New Condo Tower

[UrbanCharlotte]

The next condo tower imo will be announced in a little over a month around the Arena on one of the surface lots.

[RiverwoodCLT]

We are looking sometime around March, 2006 or before.

[metropolitan]

Is this insider information or just a poll and pure speculation/wishful thinking??? If it's insider info, is the public announcement coming next month or next yr...just seeking some clarity, guys

[UrbanCharlotte]

Either/or

[atlrvr]

Well....not counting The Citadin addition of the 22 story towers, or Berkman Tower at the Carolina Theatre, nor the Furman midrise in 2nd Ward, I'm going to say the next Uptown tower will be announced in late December to mid-January. Also, I anticipate a SP tower announced around that same time, with another roughly 1-2 months after that.....just speculating of course.

[monsoon]

I think they will keep building condos as long as interest rates are cheap and people are willing to spend lots of money on them.

In regards to insider information, I don't count it as a real project until someone is sticking a shovel into the ground. I've seen too many projects announced in downtown Charlotte that never saw the light of day.

[A2]

There is going to be a new interest in the South Park area for sure. Novare who has the money and the intent to build one. They have already announced that they are moving forward for one, possibly two condo towers areound the mall.

Also, something that has had little mention is the tower proposal at the Morrison project on Colony and Sharon. This is a definate according to the developer. The time frame on construction is further out, and the final height has been undetermined.

The fact that SP is running out of space, but running high on demand, just proves that the last frontier is verticle structures in this area.

A2

[dubone]

we got many of our announcements this past spring, so maybe next spring there will be a few more.

i know this is heresy, but i'd almost rather get no additional announcements until the already-announced towers either sell out or begin construction. that could happen in the next 6 months if things go well.

[A2]

we got many of our announcements this past spring, so maybe next spring there will be a few more.

i know this is heresy, but i'd almost rather get no additional announcements until the already-announced towers either sell out or begin construction.  that could happen in the next 6 months if things go well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree D. No need to get other developers concerned about a potential construction overload in Center City housing.

I say create demand by not over building a glut of supply. This also helps those who own (or will own) Center city housing, since they will have rising home values. Instead of falling ones with a glut of condos hitting the market too soon.

A2

[ElricSeven]

I agree D. No need to get other developers concerned about a potential construction overload in Center City housing.

I say create demand by not over building a glut of supply. This also helps those who own (or will own) Center city housing, since they will have rising home values. Instead of falling ones with a glut of condos hitting the market too soon.

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It isn't human nature to assume more success is a bad thing. More announcements will fuel more announcements. Everyone doesn't want to miss the next big thing.

All that being said, I think rising commodity prices will go a long way to protecting current owner values.

[A2]

All that being said, I think rising commodity prices will go a long way to protecting current owner values.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very insightful E7. I agree with this.

A2

[Rickydavisfan21]

When I saw this Post on the urbanplanet form new entries thing on the start page, I got way to excited, thanx for spoiling my excitement, I saw NEW TOWER, and I was like OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG, and almost peed myself, but anyways, dunno where the next tower will be or when I just want all these new ones to go through

[A2]

When I saw this Post on the urbanplanet form new entries thing on the start page, I got way to excited, thanx for spoiling my excitement, I saw NEW TOWER, and I was like OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG, and almost peed myself, but anyways, dunno where the next tower will be or when I just want all these new ones to go through

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

don't worry RDF. Five of them (230 S Tryon, Courtside, Trademark, Avenue, and Epicenter) are well under way and the others are a sure bet. (except the Park )

There are more announcements to come and more towers to build. I think when you come back to visit you will pleasantly pleased by the cranes literring the CLT skyline. I am looking at 2 right outside of my 18th floor office window as I am typing this.

A2

[UrbanCharlotte]

The park as of now is a go, and what about the vue getting taller?

[UrbanCharlotte]

and if the NASCAR HofF comes here, expect even more towers.

[dxartist]

The park as of now is a go,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless we see the cranes, The Park is a no go

[atlrvr]

The park as of now is a go, and what about the vue getting taller?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't believe someone typed this with a straight face.

[RiverwoodCLT]

I can see it now, its September 13, 2008 and the news is the Park will be starting next month.

[A2]

Apartment vacancies are WAY DOWN, well under 9% in Charlotte (even less in Center City). It has not been that low since 2000.

Next tower, IMO, will be rental units, not condos. IMO, the market has made a dramatic shift toward home ownership over the last several years. With less product on the shelf to choose from Uptown, the next few projects just might be all apartments, or at least a blend of condo and rental. IF rates move up, expect developers to make a move to build more rentals to accomodate the rush back into that market.

Remember Towers are a result of market dynamics such as supply and demand and Rates, plus a preference to live "high" in a bustling center core.

With supply catching up to demand in Center city, with respect to Condos. The next logical move will be for developers to build appartment towers.

B)

A2

[dubone]

is it possible that that is the reason we haven't heard much from epicentre/twoten? i mean, Vue and Avenue are opening sales centers because they have to get buyers, but apartments don't need to go through that step, right?

is it possible that twotentrade (epicenter's 53-story apartment tower) is actually further along in the process of building than vue?

[atlrvr]

With supply catching up to demand in Center city, with respect to Condos. The next logical move will be for developers to build appartment towers.

B)

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While this is logical, unfortunately it may still be a while before we see a wave of new apartments in uptown. Urban building costs have been increasing at a rate of 20% a year. The good news for condo builders is that Uptown condo prices have been rising at least 20% a year. The bad news for apartments is that rental rates are rising less than 5% a year.

It is very difficult for an apartment developer to make money right now, and even if they were, there is much more money to be made on condos. Unfortunately this won't change until apartment rents start going up, or building costs start going down (this doesn't seem likely in the next year).

All that said, I'm aware of at least one developer considering an unannounced residentail tower in Uptown, that is trying to decide between apts and condo, but the factors I mentioned above have them leaning condo at the moment.

[atlrvr]

is it possible that that is the reason we haven't heard much from epicentre/twoten?  i mean, Vue and Avenue are opening sales centers because they have to get buyers, but apartments don't need to go through that step, right?

is it possible that twotentrade (epicenter's 53-story apartment tower) is actually further along in the process of building than vue?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've always assumed that it would go apartment, but like I mentioned above, it will be difficult for them to justify the building costs of a 54 story tower for apartments....which could be a reason they are trying to sign a operator for a condo/hotel...to take advantage of a hot trend, and further spread land/infrastruture costs to improve returns.

[A2]

It is always nice to have your insight atlrvr.

I agree with your math and your logic. I did not think of it that way. I will say this is rates go much higher it will price out a lot of the market. Before I moved to SP, I looked at two places Uptown.

1) Summit Grandview

2) Post Gateway

Both were, IMO, overprcied. I lived in a home in South CLT (Lansdowne), and sold. I wanted to move downtown, but the rents that I were looking at were MORE that my mortgage in a prestigious South Park/Providence road address !

My homes value was around 250K for 2100 square feet, on .60 acres of land.

Now, when I went to Summit, They had rents of around $1600 bucks for 1450 sq feet unit. THIS IS A RENTAL UNIT!!! I would hate to see retals rates go up much more in CenterCity, but if they do a lot more people will buy versus rent.

The second retal I looked at was Post Gateway. They wanted roughly $1,000 for less than 900 feet (at the time)!

I now rent in the Heart of SP. I have a 1600+ square foot unit (Twonhome) for less than a $1,000 bucks!

The market seems a bit crazy here uptown. It is really sad considering that many more would move to Uptown if rates were better.

Why is it that Charlotte is pricing out the middle market???

If they were to focus on this, our Uptown would be busting at the seams, with street level activity, retail, and just an abundance of things to do.

I know this is not Manhattan, that is why I question the extremely high rates in Uptown for a Rental. It is not like we have a lack of land.

I would think with rental rates at such high levels, their is little incentive to move downtown unless you are willing to own. The price one would pay for a 250K-300K home on a month to month basis, is around the monthly costs involved in a rental at many locations dtwn. !!!

I hope this changes in the future, not for me, but for the entire city. The mix of condos versus appartments is getting lop-sided and could directly impact the overall mix of demographics that a city NEEDS to be unique. If you price out the artists, musicians, and people in other professions that are essential in creating culture, than your city becomes "white-washed" cold and, IMO boring.

A2

[atlrvr]

Blame China. Besides the obvoius high land costs, the big factor is in construction techniques. To maximize the land, Uptown aprtments go vertical which require extensive concrete and steel (the two building materials rising in cost the quickest). It is still relatively inexpensive to do wood-frame construction, but those days are gone for intown aprtments.

[A2]

Blame China.