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krazeeboi

What's the most urban Southern city?

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Big = Atlanta or Miami (assuming Houston is not included in "Southern")

Medium = Charlotte (it could be considered a "big city")

Small = Unsure how to define.

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Large (UA 1mil+): Miami, ATL, Tampa, Va Beach, Orlando, New Orleans etc..

Mid (UA 500K+) : Memphis, Jville, Lville, Richmond, Charlotte, Nville, Bham, Raleigh,etc.

Small (UA <500Kbut >200K): Baton Rouge, Charleston, Columbia, Knoxville, Little Rock, "Noog", Augusta, Mobile, Gville, Winston, Jackson, Durham, G'sboro, etc....

Based on UA populations anyway.

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Consider that all these cities - except for Miami - have historical urban cores. It should be noted that Birmingham's population density has dropped dramatically, but the size of the grid of the city is massive, so I included it.

Large (UA 1 million+): Miami / New Orleans

Medium (UA 500k+): Memphis / Richmond / Birmingham

Small (UA 200k+): Charleston / Savannah

In terms of urban areas - for their size - that are most dissapointing in density (I'm not speaking of skylines but of population density) it would be:

Big: Atlanta

Medium: Charlotte, Raleigh

Small: Greenville

Now - regarding the above cities, I've argued the best manner of judging urban cores is to simply view a list of most populated cities in 1940. Atlanta would have been considered a medium sized city then, & Charlotte & Raleigh were small cities nearer the size of Greenville SC. These city's are not neccessarily to blame for not developing a dense core, because these are poster children of post WWII urban areas, where most development has been suburban oriented. Even reviewing their downtowns, though impressive - they are designed for car accessibility. Infill is the key - Atlanta & Charlotte are moving in that direction, it is still debatable where Raleigh & Greenville is.

As for a surprisingly dense city - at least based on assumptions on urbanity - Orlando is more dense than most would think it would be, typically most FL cities actually have urban cores of 10k people per square mile. Additionally - their typical block size is smaller than other southeastern cities, not always a grid base, but they promote greater densities.

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City MSA

New York 11,296,377

Los Angeles 9,519,338

Long Beach, CA 9,519,338

Chicago 8,272,768

Philadelphia 5,100,931

Washington D.C. 4,923,153

Detroit 4,441,551

Boston 4,391,344

Houston 4,177,646

Atlanta 4,112,198

Dallas 3,519,176

Mesa 3,251,876

Phoenix 3,251,876

Minneapolis 2,968,806

St. Paul 2,968,806

Anaheim 2,846,289

Santa Ana 2,846,289

San Diego 2,813,833

St. Louis 2,603,607

Baltimore 2,552,994

Seattle 2,414,616

Tampa 2,395,997

Oakland 2,392,557

Pittsburg 2,358,695

Miami 2,253,362

Cleveland 2,250,871

Denver 2,109,282

Newark 2,032,989

Portland 1,918,009

Kansas City 1,776,062

San Fransisco 1,731,183

Arlington, TX 1,710,318

Fort Worth 1,702,625

San Jose 1,682,585

Cincinnati 1,646,395

Orlando 1,644,561

Sacremento 1,628,197

Indianapolis 1,607,486

San Antonio 1,592,383

Virginia Beach 1,569,541

Las Vegas 1,563,282

Columbus 1,540,157

Milwaukee 1,500,741

Charlotte 1,499,293

New Orleans 1,337,726

Austin 1,249,763

Nashville-Davidson 1,231,311

Raleigh 1,187,941

Buffalo 1,170,111

Memphis 1,135,614

Jacksonville 1,100,491

Richmond, VA 1,096,957

Oklohoma City 1,083,346

Rochester 1,037,831

Fresno 922,516

Birmingham 921,106

Honolulu 876,156

Albany, NY 875,583

Tucson 843,746

Tulsa 803,235

Omaha 716,998

Albuquerque 712,738

El Paso 679,622

Toledo 618,203

Baton Rouge 602,894

Little Rock 583,845

Charleston 549,033

Wichita 545,220

Colorodo Springs 537,484

Daytona Beach 443,343

Corpus Christi 403,280

Reno 342,885

Tallahasee 320,304

Anchorage 319,605

* I think San Antonio is dissapointing. Being the 9th biggest city in America, it only has the 39th biggest MSA!

* You're right, Orlando was surprising....

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Charlotte's disappointing on that list. For the 20th something largest city it has the 43rd largest MSA.

Raleigh's is deceptively large for its size (57th largest city, only a couple places behind Charlotte on that list), because it's a two-core metro. A lot of its suburbs are actually suburbs of Durham, and Durham itself gets to boost the population.

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Large : Miami

Medium : New Orleans - Memphis

Small : Savannah - Charleston - Asheville - Knoxville

Micropolitan/ Very Small : Paducah, KY - amazing little urban city IMO.

Other - Cairo, IL - its still very urban for being a basically dead town in most regards. Yes its in Illinois, but its the furthest point south in the state, historically significant (for good and bad reasons), and has alot of southern traits.

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I don't consider Florida or Miami to be Southern (culture).

When I think of Southern...I think of old Southern mansions, sweet tea, etc

The South is Atlanta, Charlotte, Charleston, Birmingham, New Orleans, Nashville, and even Richmond.

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I don't consider Florida or Miami to be Southern (culture).

When I think of Southern...I think of old Southern mansions, sweet tea, etc

The South is Atlanta, Charlotte, Charleston, Birmingham, New Orleans, Nashville, and even Richmond.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Miami is in the South, thus southern. It might not be typical southern as far social and cultural lifeways go anymore (ie Old South stereotypes), but in geographic terms it was, is, and always will be a southern city. Florida in many ways is very much a southern state, esp. the northern half.

Richmond IMO is the a city that would immediately come to mind when the term southern is used, either in geographic or stereotypical "Old South" terms.

I really don't understand why some folks want to divorce certian states or cities from their region. Its a geographic reality. Some states and cities may be atypical to some degree or another from their region, but they're still in that region.

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Just a note to some - don't consider the urban area population to be a true indicator of 'urbanity' for a city. What the UA indicates, is the mass of urban & suburban development - continuous areas of 1000 people per square mile. This figure can be deceiving just as MSA populations are deceiving.

And of course - municipal populations is the most irrelevant indicator of importance. Politically designated boundaries are not even worth mentioning.

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Large: Atlanta, Jacksonville

Medium: Charlotte, Orlando

Small: Columbia, Charleston

I know what you are saying about the southern feel in FL....Orlando doesn't feel like the south but Jacksonville is definatley rich with southern culture. I guess because FL isn't really a agricultural state like the rest of the South

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City MSA

New York                11,296,377

Los Angeles 9,519,338

Long Beach, CA 9,519,338

Chicago                8,272,768

Philadelphia 5,100,931

Washington D.C. 4,923,153

Detroit                4,441,551

Boston 4,391,344

Houston 4,177,646

Atlanta 4,112,198

Dallas 3,519,176

Mesa 3,251,876

Phoenix 3,251,876

Minneapolis 2,968,806

St. Paul 2,968,806

Anaheim 2,846,289

Santa Ana 2,846,289

San Diego 2,813,833

St. Louis 2,603,607

Baltimore 2,552,994

Seattle 2,414,616

Tampa 2,395,997

Oakland 2,392,557

Pittsburg 2,358,695

Miami 2,253,362

Cleveland 2,250,871

Denver 2,109,282

Newark 2,032,989

Portland 1,918,009

Kansas City 1,776,062

San Fransisco 1,731,183

Arlington, TX 1,710,318

Fort Worth 1,702,625

San Jose 1,682,585

Cincinnati 1,646,395

Orlando 1,644,561

Sacremento 1,628,197

Indianapolis 1,607,486

San Antonio 1,592,383

Virginia Beach 1,569,541

Las Vegas 1,563,282

Columbus 1,540,157

Milwaukee 1,500,741

Charlotte 1,499,293

New Orleans 1,337,726

Austin 1,249,763

Nashville-Davidson 1,231,311

Raleigh  1,187,941

Buffalo 1,170,111

Memphis 1,135,614

Jacksonville 1,100,491

Richmond, VA 1,096,957

Oklohoma City 1,083,346

Rochester 1,037,831

Fresno 922,516

Birmingham 921,106

Honolulu 876,156

Albany, NY 875,583

Tucson 843,746

Tulsa 803,235

Omaha 716,998

Albuquerque 712,738

El Paso 679,622

Toledo 618,203

Baton Rouge 602,894

Little Rock 583,845

Charleston 549,033

Wichita 545,220

Colorodo Springs 537,484

Daytona Beach 443,343

Corpus Christi 403,280

Reno 342,885

Tallahasee 320,304

Anchorage 319,605

* I think San Antonio is dissapointing. Being the 9th biggest city in America, it only has the 39th biggest MSA!

* You're right, Orlando was surprising....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey we are now the 8th largest City took Dallas place :D But yes are Metro well in simple terms sucks! You have to Remember how large the county of Bexar is thoe its one of the largest in the country

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Large: Atlanta, Jacksonville

Medium: Charlotte, Orlando

Small: Columbia, Charleston

I know what you are saying about the southern feel in FL....Orlando doesn't feel like the south but Jacksonville is definatley rich with southern culture. I guess because FL isn't really a agricultural state like the rest of the South

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that I see what most members are considering "small" cities, I can add one for consideration along with Columbia and Charleston. Greenville has focused incredibly on creating higher density residential growth within the urban core of the City. The success has been obvious as all of these developments are filling up rapidly. I think we'll all be very surprised when the next census numbers come out on Greenville. Another thing to be aware of is that Greenville County already has a population over 400,000 and growing, this added to the neighboring counties which are also growing very fast. :)

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IMO the most urban cities in the south would be those with the least amount of suburban sprawl in each respective category. With that in mind, I would choose:

Large - Miami

Medium - New Orleans (I do hope it recovers)

Small - Charleston, SC

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^ A good list that simplifies my own, I have to agree with you on that ;)

In particular is your comment regarding least amount of suburban sprawl, those cities are comparably least sprawling. But I think what is more important is the size & population of the urban cores of those cities. With cities like Atlanta & Charlotte - they do indeed have a large number of towers for their respective size, what they lack are dense urban residential neighborhoods that surround those CBD's. That is what the 3 cities you cite do have, it isn't about the tower - which I think in many ways has a negative influence on the urban environment - it is large concentrations of people living in a large area that makes an urban area URBAN.

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IMO the most urban cities in the south would be those with the least amount of suburban sprawl in each respective category.  With that in mind, I would choose:

Large - Miami

Medium - New Orleans (I do hope it recovers)

Small - Charleston, SC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This sounds about right. By the way, Florida is deep into agriculture, and if that is what indicates its "Southerness" its interesting to note that the bulk of Florida's agriculture is actually in South Florida between the southern Orlando metro and just North of Miami. All one would need to do is travel the turnpike between the two cities to see this.

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Large - Washington DC

Medium - Charlotte

Small - Asheville, NC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After being in DC this weekend, I think I'd have to give them the title of most urban large city as well.

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After being in DC this weekend, I think I'd have to give them the title of most urban large city as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can anybody tell me how much Greensboro compares as an "Urban city"....like DC. I understand that Charlotte is pretty close, but I'm considering a transfer and it would be to Greensboro. However, since I like the big city (as long as it's not too big!!)...would i be terribly disappointed in Greensboro? Size-wise Greensboro is fine...but how trendy, hip & cool is it? And I'm not talking about for 20-something "younguns' either. I mean for those of us who are 30ish and still date and get out once in awhile!

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I'm no expert, but I'd have to assume it has plenty of fun to go around. You might consider checking the North Carolina forum for more detailed answers. As far as urbanity, from what I've seen, Greensboro is definitely a force to be reckoned with in the Carolinas. Definitely not as urban as Raleigh or Winston-Salem, but much larger than Asheville and Wilmington. :)

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