E-85 Comes To Charlotte

[monsoon]

There is an announcement that several stations in Charlotte will begin to start selling E-85 starting on Tuesday. I think this is great and it will be selling for almost 75 cents less a gallon that gasoling is selling for right now. It's about time the largest city in the Carolinas has this alternative fuel. Only downside if you need a Flex Fuel vehicle to burn it but that won't be a problem for many in Charlotte as many American cars will use this fuel. Oddly, non of the Japanese engines can.

Ethanol to the Rescue

[reverbandwhiskey]

I wouldn't say "many" cars.

Find out if yours can:

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

Let us not also forget that ethanol really isn't that great of a fuel. It is only cheaper due to massive gov't subsidies, is more exensive to produce and refine than gasoline, and is a net energy loser. It actually takes more energy to produce ethanol than it is capable of producing. Just like the empty promise of hydrogen powered cars, it is merely shifting the pollution, waste, and energy consumption away from the public eye.

You will also get fewer miles per gallon when using E85.

Sadly Ethanol is still just a bloated government pork project that has shown very little promise. Once you remove the massive subsidies, factor in the lower fuel efficiency, and the net-loss of energy in producing it, ethanol is nothing more than a waste of money and energy.

[monsoon]

Not exactly correct. Unlike petroleum based fuels, E85 does not add a net amount of CO2 to the atmosphere. When the corn is grown to make the fuel, it removes CO2 in the process.

It is a great alternative to buring arab owned oil. And there is wide disagreement as to if it is a net loser of energy or not. These studies are like the ones that also say that it is better to build highways instead of trains because they carry more people. For exampe, the studies fail to mention the by products of E85 can then be used to feed animals. Since the grain is going to be grown anyway to feed the animals, it is not a net loser.

In comparison oil which is also heavily subsidized, is always a net loser.

E85 is good for the environment and good for the American economy.

[parkave231]

Interesting...I went to the "find if your car can use ethanol" website, and mine wasn't listed. (I drive a 2002 Cadillac Sedan deVille.)

However, here's what my owner manual says:

"Gasolines containing oxygenates, such as ethers and

ethanol, and reformulated gasolines may be available in

your area to contribute to clean air. General Motors

recommends that you use these gasolines, particularly if

they comply with the specifications described earlier." (emphasis added)

Now, it specifically says not to use fuels containing methanol, and the "specifications described earlier" deal with using at least 87 octane and using fuel that meets specifications developed by the American Automobile Manufacturers Association.......are there different types of ethanol, such that E-85 wouldn't work but E-something else would?

Matt

[reverbandwhiskey]

The majority of our oil does not actually come from Arab nations.

Only two of the top ten oil producing nations are Arab nations. You have to remember that OPEC is not just a collection of Middle Eastern Nations.

Here is top ten oil producing countries ats of this spring.

1. Saudi Arabia

2. Russia

3. USA

4. Iran

5. China

6. Norway

7. Mexico

8. Venezuela

9. United Kingdom

12. Nigeria

Russia is expected to pass Saudi Arabia by the end of the decade.

"And there is wide disagreement as to if it is a net loser of energy or not."

Actually there really isn't. You take away the comapnies who are making a fortune putting a product that isn't ready for public consumption and the vast majority of research shows that ethanol takes more energy to produce than it gives during combustion.

[monsoon]

Thanks for the lesson on Opec, but I already knew all of that and I didn't say that a majority of our oil came from the Arabs, but enough comes from there to make the USA do a lot of stupid things to keep the flow going.

Maybe you missed the point that the grain is going to be grown anyway. A huge amount of the grain grown in this country goes to feed animals that will later be slaughtered for human consumption. The leftovers from ethanol production (once the alcohol is distilled off) can be converted to animal feed. There is no net loss of energy when you look at the entire picture.

During WWII my grandfather ran his truck and tractor off of moonshine when gasoline was rationed and he could not buy any. It wasn't a net loss for him.

....

parkave231, your car can burn E10, not E85.

[ilektronik]

the E85 site isn't updated, where are they selling E85 in the Charlotte area??

[monsoon]

It is being sold on Statesville Rd near Sunset, on E. Woodlawn, and some place down in Pineville.

We filled up on a tank of it last night. It's 50 cents/gallon cheaper than regular, so its quit a cost savings on a tank of gas. Also there are no fumes from the fillup. The sign for it claims it is 105 Octane.

We could tell no difference in the running of the vehicle except the mileage computer says it was getting about 1.5 better average MPG.

[dubone]

1.5 meaning an extra mile and a half per gallon or 50% better mileage?

it is actually a bit exciting that we finally have expensive gas, as it means that there will be much more lifestyle change, support for conservation technology, and more advanced fuels like e-85 and biodiesel.

[DigitalSky]

1.5 meaning an extra mile and a half per gallon or 50% better mileage? 

it is actually a bit exciting that we finally have expensive gas, as it means that there will be much more lifestyle change, support for conservation technology, and more advanced fuels like e-85 and biodiesel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's true, it could have a positive effect

[BRONX BOY]

It is being sold on Statesville Rd near Sunset, on E. Woodlawn, and some place down in Pineville.   

We filled up on a tank of it last night.  It's 50 cents/gallon cheaper than regular, so its quit a cost savings on a tank of gas.  Also there are no fumes from the fillup.  The sign for it claims it is 105 Octane. 

We could tell no difference in the running of the vehicle except the mileage computer says it was getting about 1.5 better average MPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Forgive me for not knowing this, but is this E-85 gas something that's being targeted to the major cities in the US? Because I never have heard or seen that in NY. Again, I wouldn't know it if it jumped out and bit me. I usually just go to the pump and fill up on premium, because my wife says anything less than that is "cheap gas" Now with these high gas prices,she welcomes the lower grades.

This situation is really sad...people are sooooooo grimey here in NY. When the gas prices shot up after Katrina, alot of gas stations in the BX where claiming to have no regular gas or mid-grade gas....They were essentially forcing you to buy the most expensive grade they had. It was awful

[monsoon]

E85 is a mixture of 15% Gasoline, and 85% ethanol made from fermenting corn and/or other starchy plants here in the USA. The byproducts are made into animal feed. It's widely available in parts of the midwest. Its just starting to show up here in the South. Not all cars can burn this mixture, but many can.

Dubone, that was an increase of 1.5MPG, not 50%. Sorry for not being more clear on that.

[BRONX BOY]

E85 is a mixture of 15% Gasoline, and 85% ethanol made from fermenting corn and/or other starchy plants here in the USA.  The byproducts are made into animal feed.  It's widely available in parts of the midwest. Its just starting to show up here in the South.  Not all cars can burn this mixture, but many can. 

Dubone, that was an increase of 1.5MPG, not 50%.  Sorry for not being more clear on that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info.... You learn something new everyday

[Miesian Corners]

Filled-up on Saturday on Woodlawn Rd with E-85. My Ranger is one of only two Ford vehicles made (in 2003) that can use it. I paid $2.70 a gallon and cannot tell a difference in the way the truck runs. I'm lucky, though. I don't live far from the gas station that sells it. Not worth it to drive all the way across the city to fill up.

[dubone]

do they sell shots of ethanol for the SUV drivers to calm their nerves after paying 50 bucks to fill up?

[monsoon]

do they sell shots of ethanol for the SUV drivers to calm their nerves after paying 50 bucks to fill up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well at the gas station near Sunset, everyone in line was buying 2 40s to drink out back behind the building.

[Miesian Corners]

Isn't that always the case at Sunset?

[monsoon]

Unlike the United States, Brazil stuck with its alternative fuel program that was started in the 70s and most cars sold there now are flex fuel vehicles that can run on pure ethanol. The nation now only imports about 15% of its energy needs as oil compared to about 60-70% in the 1970s. The ethanol produced there equates to 460 million barrels of oil.

This is proof that ethanol is a viable alternative to oil for running cars.

[Miesian Corners]

I am very happy using E85. Cheaper, my truck runs more smoothly, and gets better mileage. I am a convert. BTW, the Sunoco on Woodlawn and I-77 also sells E10.

[monsoon]

There are now two new stations in the Charlotte area that will begin selling Bio-Diesel. This is great news as it is the first time it has been available here to retail customers. The stations will also sell E85 & E10. One will be located in South Charlotte near the SC border on Johnson Rd. and the other in Iredell county serving the Northern part of the metro.

[dubone]

I watched some Discovery Channel program, in which they showed a guy with an apparatus in his garage to convert cooking oil to biodiesel. There were no toxics used in the process, and the outputs of the process were glycerin and biodiesel (or was it lye and biodiesel). The glycerin (or lye, sorry for not remembering that detail), could then be sold for soaps, and the biodiesel could be used for the car and an electric generator.

That guy basically had free energy from the restaurant waste.

I also had the impression that you could safely breathe in the exhaust because of the lack of toxics (could that be true?).

[monsoon]

I also had the impression that you could safely breathe in the exhaust because of the lack of toxics (could that be true?).

Looks as if there is still carbon monoxide in the exhaust, though substantially reduced. But this would be a reason not to breath the exhaust.

There are none of the the sulfer oxides that cause acid rain.

Unburned hydrocarbons which I believe causes smog and ozone pollution are almost eliminated too.

BioDiesel can be made from peanuts. And one of the byproducts is a protein chip that can be fed to live stock.

[dubone]

It is hard believe that there is a way to make fuel without burying it under a desert for millions of years.