Charlotte's MSA too small?

[dubone]

are they on the western shore of lake norman?

they should dump their hickory property and buying into the vue or trademark and walking to work, and then spending all the extra time they save on commuting in their mountain home. surely if anyone can talk them into that, it'd be you .

[monsoon]

are they on the western shore of lake norman?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, being built as we speak. Crescent Properties (aka Duke Energy) is selling every bit of shoreline on Lake Norman which is basically ruining it. There are monster houses going up both sides of the lake now well past Hwy 150. But the worst is on the Mecklenburg, Iredell portions.

[teshadoh]

^ Hardly anyone drives to W-S from Iredell Co for work, 477 based on 2000 records worked in Forsyth Co. But Iredell Co / Statesville is certainly becoming a future MSA county for Charlotte, 15% out of the 30% that commute out of Iredell work in Mecklenburg. Most likely Iredell will join Charlotte's MSA after the 2010 census.

[NcSc74]

I remember reading an article a while back when the Piedmont Cresent made the front page of Time mag. I think it was time mag. Anyway the article mentioned that NC has a city/state mentality. In other words each city wants to be self sufficient and master of their domain. This kinda explains the small MSA numbers because not all cities in a metro want to be just a part of the metrolina empire or triad or triangle. Take for instance look at the number micropolitan areas bordering MSAs. Especially in NC it is very common. There a lot of cities of about 40,000 to 50 to 60 thousand in NC but are cutoff from the large metros. Maybe if Burlington was more in tune to being a Triad city then it would be in the Triad MSA. Or if the cities or towns in Lincoln, Iredell county were receptive to being a I hate to say this "bedroom community" then Charlottes MSA would be larger. I think NC has not evolved to the point that people recognize these metros are the places to be. I still think residents of these samller cities believe that living in Rocky Mount is what is happening. I am not trying to disrespect these cities but it seems that only the people on this site realize that when comes to the big time only the metro numbers matter.

[NcSc74]

I remember reading an article a while back when the Piedmont Cresent made the front page of Time mag. I think it was time mag. Anyway the article mentioned that NC has a city/state mentality. In other words each city wants to be self sufficient and master of their domain. This kinda explains the small MSA numbers because not all cities in a metro want to be just a part of the metrolina empire or triad or triangle. Take for instance look at the number micropolitan areas bordering MSAs. Especially in NC it is very common.  There a lot of cities of about 40,000 to 50 to 60 thousand in NC but are cutoff from the large metros. Maybe if Burlington was more in tune to being a Triad city then it would be in the Triad MSA. Or if the cities or towns in Lincoln, Iredell county were receptive to being a I hate to say this "bedroom community" then Charlottes MSA would be larger. I think NC has not evolved to the point that people recognize these metros are the places to be. I still think residents of these samller cities believe that living in Rocky Mount is what is happening. I am not trying to disrespect these cities but it seems that only the people on this site realize that when comes to the big time only the metro numbers matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think NC is in a paradoxial situation because do we want the big three to dominate growth or, even growth throughout the state. I am a champion of even growth however I do feel the need for our large metros to be the tip of the spear for NC. I am a down east boy but I want Charlotte the Traid and the Triangle to be one contiguous urban corridor. Maybe then NC will get the respect other states get because most of their growth happens there.

[monsoon]

It is 170 miles from downtown Raleigh to downtown Charlotte. I don't think any of us will see this being one continous metro as there are less than 6 million people living in the 3 metros now.

In reference to the MSA article in Time magazine. That must have been a poorly written article (no surprise here, its Time) as cities and counties don't get to decide if they are part of a MSA or not. That is determined by the federal government based established commuting formulas.

North Carolina politics have been dominated by rural legislators. As a result there are many state policies (mostly centered around the NCDOT) that encourage growth in the rural parts of the state at the expense of the cities. This is why you see the state paving new super highways and building expensive bridges where they are not needed. The Global Transpark debacle is another example.

The NCDOT promotes really bad sprawl. Counties are not allowed to build and design roads. That is the province of the state government. Often the NCDOT will build these things with little regard to the local needs and we end up with situations, such as Exit 25 on I-77, that turn out to be a congested mess. That is because the NCDOT has a one size fits all mentality along with a "not invented here" one as well.

Charlotte, and I suspect the same is true for the cities of the Triangle and the Triad, have grown in spite of the state, not because of it. And Western North Carolina is especially short changed in the scheme of things. The only time we see Easley is when there is a photo op for him to come here and crow about some jobs that he had nothing to do with bringing to the area. I think if he was put in a car and told to drive to Charlotte, he probably couldn't find it on his own.

[NeilD]

The reason that Catawba County is not counted the the Charlotte MSA or CSA numbers is because it is its own Metropolitan Statistical Area.(MSA). It is the core county for the Hickory-Morganton-Lenoir MSA. Composed of Catawba, Burke, Caldwell, and Alexander Counties its 2000 Census Population was 341,851. For comparitive purposes, here are some similar sized MSAs with their year 2000 figures-(Asheville, NC 369,171) (Fayetteville, NC 336,609) (Wilmington, NC 274,532).

As far as Iredell County, there is no question that it is more oriented towards the Charlotte MSA than Winston-Salem or Hickory. But, due to the federal government's Micropolitan designations for Statesville-Mooresville (Iredell), Salisbury (Rowan), and Lincolnton (Lincoln) they are not included in the MSA count. They should be there, (Recall that the old MSA included Iredell along with Rowan and Lincoln counties.) But the government has changed the way they are designating MSA by creating the Consolidated Statistical Area (CSA).

A more accurate picture of Charlotte's true size can be found by looking at the CSA.

[monsoon]

Good points NielD and welcome to UrbanPlanet & the NC part of the forum.

[A2]

The reason that Catawba County is not counted the the Charlotte MSA or CSA numbers is because it is its own Metropolitan Statistical Area.(MSA). It is the core county for the Hickory-Morganton-Lenoir MSA. Composed of Catawba, Burke, Caldwell, and Alexander Counties its 2000 Census Population was 341,851. For comparitive purposes, here are some similar sized MSAs with their year 2000 figures-(Asheville, NC 369,171) (Fayetteville, NC 336,609) (Wilmington, NC 274,532).

As far as Iredell County, there is no question that it is more oriented towards the Charlotte MSA than Winston-Salem or Hickory. But, due to the federal government's Micropolitan designations for Statesville-Mooresville (Iredell), Salisbury (Rowan), and Lincolnton (Lincoln) they are not included in the MSA count. They should be there, (Recall that the old MSA included Iredell along with Rowan and Lincoln counties.) But the government has changed the way they are designating MSA by creating the Consolidated Statistical Area (CSA).

A more accurate picture of Charlotte's true size can be found by looking at the CSA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would agree with everything you just said NeilD. And again Welcome to UP. B)

A2

[dubone]

so if the CSA is the better indicator... what would we gain from having those counties in our MSA?

[A2]

so if the CSA is the better indicator... what would we gain from having those counties in our MSA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great question D. I guess to answer that we need to know how the Federal Gov't distrubutes cash. Is it per MSA or CSA? Any ideas?

A2

[monsoon]

I would say it is by MSA.

[dubone]

what do you mean to distribute cash, though?

many times, the fed gives matching funds, so the money follows state money, which has nothing to do with MSA or CSA.

it isn't like the city of charlotte gets more money because it has more people commuting to it from nearby counties...

my feeling is that if MSA is an indicator of cross-county commuting, i'd rather have the smaller MSA number, and avoid all the costs and problems associated with it. that is especially true if CSA can paint the picture of the population in our region, regardless of commuting patterns.