New Condo Tower

[cinco]

I know this is not Manhattan, that is why I question the extremely high rates in Uptown for a Rental. It is not like we have a lack of land.

I would think with rental rates at such high levels, their is little incentive to move downtown unless you are willing to own. The price one would pay for a 250K-300K home on a month to month basis, is around the monthly costs involved in a rental at many locations dtwn.  !!!

I hope this changes in the future, not for me, but for the entire city. The mix of condos versus appartments is getting lop-sided and could directly impact the overall mix of demographics that a city NEEDS to be unique. If you price out the artists, musicians, and people in other professions that are essential in creating culture, than your city becomes "white-washed" cold and, IMO boring. 

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well said, A2. i agree. are there any incentives for a developer to build mixed income housing uptown? if not, maybe there should be. i mean, i think it sucks that the government, sometimes, has to intice social responsibilities. i know that its all about the benjamins' but i wish there were more philantrophy involved.

but hey, i'm just some kid from waxhaw.

[A2]

I think in the end game it really is "all about the Benjamins". I just hope the steril type feel of Uptown will not prevail. WHen I am uptown, I feel uncomfortable sometimes amongst "the Suits".

What is really sad is that I am one of them, trapped in their world of hand-shaking and deal making.

But, I want to be in a city that not only has the business part nailed down, but also has places where one can let their hair down. Right now I do not see any places Uptown that resemble Double Door, Tremont, or anything close.

Uptown has your typical run of the mill chains (for the Rich and the Business man) and some decent bars. BUT, the center city is VOID of culture and grit. (and yes I siad grit).

I do not want this place to grow into a sterile environment where the wealthy can have their choice of which restraunt they want to go to, to simply enjoy their caviar or escargot.

I want a city that is a true urban mix of rich and poor. Of black, red, yellow and white. I want music (lots of it), glittering lights, a punk rock kid, with a blue spiked mohawk, walking down the street right next to a guy in an armani suit on his cell.

I WANT DIVERSITY.

I want more than a shiny 51 story skraper with 1,2,3 and 4 million dollar Penthouses.

I want a brownstone w/ character, made with warm red bricks and a metro store down the street.

What most might think I want is Philly or NYC, but it is not true. I want Charlotte.

BUT I WANT IT REPRESENTED UPTOWN.

Charlotte is a really cool place, with awesome people. It just lacks this diversity and color Uptown that I think all on this site want, more than anything to see.

A2

[SmellyCat]

a punk rock kid, with a blue spiked mohawk....

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You mean someone who resembles your old license photo, A2?

Seriously though, great commentary. Couldn't agree with you more.

[A2]

You mean someone who resembles your old license photo, A2? 

Seriously though, great commentary.  Couldn't agree with you more.

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basically

A2

[atlrvr]

He want's "The Ham".....

The way though to all of this is not for the city to subsidize devlopers, but to subsidize employment sectors that attract these people.

If you simply build cheap apartments then you will simply get more entry level people living here, or people who work in the retail sector....not exactly diverse.

If you want to see blue-haired adults with tattoos all over their body, then the city has to attract those people with employment opportunities that appeal to them. As appatone has suggested before, a design district. Fostering musicians (Laze's project will help this). Trying to lure advertising firms. The city could demand that more public art be commisioned by locals artists.

The city is sterile based on industry, not based on cost of living.

[A2]

The city is sterile based on industry, not based on cost of living.

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This is true atlrvr. Bankers are not known for their "wild side". But how does that explain me then

I guess I am a hybrid of sorts. A professional banker by day, and an eccentric drunk by night.

A2

[atlrvr]

You mean an eccentric banker by day and a professional drunk at night.....

[A2]

You mean an eccentric banker by day and a professional drunk at night.....

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A2

[cinco]

This is true atlrvr. Bankers are not known for their "wild side".

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maybe after playboy publishes their girls of "GAP" issue they could do a ladies of banking.

afterall, playboy defines "wild".

[Skyybutter]

I voted for 3-6 months. I think once developers actually see Avenue, Vue etc coming out of the ground its really going to get their blood pumping. IMO we havent begun to see the true potential in the uptown housing market. I think we have many years of building ahead of us. Throw in wachovias new tower and a new BofA tower and we wont recognize the skyline 5 years ahead. Someone mentioned a tower in SouthPark. I definately see this happening. My question to the group is how tall are we talking? 15stories? 30stories? Does that area already have height limits in place?

[ilektronik]

I'm on the same boat as you A2......software engineer by day....drunken deathmetal singer by night.

If I had the money, I would open up a band rehearsal space uptown, with a recording studio in it. I wouldn't charge an arm & leg like Queen City Underground either. Nothing like a band practice to draw all the underworld dwellers. Break out your axe A2!!!

Right now we practice in a friggin storage facility and it's totally lame. There is no networking with other bands like in a rehearsal space.

[A2]

so true ilectronic! I am hoping that the Laze's project atlrvr mentioned earlier will help to improve the fabric of the downtown music scene. It certainly won't hurt.

All in all I am optomistic about Uptown. I am a fan of the condos, and a fan of ANYTHING to bring life to the Center City, (even if it is rich cats that come first. I know one specifically named Smelly. JK SC . BTW, how did the trip to Eourpe go?)

I just want more diversity. I think eventually it will come. With a stronger national recognition and a growing Uptown, one can only predict that the "top is about to pop" in Center city.

A2

[MZT]

There's probably not a lot of diversity in Des Moines or Amarillo. But plenty of people live there and they're happy.

I don't think the population of Charlotte should be contrived or manipulated to be one thing or another... Just let it be what it will.

[f0xym0p]

There's probably not a lot of diversity in Des Moines or Amarillo. But plenty of people live there and they're happy.

I don't think the population of Charlotte should be contrived or manipulated to be one thing or another... Just let it be what it will.

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It's not the population of Charlotte we're talking about--just downtown. It appears that downtown has been "manipulated" because many people are priced out of the market and the rentals are going away. It once had a lot of low-income housing and now it has some of the most expensive housing in Charlotte. Plus the majority of bars and restaurants are upscale and pricey. I agree with A2--I don't want downtown Charlotte to only be a place for business workers and/or rich folks.

[dubone]

It's not the population of Charlotte we're talking about--just downtown. It appears that downtown has been "manipulated" because many people are priced out of the market and the rentals are going away. It once had a lot of low-income housing and now it has some of the most expensive housing in Charlotte. Plus the majority of bars and restaurants are upscale and pricey. I agree with A2--I don't want downtown Charlotte to only be a place for business workers and/or rich folks.

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downtown has the highest concentration of public and subsidized housing in the county (if not the state). It is in zero risk of being homogenously rich. Because it is the city that owns those housing units, they won't have issues of rising taxes or values forcing them to raise rent. The city also got a heck of deal on them, because they bought when the land was relatively valueless.

[MZT]

I think I have a healthy salary, and work uptown with one of the big corps.

But I have a hard time justifying spending more than about $700/mo for a place to live. More than that, and I start thinking about what it costs to sleep there... how it compares to just living in a motel... (Most I've ever faced was $1050 a month, and I split that with a roommate.)

The current condo offerings don't just price out the working poor. They price out the middle class, and even some of the professional class.

[UrbanCharlotte]

Anyone seeing another high rise coming to southend other than the Arlington? They have a 120' height restriction in some areas.

[ElricSeven]

I think I have a healthy salary, and work uptown with one of the big corps.

But I have a hard time justifying spending more than about $700/mo for a place to live. More than that, and I start thinking about what it costs to sleep there... how it compares to just living in a motel... (Most I've ever faced was $1050 a month, and I split that with a roommate.)

The current condo offerings don't just price out the working poor. They price out the middle class, and even some of the professional class.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what would your solution be to all of this?

[dubone]

Anyone seeing another high rise coming to southend other than the Arlington? They have a 120' height restriction in some areas.

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although i'm sure it is WAY on the backburner, but it is possible that pappas's plans for the old duke power land by what would have been the new trolley barn could include a residential tower just like they plan at midtown square. that is just speculation, not inside info or anything.

i do hope that we get some 10-15 story buildings in southend, though, so that the arlington isn't just alone in the skyline down there.

[ilektronik]

But I have a hard time justifying spending more than about $700/mo for a place to live.

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you've been living with candy colored lenses your whole life then. i don't think i've ever paid LESS than 1200 a month on rent. This was even when I was a jr code monkey making d*ck.

[monsoon]

Haha, I had an apartment off N. Tryon once that was $178/month and that included all utilities. (maybe 700 sq ft)

We are in a real estate bubble right now. It will "POP" like all bubbles that money chases and you will see much more reasonable prices. The market will overbuild as long as the prices are high and then all of a sudden it will have a lot of unsold units. I've seen it all before. Charlotte just isn't a city that can command Chicago or Manhatten prices for a long period.

[atlrvr]

I'm not sure I really understand a lot of people's complaints. There is supply and demand......if people want to rent a two bedroom apartment for $300 bucks a month on a bus-line that goes straight to uptown, then I'll be more than happy to show you several options, but I have a feeling most people would claim that don't feel safe, or the ammenities aren't what they were hoping for.

It seems everyone want to live in the trendy area but pay suburban prices. I'm not sure I agree there is a bubble, but obviously prices will continue to go up until the demand goes away.....just like with anything.

I'm not sure whose responsibility it is to make sure prices don't increase, not am I aware of any long-term effective way to keep prices down short of government owned housing.....maybe we can get some commie blocks.

[MZT]

We are all living where we are, as a result of weighing out those compromises.

I don't think we need rent control or anything drastic. We just need to encourage continued growth where the city already has infrastructure. It would be less property tax burden on everyone, if the city hadn't sprawled so far in the first place.

In some ways it's not that bad that the wealthy get their first crack at things. They do everywhere else in life anyway. But if they're making uptown a "magnet" then development will follow that's more affordable for other people interested in moving there.

The transit corridors will help a lot in this regard. Many people will decide they don't just "have to have" a view in the sky. A nice rowhouse or condo with a 5-10 minute commute will do fine.

[ngp]

Some people want to live downtown and can't afford it. Lots of people, probably. Just because they voice a little frustration that they're priced out of a convenient and desirable lifestyle option doesn't mean they want "commie blocks" or any other such bullcrap. They just want increased supply, most likely.

Why do you people get so defensive anytime somebody suggests a desire for a downtown middle-class option?

[orulz]

Haha,  I had an apartment off N. Tryon once that was $178/month and that included all utilities. (maybe 700 sq ft)

When was that? Without massive subsidy we're not going to be seeing sub-$200 rents again, ever, anywhere in this country; it's a matter of inflation, not a real estate bubble.

We are in a real estate bubble right now.  It will "POP" like all bubbles that money chases and you will see much more reasonable prices.  The market will overbuild as long as the prices are high and then all of a sudden it will have a lot of unsold units.  I've seen it all before.  Charlotte just isn't a city that can command Chicago or Manhatten prices for a long period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that what is keeping Charlotte (and the rest of NC) honest in the face of the massive bubble going on elsewhere is the sprawl - the widespread availability of cheap, poorly built homes where there used to be tobacco fields.

If people can't afford to live closer in, then they can live out around 485 in a $100,000 townhome, or pay $600 a month for a stick-built two bedroom apartment. A massively cheaper option is available, and yet people still choose to pay extra to live near uptown - the costs actually reflect how desirable central Charlotte is, rather than just feverish speculative insanity found in other markets.