Charlotte's MSA too small?

[Rufus]

Charlotte, as we all know, has grown exponentially in its city proper. Its metro has grown too, but what baffles me is that there are two different metro populations that I have gotten. On Emporis, and many other sites, it lists Charlotte's metro just above 2 million, but here I see people placing its metro pop. at about 1.5 million. So, what is the real metro pop. or is there something i don't know?

[teshadoh]

Charlotte, as we all know, has grown exponentially in its city proper.  Its metro has grown too, but what baffles me is that there are two different metro populations that I have gotten.  On Emporis, and many other sites, it lists Charlotte's metro just above 2 million, but here I see people placing its metro pop. at about 1.5 million.  So, what is the real metro pop. or is there something i don't know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 2 million + metro is probably CSA & the 1.5 million metro is probably MSA.

16740 Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC Metropolitan Statistical Area

16740 37007 Anson County, NC

16740 37025 Cabarrus County, NC

16740 37071 Gaston County, NC

16740 37119 Mecklenburg County, NC

16740 37179 Union County, NC

16740 45091 York County, SC

172 Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC Combined Statistical Area

172 10620 Albemarle, NC Micropolitan Statistical Area

172 16740 Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord, NC-SC Metropolitan Statistical Area

172 16900 Chester, SC Micropolitan Statistical Area

172 29580 Lancaster, SC Micropolitan Statistical Area

172 30740 Lincolnton, NC Micropolitan Statistical Area

172 41580 Salisbury, NC Micropolitan Statistical Area

172 43140 Shelby, NC Micropolitan Statistical Area

172 44380 Statesville-Mooresville, NC Micropolitan Statistical Area

[DigitalSky]

[atlrvr]

Actually, that map is the old MSA boudaries before 2001 change by the OBM........Rowan and Lincoln counties are now gone, but Anson is now included.....so Charlotte actually has a lower MSA pop that they did in the 2000 census......if we still had the old defintions as this map shows our MSA would be about 1.7M.....I suspect that we will eventually pick them back up, and eventually Iredell and Lancaster as well.

[DigitalSky]

Actually, that map is the old MSA boudaries before 2001 change by the OBM........Rowan and Lincoln counties are now gone, but Anson is now included.....so Charlotte actually has a lower MSA pop that they did in the 2000 census......if we still had the old defintions as this map shows our MSA would be about 1.7M.....I suspect that we will eventually pick them back up, and eventually Iredell and Lancaster as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah it's from the old Mappoint. i have the newer Mappoint on my other computer which i'll try to get the image up later

[teshadoh]

I made a map before - here is one, yellow border is CSA & the MSA & micropolitan areas included.

[A2]

Note: Split off to its own topic

Yes.

[A2]

The observer article indicated that local officials were completely surprised at the explosive growth in the express service to Huntersville.  I think they will be completely surprised at the ridership on the rail line.  When they sent the demo line through here than 10 years ago (yes it has been that long now) the train was standing room only and people were turned away. 

Personally I think they should have built the North line first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree MB.

This kind of reminds me of the whole 485 debacle. I think when the state was conducting studies, the south was justified by its population at that time, and thus construction was started on the South line. Now we have a huge surge in pop north of the city, which, IMO, will grow 2x faster than south Mecklenburg. I think the timetables of projects needs to be sped up considerably, but I know that will never happen since the state is essentially broke.

A2

[monsoon]

A2, to answer your earlier question.

Most of the people who live in Iredell, work in Iredell. Most people work in the Statesville area. Little known to most Charlotteans, there are endless numbers of manufacturing plants located around northern Mooresville, Troutman and outside Statesville. Many of these plants have become parts suppliers to the auto manufacturers who have shifted work out of their union shops to non-union places here in the south. People commute to Charlotte from there to work, but the numbers are not that high relative to the number of people that work in the Iredell. It doesn't help that Iredell streaches 25 miles north of Statesville also.

Lincoln county is in the same boat. With the exception of the people who live on the West side of the Lake, Eastern Lincoln county is pretty empty of people. If you drive down Hwy 73 from Huntersville to Lincolnton, there is almost nothing on that road between Denver and Lincolnton. Most of the people there work in Lincolnton. (I don't know where though). Also, there isn't a good road connection from Lincolnton direct to Charlotte. Hwy321 connects it to Gastonia instead.

[A2]

A2, to answer your earlier question.

Most of the people who live in Iredell, work in Iredell.  Most people work in the Statesville area.  Little known to most Charlotteans, there are endless numbers of manufacturing plants located around northern Mooresville, Troutman and outside Statesville.  Many of these plants have become parts suppliers to the auto manufacturers who have shifted work out of their union shops to non-union places here in the south.  People commute to Charlotte from there to work, but the numbers are not that high relative to the number of people that work in the Iredell.  It doesn't help that Iredell streaches 25 miles north of Statesville also.

Lincoln county is in the same boat.  With the exception of the people who live on the West side of the Lake, Eastern Lincoln county is pretty empty of people.  If you drive down Hwy 73 from Huntersville to Lincolnton, there is almost nothing on that road between Denver and Lincolnton.  Most of the people there work in Lincolnton.  (I don't know where though).  Also, there isn't a good road connection from Lincolnton direct to Charlotte.  Hwy321 connects it to Gastonia instead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then that sums it up. Thanks for the info MB. I tend to agree heavily with the Iredell county situation.

I think the fact that Mecklenburg and Iredell cover nearly the entire width of the state (almost to the VA border) has to have something to do with it.

I bet W-S could make an argument on why Iredell is not included in thier MSA.

A2

[atlrvr]

Just to add one thing.....the reason Anson is included is because the commuting doesn't have to occur to the core county, but rather to any single county that meets the MSA criteria. In Anson's case, they have over 15% of their population commuting to Union county.

[A2]

Just to add one thing.....the reason Anson is included is because the commuting doesn't have to occur to the core county, but rather to any single county that meets the MSA criteria.

[A2]

Thanks for moving this MB

A2

[NcSc74]

I am sure Charlotte has a large base of manufacturing jobs and other indurstial related things. By looking at that map it hard to believe that residents of the these border counties don't commute. So by the governments standards people of Stanly, Catawba, Iredell, Lincoln hell even Cleveland county do not rely on Charlotte or Gastonia enough to be included in the MSA. I am not to familiar with some of those counties but I know there is not a large population base there but still. For someone to live so close to a major city and not work there is a little far fetched. I do realize there are other job choices in those counties but like A2 said Charlottes MSA numbers just don't jive. I have posted before how a place like the Triad or the Triangle tales away from each others MSA but counites so close just soes not sit right with me.

[atlrvr]

Well....the easy solution to all of this is in 2010, tell everyone in the surrounding counties who get the "long form" to answer Mecklenburg County as where they commute to.

[A2]

I think at the end of the day, it is all about money.

Many would argue that Charlotte is just having an Inferiority complex and is just trying to make itself bigger, but I am not driving at that one bit.

The thing that needs to be addresed is the fact that there are counties that literally touch Mecklenburg that are not included in the MSA (ie Lancaster,Iredel, Lincoln). But then the Government takes a VERY rural county like Anson and adds it (Not to mention, it is way out in no-man's land).

This one county is five times smaller that Iredell !

It is one of the most rural in the entire state with one of the lowest populations of a whopping 25,000 people !

I think Charlotte is getting screwed on the Census Count, thus getting less in the way of Federal Funding for things as important as Transit.

Just my two cents.

A2

[monsoon]

.... For someone to live so close to a major city and not work there is a little far fetched. I do realize there are other job choices in those counties but like A2 said Charlottes MSA numbers just don't jive. ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is your definition of close? It's more than an hour's drive from Hickory (Catawba) to Charlotte when the traffic is good. It's doubful that many people from that county commute to Charlotte when it is the center of NC's Furniture manufacturing industry.

[dubone]

what do we lose as far as money by not having those counties in our msa? is it just a matter of bragging rights?

frankly, i think it is good that most residents in those counties work and commute within their county. cross-county commuting, is a major source of sprawl, stratin on infrastructure capacity, pollution, etc.

[A2]

What is your definition of close?  It's more than an hour's drive from Hickory (Catawba) to Charlotte when the traffic is good.  It's doubful that many people from that county commute to Charlotte when it is the center of NC's Furniture manufacturing industry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to knock you MB, but three people in my department commute from Hickory. One is even from Statesville.

It is true that Hickory has its own industry, enough to easily handle its current population. But one could argue the point that commuting is not that bad. I have lived in Atlanta and can tell you that an hour's commute is pretty much the norm.

A2

[NcSc74]

In terms of miles or actual commute times. I have always have had commute time of up to 30 to 45 minutes in variours metros. As for Hickory I agree with it being a micropolitan area. But southern parts of Iredell I do not. Or is the question is southern Iredell in any area of statistical value. Wow I am starting to sound like A2 here......ok now thats better. What I am saying is to look at Charlottes MSA numbers as opposed to its economical power it just seems impossible that it is such a small number(did that make sense).

[dubone]

a2, you need to start trying to convince those hickory nuts to move to charlotte!!! why on earth would they commute that far!?!

[A2]

So what's so bad about sounding like me NcSc74??? ha-ha

A2

[A2]

a2, you need to start trying to convince those hickory nuts to move to charlotte!!!  why on earth would they commute that far!?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some people like to have thier cake and eat it too.

Who would't love to be an Investment Banker living in their 8000 sq foot home in Hickory, exactly half way between their Mountain home in Blowing Rock and their work in a CLT tower.

A2

[Viper]

What I am saying is to look at Charlottes MSA numbers as opposed to its economical power it just seems impossible that it is such a small number(did that make sense).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you provide some figures comparing similarly sized cities in economic and MSA population terms?

[monsoon]

I can't say that I have seen too many 8000 sq/ft houses in the Hickory area. Thats more of a Mecklenburg county thing. Most of the people who live in Catawba county are much more modest with the amount of money they have available for that type of thing. Even the waterfront homes on Lake Hickory are not that large compared to the huge Godzilla sized monsters that you see on the south shores of Lake Norman now.