The Question of Rebuilding New Orleans

[Plasticman]

Guys, this isn't a matter of just rebuilding. Historic New Orleans is a toxic cesspool and will be for years to come. It will not be rebuilt in those areas for years if at all.

And more / better levees isn't the answer. Stop building below sea level to begin with.

I heard a wise man say one time that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and expecting different results.

[jjoshjl]

^ Albert Einstein

Cheers

[Unifour]

I just wanna say that I am just sick about what has happened to one of this country's most beautiful, historic, and unique cities. There is NO other city like New Orleans in this nation or in the world. I went down there in 1995 and fell in love with it. I knew this was coming, and so did everyone else. I have a college degree in environmental managment, and we used to discuss NO all the time in class. The government knew it would happen, and that there was no way to stop it. Hurricanes will come and leave destruction in thier wake just like always, and they will hit NO again. What I want to say though, is that the reason NO is in the shape it is in is because of the government. You see, years ago they channelized the Mississippi and built flood controls, dams, and all kinds of things along the river to try to "control" it. This prevented the river from flooding and depositing new soil to build up the land south of NO. This is what made the city habitable. The river needs to allowed to deposit it's silt in the marshes south of the city to provide the buffer to the storm surges that all hurricanes bring. Instead, the river is filling up and rising, while the city sinks further. The Mississippi is trying to change course, in case you all aren't aware of this. It would take it's old course and completely flow a different direction away from NO and begin a new river bed and delta. This would dry up the port of NO and they are trying to force the river to continue it's current route. I feel they need to either let the river flood, which they could do in a controlled manner, to replenish the marshes, or they should let the river flow naturally and dig a canal for shipping, much like the Houston ship channel or the panama canal, or something similar to keep the port open.

[Unifour]

New Orleans wasn't always below sea level. It's below sea level because of what we're doing to the Mississippi. We could save it if only they would allow nature to take it's course, which it will do anyway regardless of human intervention. We aren't the boss of the planet, the planet is the boss of us

[WeNeed2Progress]

New Orleans wasn't always below sea level. It's below sea level because of what we're doing to the Mississippi. We could save it if only they would allow nature to take it's course, which it will do anyway regardless of human intervention. We aren't the boss of the planet, the planet is the boss of us 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So with everything said above, is it possible to build the necessary levees like those in the Netherlands and Scandanavia, create a proper canal and let the region operate for the most part as the environment and nature intended it to be? Personally I think it is ridiculous to lose hope in rebuilding.

At work on Saturday they were calling New Orleans a "cesspool", not worth saving and abandoning it as an archaeological site. All this just really p---ed me off so I left them so they could continue talking about "football" and other things their world revolves around. They even went on to say it was the problem of the French for building it. See what idiots I work with?

Anyway-- what can we do to revive New Orleans after it drains? Is it realistically possible to resurrect New Orleans now knowing what can be done to try and prevent future disasters? As soon as possible I am planning on taking a trip to New Orleans. I would like to help contribute and bring back their tourism industry... especially as I was planning on going there next year as I had only spent a few hours when I had gone a few years ago. I'd love to sit at Cafe' Du Monde again and have a binget and their famous coffee.

[Unifour]

If only we had the power to make it happen with the wave of a hand, we would. We all know that isn't possible, however. It takes a lot of hands to do anything, and time will tell how much gets done.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Habitat for Humanity says that the Gulf coast will their biggest project they have every untaken. I have beening working on Habitat projects for the last 18 years.

Habitat has a low overhead, so most money going to H4H will go to build houses.

If you want your money to help the people on thr Gulf coast, Habitat would be a good choice.

Support your Habitat for Humanity in your city with you time and money.

I am sure Habitat will have mass house building like they did in Charlotte, NC

They built about 10 houses in one week. On the Gulf coast it will be in the thousands. I am sure you could take a vaction on the Gulf coast, and while you are there you could help build a house.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Here is a new view of things.

September 10, 2005

By BRUCE BABBITT

Make It an Island

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/10/opinion/...agewanted=print

[tombarnes]

A rather pessimistic article from Joel Garreau in the Washington Post....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...448.html?sub=AR]

[RiversideGator]

This was an interesting article, but Joel Garreau is not correct. I would ignore him and focus on the positive and rebuilding. For every city that he can show was abandoned, I can show you hundreds of ancient cities which were not and still thrive. I think if we can build great cities in the desert, certainly we can build protections to secure NO for the future.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Louisiana set for an epic legal fight - Insurance

By Christopher Swann in Baton Rouge and Andrew Ward in Atlanta

Published: September 11 2005 22:02 {sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}} Last updated: September 11 2005 22:02

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f3301e74-22ff-11d...000e2511c8.html

[monsoon]

Yep, I predicted in the other thread that insurance companies will sue and use every trick in the book to come up from having to pay out in this disaster. Most people don't have flood insurance and homeowner's insurance specifically excludes damaging from flooding, so guess what, they are claiming it it flood damage an not paying.

But this will be nothing compared to the fight that is going to occur when the Feds see the real bill for rebuilding NO. Someone mentioned earlier the Dutch and their flood control system. The dutch spent upwards of $20B just to build a set of gates and levies to keep the North sea out of the Neatherlands. (and they don't have hurricanes to worry about) In addition they spend an additional $1/2 Billion in each year to maintain the system. Contrast this to a Administration here in the USA that refused to spend $60 million to repair and upgrade the levy system in NO.

It should be noted however that $20B is about 10 weeks of money for Iraq.

[Dale]

I just thought I'd point out that the hoped-for Bush overlay would not have prevented the flooding we took place. And also that we'll find out soon enough whether we can fight a war and rebuild NO. I suspect we can and will.

[asonj23]

We American's have indeed completed many "more daunting" tasks.

[Plasticman]

Yep, I predicted in the other thread that insurance companies will sue and use every trick in the book to come up from having to pay out in this disaster.  Most people don't have flood insurance and homeowner's insurance specifically excludes damaging from flooding, so guess what, they are claiming it it flood damage an not paying. 

But this will be nothing compared to the fight that is going to occur when the Feds see the real bill for rebuilding NO.  Someone mentioned earlier the Dutch and their flood control system.  The dutch spent upwards of $20B just to build a set of gates and levies to keep the North sea out of the Neatherlands. (and they don't have hurricanes to worry about) In addition they spend an additional $1/2 Billion in each year to maintain the system.  Contrast this to a Administration here in the USA that refused to spend $60 million to repair and upgrade the levy system in NO. 

It should be noted however that $20B is about 10 weeks of money for Iraq.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is flood damage...not even questionable. You can't tell me that without the water rushing in, the wind damage would have been anywhere near as severe. As to who pays, everyone will and that is why I don't want my tax money wasted to rebuild in an area that could easily flood again. Rebuild New Orleans, by all means, rebuild it better than before...but NOT in areas that require man-made levees to hold out water.

As stated before, insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results.

It should be noted here that OTHER administrations also had the same knowledge and did nothing as well as Congresses for the last hundred years. So if you want to throw blame, blame the entire governement, not just the hand-selected few who you may or may not like.

[RiversideGator]

It should be noted however that $20B is about 10 weeks of money for Iraq.

I really dont think the Iraq war is relevant to a discussion of rebuilding New Orleans. I thought we were leaving politics out of this thread. Either way, considering we had a $2.29 trillion (i.e. 2,290 billion dollars) budget in 2004, I think we can afford to both rebuild NO and finish putting Iraq back on its feet. As for paying for the rebuilding of homes, the trend in the past for uninsured homeowners after a natural disaster is for the Feds to provide disaster relief as a substitute for their unwise failure to obtain flood insurance.

[up+down=midtown]

so will new orleans be rebuilt as a dense modern urban town with affordable and moderate cost and high paying jobs with lot of historic architecture restored. or will it just be rebuilt to how it was before?

[bobliocatt]

Its too early to tell. First they'll have to determine how much of the flooded structures are still salvagable. It appears that the city is better off than the doom and gloomers predicted a couple of weeks ago.

[NCB]

Yes, it is much better off then originally predicted.

Can you imagine what N.O. would have been like if the eye went directly over the city?

The good thing for New Orleans is that the core of the city survived the storm fairly well.

The entire CBD is opening up soon, Most of downown sustained little damage, the french Quarter sustained little damage, the port and airport are both open, The Garden District is almost completely dry, the warehouse district(which has been booming in real-estate as of late) is dry, and the water is draining out of the very low lying areas of the city much faster then expected.

[Mikejesmike]

so will new orleans be rebuilt as a dense modern urban town with affordable and moderate cost and high paying jobs with lot of historic architecture restored. or will it just be rebuilt to how it was before?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean? New Orleans was already built for high densities. In fact it was the most densely populated major city in the south,before Miami surpassed it,and it's still built more densely than Miami. New Orleans is between 180-200 sq miles,depending on the source. Only 73.4 sq miles is built up. Which gives a density of over 6,412 per sq miles according to the 2000 census. At it's peak in 1960 there were 627,525 people,and unless I'm wrong New Orleans East wasn't built until the late 60's. So that would've meant 627,525 people would've been in a built up area of 53.4 sq miles giving an average density of 11,751 people per sq mile.

[monsoon]

[isze=small]

I really dont think the Iraq war is relevant to a discussion of rebuilding New Orleans.  I thought we were leaving politics out of this thread.  Either way, considering we had a $2.29 trillion (i.e. 2,290 billion dollars) budget in 2004, I think we can afford to both rebuild NO and finish putting Iraq back on its feet.  As for paying for the rebuilding of homes, the trend in the past for uninsured homeowners after a natural disaster is for the Feds to provide disaster relief as a substitute for their unwise failure to obtain flood insurance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are correct about the Iraq war. Keep in mind the total GDP of the USA is only $10T. If the Federal Government is spending 30% of that then we definately have some problems since tax revenue is somewhere around $1T. The fact of the matter is that every single penny spent on NO will have to be borrowed and it will continue to push up the federal debt to levels never seen before. I don't think the nation can afford it in the long run and there will be considerable resistance from the rest of the nation when they are asked to give up projects to finance reconstruction in NO. i.e. "Do we give up our light rail line to put some more bricks onto the NO levee that might fail again anyway?"

I think you are going to hear a lot of "hell nos".

[bobliocatt]

^That's quite understandable, but in the grand scheme of things, getting New Orleans back on its feet is MUCH more important to this country's economic well being than a starter light rail system in Charlotte ever will be. Given that rebuilding New Orleans isn't going to come down to a national vote, those who would like to see the city rot may be on the losing side of the battle and will get dragged along, kicking and screaming in the process.

Maybe some of these other places, who are worried about losing federal money on some of their porjects should also invest in some New Orleans real estate to make some extra money.

[monsoon]

^That's quite understandable, but in the grand scheme of things, getting New Orleans back on its feet is MUCH more important to this country's economic well being than a starter light rail system in Charlotte ever will be. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's an opinion of course and many people in the country will disagree with that statement on the economic importance of NO to the rest of the USA.

And yes it will come down to a national vote in the US congress as they have to appropriate the money to rebuild the place. What congressman is going to cut a local project so the money can go to NO? There are already charges of vast corruption and incompetance in the NO government and that throwing money at this bunch will be a very bad idea. Look at the debate that just occured over the base closings and that won't even save 10% of what it is going to take to rebuild NO.

I am not saying it is right or wrong to re-build the place, but I am saying there is going to be a huge resistance to spending this kind of money to rebuild a city that had so many problems in the first place. Given that 45% of the people that have evacuated from NO say they will never return, I don't think we will ever see an NO like the one that was washed away by the flood.

[bobliocatt]

Yes, there is already resistance on spending federal dollars but I'm pretty confident that billions will be spent on rebuilding the city. You shouldn't expect the average american to understand or agree on how big the city plays a roll in, not only producing oil, but also the transporting of manufacturing and food products produced from Ohio to Montana, down the Mississippi. This isn't an anyplace USA like Charlotte or Jacksonville, its location at the mouth of the Mississippi serves as an economic gateway to the interior portion of the country. Unless we're willing to completely change our national way of living and shipping goods, rebuilding the city will be a national priority.

I also believe that serveral questions about who will manage the money and what exactly will be done with it need to be answered before handing it out on a silver platter.

However, I do agree with you, the city won't ever be what it was, prior to the storm. The verdict is still out on whether it will regain all of its population, but most likely it will become a heavily gentrified city, with new comers moving in and the property values will soar as a result of, heavy tax breaks for businesses, improved rail transit, expressways, levees, less crime and the land rush that is on the verge of starting. Throw the cultural and historical charm aspect into it, and you've got the ingredients for something really special.

[monsoon]

Stuff like this doesn't help matters.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46361