Did Bush and the Federal Govt Fail New Orleans

[RiverwoodCLT]

Yeah, I saw what happened at the Superdome--15,000 evacuated there, many of whom would have died in the storm.

How many people actually died at the Dome?

The Guard says 2--one suicide, and one man beaten to death.

The evacuation to the Dome saved thousands.  It was terrible, but they're alive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The last figure I saw was 10 dead in Dome.

[Ruso]

Ah, yes...  everything is a conspiracy.  Michael Moore, is that you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is Michael Moore here? LOL

I dont think it would be safe for him, you know, a threat to the system.

[satalac]

Ah, yes...  everything is a conspiracy.  Michael Moore, is that you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ah, yes.....every liberal is michael moore. hardline conservative who has nothing else to say, is that you? and about you saying that all the liberals are blaming just bush, i would go back and read all of the posts. the blame has been on local and federal (as it should be), but you keep saying that bush wasn't in charge of disaster relief. well i guess when you come to think of it, bush really isn't in charge.......

[RiversideGator]

Looks like the American public isnt blaming Bush for the disaster:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/...=1094262&page=1

It appears that people who didnt like Bush before still dont like Bush but no one has been turned against Bush. Another missed opportunity for liberals for shameless self-promotion.

[sleepy]

Looks like the American public isnt blaming Bush for the disaster:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/...=1094262&page=1

It appears that people who didnt like Bush before still dont like Bush but no one has been turned against Bush.  Another missed opportunity for liberals for shameless self-promotion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wonder how many of the 1,000,000 evacuees were included in the poll.

Regardless of who blames Bush for the disaster, his presidential job performancel numbers are at their lowest:

44% approve

54% disapprove

21% strongly approve

41% strongly disapprove

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

[derrickskugler]

There ya go, Riverside. Hit them with facts and they spin. Of course the evacuees are going to blame Bush. They're the ones who blamed him for the position they were in in their lives BEFORE the storm.

What percentage of the evacuees voted Democrat in the last election, do you think? 90%? 95%? They didn't like him before, they're not going to like him now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... this is going to come back to bite the Dems in the butt... they'd politicize their own mother's funeral if they thought it would gain them 2 votes. Unbelievable.

[vdogg]

Looks like the American public isnt blaming Bush for the disaster:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/...=1094262&page=1

It appears that people who didnt like Bush before still dont like Bush but no one has been turned against Bush.  Another missed opportunity for liberals for shameless self-promotion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While we're picking and choosing numbers. (below figures taken from above linked article)

"The most critical views cross jurisdictions: Two-thirds in this ABC News/Washington Post poll say the federal government should have been better prepared to deal with a storm this size, and three-quarters say state and local governments in the affected areas likewise were insufficiently prepared."

Views of Hurricane Response

Federal government adequately prepared? 31% 67%

State/local government adequately prepared? 24 75

Blame Bush? 44 55

The condemnation is pretty much universal. And while more blame the state and local

government it is fairly apparent that the majority of Americans also believes

the federal government (buck stops with Bush) failed miserably as well.

At the very least the director of Fema should be fired because of plain incompetence and lack of experience to do the job. The mayor and the governor will meet their own fates come election time. What we have just witnessed is a massive failure of government on all levels, and that scares a lot of people, democrat and republican

alike.

[monsoon]

Bush was in Baton Rouge today and after kissing a little Black boy on the head he had the following to say.

"Laura and I come bad down to uhhhh [pause while he figures out where he is] Louisiana and we are going over to Mississippi, let the good people of this region know there's a lot of work to be done. [pause], the first mission of course is to save lives, and uhhhh, so long as there is any life in danger, we've got work to do, and we are going to continue to save lives"

GW Bush words of the day for the hurricane Katrina victims and rest of the nation.

Later his dad, the former President Bush, after kissing a different Black boy on the head, said he didn't like the criticism lobbied at his boy. He said however it was like a football game, you have to blame someone for the loss.

................

17 years of Bushs in the White House and counting.

[vdogg]

17 years of Bushs in the White House and counting.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never thought of it that way. That's scary.

[RiverwoodCLT]

All the top people working this disaster for the Govt. were choosen by GW Bush. If they can't do the job, ask why were they there in the first place. Like Harry Truman said, "the buck stops here".

It is going to be interesting how history looks at this disaster. By then they will have all the facts on whats going on. There will be no place to hide.

Bush is not a take charge type, he does not know or want take charge as soon as

a disaster occures, he does nothing. Is he calling dad on what to do? After awhile he gets going. This is not very good for us in this country.

I do not blame Bush for the hurricane, or for the city and state short comings.

I blame Bush for not taking action until Thursday. After he got going, things started to happen. We are taking about 2 days, what was he doing?

Now, is Bush going to take the lead, to fix the federal response for disasters?

Need fed probe into crisis

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/...9p-293306c.html

[Ruso]

Bush was in Baton Rouge  today and after kissing a little Black boy on the head he had the following to say. 

"Laura and I come bad down to uhhhh [pause while he figures out where he is]  Louisiana and we are going over to Mississippi,  let the good people of this region know there's a lot of work to be done.  [pause],  the first mission of course is to save lives, and uhhhh,  so long as there is any life in danger, we've got work to do, and we are going to continue to save lives"

GW Bush words of the day for the hurricane Katrina victims and rest of the nation.   

Later his dad, the former President Bush, after kissing a different Black boy on the head, said he didn't like the criticism lobbied at his boy.  He said however it was like a football game, you have to blame someone for the loss.   

................

17 years of Bushs in the White House and counting.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, Bush!, always inspiring so many with his enlightened words. I hope the Bush "royalty" will not last any longer. Lets see if anyone learns from earlier mistakes.

[NCB]

I supported Bush VERY STRONGELY..... before Katrina.

Now dont get me wrong, he isnt the only person to "blame" for the shortcoming of help along the gulf coast....

FEMA is a joke...Michael Brown should be fired

Michael Chertoff doesnt know what the hell he is doing

Kathleen Blanco could have done a better job with her own state

But Bush is the leader of this country, he should have recognized that Louisiana produces 23%-25% of the country's oil, that the Port of SE Louisiana is the busiest and largest port in the country, and that New Orleans still had thousands of residents that needed help after the storm had passed. It should not have taken him 4-6 days before he sent REAL help in terms of millitary and supplies.

Blame whoever you want..

You can say New Orleans didnt get help because of Bush or Chertoff

You can play the race card(New Orleans is 66% black..I do think that had something to do with it)

You can even say it was the North vs the South(I really think this was a factor)

Everyone has their opinion on this, but I think we all agree on one thing...this shouldnt have happened...New Orleans shouldve gotten help right after the storm....not 4-6 days later.

[Ruso]

I supported Bush VERY STRONGELY..... before Katrina.

Now dont get me wrong, he isnt the only person to "blame" for the shortcoming of help along the gulf coast....

FEMA is a joke...Michael Brown should be fired

Michael Chertoff doesnt know what the hell he is doing

Kathleen Blanco could have done a better job with her own state

But Bush is the leader of this country, he should have recognized that Louisiana produces 23%-25% of the country's oil, that the Port of SE Louisiana is the busiest and largest port in the country, and that New Orleans still had thousands of residents that needed help after the storm had passed. It should not have taken him 4-6 days before he sent REAL help in terms of millitary and supplies.

Blame whoever you want..

You can say New Orleans didnt get help because of Bush or Chertoff

You can play the race card(New Orleans is 66% black..I do think that had something to do with it)

You can say it was the North vs the South(I really think this was a factor)

Everyone has their opinion on this, but I think we all agree on one thing...this shouldnt have happened...New Orleans shouldve gotten helpe right after the storm....not 4-5 days later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont think it is about blaming, but about accepting responsabilities. Of course it was not GW Bush's fault, but he did not do what he was supposed to.

[Ruso]

Sorry for the double-post, but just forgot this:

As it is not about blaming the ones you disagree with, it is essential to learn from their mistakes. If one criticizes Bush is not for mere hatred, but because of a real desire to learn "from" his unfortunate example.

[Viper]

And what exatly was he supposed to do?

Emergency management is FEMA's job, not his.

Take a look at this and then tell me how Bush should have handled it differently.

The Red Cross is not being allowed into New Orleans by the National Guard

(Source: Red Cross website, Katrina FAQ. http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,...24,00.html#4524)

and

the U.S. Forest Service offered water-tanker aircraft to help douse the fires in New Orleans, but they needed FEMA to authorize it and FEMA couldn't get its act together enough to do so

(Source: Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, transcript available at http://www.newschannel6.tv/news/def...hownews&id=8695)

and

they dragged their feet on offers from Amtrak, as well

(Source: Senator Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, transcript available at http://www.newschannel6.tv/news/def...hownews&id=8695)

and

Phoenix, Arizona sent their Fire Department's Urban Search and Rescue team, which went to Oklahoma City after the bombing there, and to NYC after 9/11 but they were kept out of New Orleans by the National Guard

(Source: Arizona Daily Sun, http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/n...?storyID=114689 and http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...na-local02.html)

and

Chicago offered more than a hundred police officers, three dozen firefighters, more than 140 health department workers, squad cars, two boats and other equipment but all FEMA has accepted is a single tanker truck of gas

(Source: Mayor Richard Daley, quoted in the Chicago Tribune, http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ll=chi-news-hed)

and

South Dakota found a team of people matching qualifications requested by a sheriff in LaFourche parish but need permission from FEMA to send them in, and haven't gotten it

(Source: The Argus Leader, http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbc.../509030317/1001)

and

Utah offered to take a thousand refugees and sent a plane down full of supplies, but thinks it's unlikely they'll be allowed to transport anyone back, in part because they haven't been able to find anyone to ask for permission and aren't even sure if it's the governor's office or FEMA they should ask

(Source: CBS-affiliated KUTV news of Salt Lake City, http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_245191716.html)

and

the Sheriff's Department in Loudon County, Virginia sent two dozen volunteer emergency personnel in response to an SOS call from the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Department near New Orleans, but three hours into their drive found out they would have to turn back because government officials hadn't given approval to go in

(Source: NBC news, http://www.nbc4.com/news/4932312/detail.html)

and

a group of doctors with experience in violence-racked international missions told FEMA on Wednesday morning that they were eager to send a team to hard-hit areas. FEMA passed them to the Red Cross, which referred them back to FEMA

(Source: The Washington Post, September 3, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5090202363.html)

and

the American Ambulance Association wanted to send 300 emergency vehicles from Florida to the flood zone; they were told to get permission from the General Services Administration, and the GSA said they had to have FEMA ask for it, and "as a result they weren't sent." (Source: former Senator John Breaux, quoted in the Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...90301653_4.html)

and

the military says that they have all kinds of supplies but can't send them without an official request from FEMA

(Source: Newhouse News Service, http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs....94/1077/NEWS01).

Three "state and federal officials" are saying that this is all because Louisiana didn't ask for help. A Bush official said that as of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency. (Source: Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...090301680.html). Now, personally, I would have thought that Blanco begging for help on national TV would constitute asking for help. But for those who really need their i's dotted and their t's crossed, Blanco declared a state of emergency on August 26th. (Source: the Louisiana state website, http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Rele...tail.asp?id=973) Also, she sent a detailed request for specific help to President Bush on August 28th (Source: the Louisiana state website, http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%2...f%20Request.pdf)

Meanwhile, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson offered Blanco help from the NM National Guard on Sunday (the day before the hurricane hit), and Blanco accepted, but the paperwork needed to get the troops out didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.

(Source: AP, http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto..._national_guard)

And there is a stockpile of firefighter gear kept by FEMA that hasn't been released because the governors of Mississippi and Louisiana haven't specifically requested it.

(Source: CNN, http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/...gear/index.html)

And there is an entire mobile hospital, designed and equipped specifically for disaster relief, sitting in Mississippi waiting to be allowed in. (Source: AP, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050904...atrina_health_1)

And according to Jefferson Parish President Broussard -- well, I will just quote him directly: "We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA -- we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel." Yesterday -- yesterday -- FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines." Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America -- American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis." (Source: Jefferson Parish President Broussard on Meet the Press, transcript at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/)

And this is not even close to a comprehensive list.

[monsoon]

Viper it's Bush's fault. Fema is headed by a political appointee of his. The guy is not qualified for the job but Bush needed to pay him back for his support. Fema is now also a branch of Homeland Security. Though Bush said he would shrink government, he has made it larger in part by creating this huge new branch that I have not seen do anything to make the USA more secure.

Likewise, the real help that is coming in now is from the US Military. While tens of thousands were begging for water, a Marine ship sat off shore that had the ability to make 100,000 gallons of fresh water/day. There are endless examples of where the US Military could have saved many lives if they had only been called in there early. But Bush was on vacation playing golf and nobody else has the authority.

Like the CIA was blamed, instead of Bush, for starting an unnecessary war in Iraq (no WMDs and no clear and immediate danger to the USA) Fema is going to become the scapegoat that Bush will use to shirk responsibility for the debacle and tragedy in New Orleans. Bush's political spin masters are working overtime to make this happen. And as a bonus, Bush and his Republican friends will have the nails to finally close the coffin holding Fema since they have wanted to kill it since it was created. Why spend tax money helping ordinary Americans? It isn't the Republican way. Big business can do it instead.

Oh and a quick side note. They have wasted no time in already awarding several large contracts to Haliburtan in Mississippi. These people are thieves who don't care about anyone but themselves.

[Gusterfell]

Viper it's Bush's fault.  Fema is headed by a political appointee of his.  The guy is not qualified for the job but Bush needed to pay him back for his support.  Fema is now also a branch of Homeland Security.  Though Bush said he would shrink government, he has made it larger in part by creating this huge new branch that I have not seen do anything to make the USA more secure. 

Indeed. Viper's quote strengthens the case that Bush deserves blame. Both FEMA and the National Guard are under his direct oversight. Their failures are his failures.

And if anyone doubts that Michael Brown, head of FEMA, is unqualified, remember that his previous career was in managing horse shows, of all things. He was fired from that position for incompetence.

Oh and a quick side note.  They have wasted no time in already awarding several large contracts to Haliburtan in Mississippi.  These people are thieves who don't care about anyone but themselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now we know what was going on behind closed doors while New Orleans starved.

[Ruso]

Viper it's Bush's fault.  Fema is headed by a political appointee of his.  The guy is not qualified for the job but Bush needed to pay him back for his support.  Fema is now also a branch of Homeland Security.  Though Bush said he would shrink government, he has made it larger in part by creating this huge new branch that I have not seen do anything to make the USA more secure. 

Likewise, the real help that is coming in now is from the US Military.  While tens of thousands were begging for water, a Marine ship sat off shore that had the ability to make 100,000 gallons of fresh water/day.  There are endless examples of where the US Military could have saved many lives if they had only been called in there early.  But Bush was on vacation playing golf and nobody else has the authority.

Like the CIA was blamed, instead of Bush, for starting an unnecessary war in Iraq (no WMDs and no clear and immediate danger to the USA)  Fema is going to become the scapegoat that Bush will use to shirk responsibility for the debacle and tragedy in New Orleans.  Bush's political spin masters are working overtime to make this happen.  And as a bonus, Bush and his Republican friends will have the nails to finally close the coffin holding Fema since they have wanted to kill it since it was created.  Why spend tax money helping ordinary Americans?  It isn't the Republican way.  Big business can do it instead. 

Oh and a quick side note.  They have wasted no time in already awarding several large contracts to Haliburtan in Mississippi.  These people are thieves who don't care about anyone but themselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen to that

[Viper]

Would you listen to all that spin?

Read his bio and then try and blast him like that again.

http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

[Ruso]

Although, I do not know if you could label it as "Bush's fault". It was not his fault the huricane came, it was not his fault many people could not get out. Yet, he could have done much more. PLEASE, let this be a lesson to half of the USA!!!!

[PghUSA]

Indeed.

[Gusterfell]

Would you listen to all that spin? 

Read his bio and then try and blast him like that again.

http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you really think his official FEMA bio is going to include his career failures? In any case, I concede that my attack was a little below the belt.

I find this line from Brown's bio rather interesting:

In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA

[Viper]

To that , I fully agree but my point is that before this, he was doing a commendable job and none of you complained once. Never brought up any horse ranch background until it was convenient and gave a shot at jabbing Bush.

The guy is not qualified for the job

He was until last week it would seem.

[Gusterfell]

Out of curiosity, Viper, what do you think should be the consequences for Brown? Should he lose his job?

[PghUSA]

Guster how many hundreds of school busses and NO public transit busses are parked underwater while the carless in New Orleans were left to suffer instead of being bussed out, maybe Nagin and Blanco should lose their jobs?

Why don't we start finding jobs for those affected and stop finding out who's fault it is. I understand the temptation to blame those in charge, but both Dems and Republicans are equally blamable here, time to fix things just MHO.