Wake Co. Justice Center

[capitalapts]

I remember someone mentioning that the courthouse is due for expansion, and that a 10-story+ building is planned. Am I having an acid flashback or is this the case? If so, where is the building going to go?

Thanks!

[Raleighmark]

I remember someone mentioning that the courthouse is due for expansion, and that a 10-story+ building is planned.  Am I having an acid flashback or is this the case?  If so, where is the building going to go? 

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it will go where the parking deck is just north of the wake county jail in the block bounded by McDowell, Martin, Salisbury, and Davie.

[Flash]

There were some nice models done of this:

[Raleighmark]

Nice models, thanks for sharing.

I can't believe they want to leave the northwest corner of the block (the one that overlooks Nash Square, one of only two remaining Squares from the original plan) with a PARKING deck. Man, what a sweet site for a condo tower.

[orulz]

Nash Square gets no love. It's a pity, but it probably has something to do with being between Dawson and Mcdowell. At least this courthouse only shares a corner with Nash, and there's still plenty of underutilized land in the vicinity.

I'm not sure I like how the design of this building works. The small, existing 6-story structure (the unadorned box) on the northeast corner of the block doesn't integrate very well with the new, possibly art-deco building. If they were architecturally treated as seperate buildings then it might be OK but it looks like they're trying to pass them off as two parts of the same structure which just looks odd.

Oh well, it's not hideous and it's another building where a parking deck used to be. This is a good thing.

[capitalapts]

Nice models, thanks for sharing.

I can't believe they want to leave the northwest corner of the block (the one that overlooks Nash Square, one of only two remaining Squares from the original plan) with a PARKING deck. Man, what a sweet site for a condo tower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AMEN. At least half of the square is mostly fronted by storefront-type commercial space (along Martin, even though the Berkeley Cafe is the only restaurant on the square I believe). The quarter facing the west side of the square is fronted by that nice-looking condo-I'd love to live there in a place overlooking the park!

The police station is god-awful ugly, as is that fountain and brick round thingy with no windows on the north...and on the east, it would be great if N&O redid its HQ fronting the square.

Thanks for posting those pictures, Flash.

[capitalapts]

About the building itself-

as Orulz alluded to, the building itself doesn't look too bad, but the way they stuck it behind that existing building on the northeast part of the block makes it appear like it doesn't have a front. Isn't that the building with the 60's architecture with those square panels in different shades of blue? I kinda like that building

You know what? 50 (or less) years from now, the city is going to be kicking itself in the butt for not making more of these parking structures below-ground. As we've often lamented, WAY too much downtown real estate is occupied by above-ground parking structures, or worse yet, entire city blocks of surface parking (Edenton/Jones & Person/Blount/Wilmington).

[orulz]

You know what?  50 (or less) years from now, the city is going to be kicking itself in the butt for not making more of these parking structures below-ground.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Parking decks, particularly free-standing parking decks, probably don't even have a lifespan of 50 years. They're also not too expensive to construct, so when the space is needed for further vertical development it's not too big of a deal to just tear one out and build on the same space. I imagine that once that gets underway, parking structures will go in beneath these taller buildings that goes up.

Regarding the courthouse annex, it's hard to tell whether that parking deck is integrated into the structure of the building or whether it's a free-standing structure that could be removed at a later date.

[49er]

Just to add my 2cents...

Dont take these illustrations as literal. These are preliminary drawings done to indicate massing of the structure and give the county an idea of what the stacking of the building will be, i.e. where things will go on what floors.

The NCSU design study thats been talked about in the paper will hopefully yield some great ideas as to where the N&O headquarters should go and how the county will address parking needs. The design students are studying a vast array of arrangements. One of the first criticisms of the county renderings above is what has been noted here...the fact that an old garage at martin and salisbury will be leveled and replaced with...another garage!

[Rufus]

On the 6 o'clock news tonight, WRAL stated that Wake County is making plans for anew courthouse expansion project across the street from the present-day courthouse. The story is not on their website, so does anyone have any more info on this project and the News and Observer project I have been hearing about?

[dmccall]

Here's the courthouse story. I don't have info on the N&O.

http://www.wral.com/news/4941952/detail.html

[orulz]

I might just scream if the courthouse ends up anything like that model. Having a parking deck facing Nash Square like that is an insult. But I think that photos of that model have been circulating for a while, and the word is that it's not an actual design or anything; it's just designed to show the scale of the building.

[dmccall]

Yeah, just what the downtown needs, architecturally...another beige cube.

[Jones_]

At an urban design forum, around the time CC sites were being discussed, it was mentioned that the N&O needed to reorient its loading docks to allow Martin St to become two-way. What was mentioned was that a new building would rise in the center of their property with things configured so that all the trucks stayed off street. There was no mention of how big this building would be, though my guess is not over 6 stories or so.

Personally I have always thought that the N&O should take the industrial printing operation out to the old Harris Wholesale site and leave only reporters and office personnel downtown with "N&O" splashed on the side of some building. HW always complained about there not being a traffic signal there but at 4am when the N&O trucks are rolling, that hardly matters. The land out there is cheap compared to downtown and the building is large enough to expand quite a bit. Much of the downtown land could be redeveloped into something other than a light industrial operation right in the middle of the city.

[Tayfromcarolina]

This beige cube is very much needed. Have you ever been to the courthouse for anything? It is a broken down building. The elevators take ages to get to where you are. The layout is confusing and uninspired. And it is just way to small to accomodate a county with a population swiftly approaching a million residents.

This project should be fast tracked, the quicker the better. The less chances a judge or lawyer or citizen gets of getting trapped in those archaic elevators. I have heard the stories, and they aren't pretty.

[orulz]

Absolutely, we need a new courthouse.

We do not need an uninteresting beige cube with a parking deck facing Nash Square. We don't need a dead zone that huge on McDowell Street. Like I said, the "beige cube" is not even a real design for the new courthouse. It was designed to demonstrate the building's size/massing.

[Raleighmark]

Seems like (although I can

[Subway Scoundrel]

At an urban design forum, around the time CC sites were being discussed, it was mentioned that the N&O needed to reorient its loading docks to allow Martin St to become two-way. What was mentioned was that a new building would rise in the center of their property with things configured so that all the trucks stayed off street. There was no mention of how big this building would be, though my guess is not over 6 stories or so.

Personally I have always thought that the N&O should take the industrial printing operation out to the old Harris Wholesale site and leave only reporters and office personnel downtown with "N&O" splashed on the side of some building. HW always complained about there not being a traffic signal there but at 4am when the N&O trucks are rolling, that hardly matters. The land out there is cheap compared to downtown and the building is large enough to expand quite a bit. Much of the downtown land could be redeveloped into something other than a light industrial operation right in the middle of the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find the idea of moving printing operations to the Harris location. interesting. Although, I would assume if they move them, they will move them farther away, particularly east of Raleigh like Clayton or far side of Garner. I think they had this proposal for Garner one time before. One, for the cost savings. The Harris property has a $9M price tag and my guess it could be cheaper if you go further away. The 2nd reason would be since it is an eastern NC paper (Triangle to east NC), it would help on delivery and deadline times. But, what do I know??

I will comment on the N&O moving the operations in the first place. I like the idea of having some industrial base downtown, especially now that Dillon is moving. I know they probably want to do something, but there is something

[richthofen]

Anyone have an idea of what office building it is they might build on the site of? Hopefully it's not anything historic or interesting architecturally...

[Raleighmark]

Two buildings and a parking structure would come down.

The 1926 Lawyers building seen below

And this (yuck) built in 1960. Note the Lawyers building to the left

[orulz]

Two buildings and a parking structure would come down.

The 1926 Lawyers building seen below

And this (yuck) built in 1960. Note the Lawyers building to the left

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It'd be nice if neither of those buildings had to come down, honestly. While you may say "yuck" about the The 1960 building today, what will people think about it 30 years from now? 50? Remember that people were saying "Yuck" abut old mills and warehouses 30 years ago. By tearing something down just because it doesn't appeal to your tastes right now you're throwing away Raleigh's chance to have a varied and diverse architectural history.

Personally, I think that building is quirky and kind of neat.

[Subway Scoundrel]

It'd be nice if neither of those buildings had to come down, honestly. While you may say "yuck" about the The 1960 building today, what will people think about it 30 years from now? 50? Remember that people were saying "Yuck" abut old mills and warehouses 30 years ago. By tearing something down just because it doesn't appeal to your tastes right now you're throwing away Raleigh's chance to have a varied and diverse architectural history.

Personally, I think that building is quirky and kind of neat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and I am going to show what an old fart I am but the "Yuck" building is a pretty famous bulding, especially the digital clock out front. It is an old S&L building. That clock was here when I moved here in 1971 as a kid and has always worked. I do hate to see the older buiding go.

[Raleighmark]

More specifically I think it was Raleigh Federal Savings & Loan. I

[dmccall]

Wasn't Raleigh Federal bought by Centura?

That building is ugly. It's our little piece of the middle east. But I agree...keep it. The thing that is awful about Charlotte's downtown is that they've torn down just about every building built before 1970.

[MR-2]

I hate to see the 1920 building go. That thing looks really charming and urban. The 1960 one I wouldn't miss. Much as I hate to destory architectural history like it, sometimes buildings are universally lacking in taste.

Now, if the building that'll replace it is worse, that could be an issue.