Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[lil-bear]

My hunch is that they changed the current terminus from the Barry Robinson Center area to just dead ending at Newtown Road for the very reason that VA Beach now wants to get on board. It's the same reason that VA Beach abruptly dumped the BRT idea as well.

Portland Oregon's MAX LR took almost 15 years to start really going deep into the burbs of Hillsborough and Gresham. I think that if the starter line is successful and they manage to keep it clean, safe and nice it will eventually spread out there. If HRT bungles it, it will set public transport back even further in this area.

I hope not!

[rusthebuss]

My hunch is that they changed the current terminus from the Barry Robinson Center area to just dead ending at Newtown Road for the very reason that VA Beach now wants to get on board. It's the same reason that VA Beach abruptly dumped the BRT idea as well.

Portland Oregon's MAX LR took almost 15 years to start really going deep into the burbs of Hillsborough and Gresham. I think that if the starter line is successful and they manage to keep it clean, safe and nice it will eventually spread out there. If HRT bungles it, it will set public transport back even further in this area.

So I take it you don't buy the whole Oceana thing the reason they stopped the BRT? I hope that you are right cause this would be helpful for the entire region and if the third crossing is built and LR runs through there and Newport News working on getting it, it would eventually be regional !

Edited November 19, 2005 by rusthebuss

[lil-bear]

With a good rail network, the only buses on the road will be smaller "feeder" buses taking people to the light rail stations!

[urbanfan]

My hunch is that they changed the current terminus from the Barry Robinson Center area to just dead ending at Newtown Road for the very reason that VA Beach now wants to get on board. It's the same reason that VA Beach abruptly dumped the BRT idea as well.

Portland Oregon's MAX LR took almost 15 years to start really going deep into the burbs of Hillsborough and Gresham. I think that if the starter line is successful and they manage to keep it clean, safe and nice it will eventually spread out there. If HRT bungles it, it will set public transport back even further in this area.

Actually, the reason for the end of line change was because all of these nimby's came out in force for the Barry Robinson Center. However, this is one time that NIMBY'S actually changed something for the good. Norfolk and HRT were dead set on connecting Medical Center and The hospital on kempsville. But everyone came out to protest having a end of line terminus so close to where the barry robinson center was because it was too dangerous. HRT has all of these comments on there web page if you look hard enough. However, you will be there for days reading the some 100's of posts.

[lil-bear]

That end of the line needs to be kept so it can be extended!

VB will want to persure this, especially since they are beging to build density at TC!

[willy]

I hope that you are right cause this would be helpful for the entire region and if the third crossing is built and LR runs through there and Newport News working on getting it, it would eventually be regional !

And the only way we are going to get metro-wide LRT and the third crossing is through some form of taxes. Be it a gas tax, tolls, or just general tax increases will be the only way we will continue to grow as a region. I'm tired of these people always wanting something for nothing. In the town hall meeting yesterday in NN a gentleman said he basically wants the shipping companies to shoulder the largest part of the third crossing. Mmm, and how long do you think these shipping companies will stay in Norfolk & NN when we start taxing them through the ass to help pay for our roads? Keep in mind Baltimore, Charleston, Savannah, and New York will look a lot sweeter if we pull this one.

Please note:

This little rant was not directed to anyone on this board. I just got a little peeved after reading that article in the pilot.

edit: fixed malfuntioning quote.

Edited November 22, 2005 by vdogg

[rusthebuss]

My only gripe is that certain regions get by with the state footing the bill and we are left high and dry. What I'm worried about is how much money will actually stay here and support those roads? That is what alot of people fear is that the money will not stay here. I too fear we will not keep the money in this area.

Taxes don't bother me as long as I'm not paying for another region while ours goes down the drain. If they can garantee that it stays here without some little clause I don't mind being self sufficient but that doesn't happen in this state!

[Glassoul]

From insidebiz:

... and has unanimous support from a majority of City Council."

That sentence makes no sense. Unanimous indicates that ALL would be in favour, not just a majority. Light Rail is cool, as long as it doesn't disrupt vehicular traffic too much. It is also a bit of an eye sore with all the poles and hanging wires. The real benefit would come from having it connected from downtown to the strip, however.

Edited November 24, 2005 by Glassoul

[Former Resident of HR]

So I take it you don't buy the whole Oceana thing the reason they stopped the BRT? I hope that you are right cause this would be helpful for the entire region and if the third crossing is built and LR runs through there and Newport News working on getting it, it would eventually be regional !

To be honest, no I don't think Oceana has anything to do with the demise of BRT. When VA Beach voted down LR, there was no Town Center, downtown Norfolk was still very sketchy and gas was like $1 a gallon. Things changed pretty rapidly and now I think that they see that LR could a boon for them as well. BRT linking into LR along the same alignment makes no sense.

What does boggle my mind is how Norfolk Southern can have the audacity to charge VA Beach or Norfolk millions for a tiny strip of land that they are not using anyway. I know your dad works for NS but what they are charging ($46 mil or something) should be a crime. If ever there was a case for emminant domain, this would be it.

[rusthebuss]

Well that is what the property is appraised for. If the city tried to use emminant domain the railroad would probably pack their hqs up and leave. The state tried to put some crazy tax on them and they almost left the state. I'm not insulted by this cause my dad works there and I don't think he cares either way.

[lil-bear]

One has to admit though, shouldn't NS be acting more like a good corporate partner? They should donate the rail right-of-way to the city and get a tax break. If it's worth $46 million, I hope the city is taxing the crap out of them!!!!!

[rusthebuss]

They are a business and you don't give away your corporate assests. Its doesn't look that wide but its long. I know we want them to give it to them but the city has taxed them for years and so has the state.

[Padman]

I love the prospect of getting BRT going here. It could work as a part of an expanded LRT project, not as an alternative. It just didn't make sense to a lot of people to have huge articulated buses stalling around the oceanfront like elephants misplaced in a petting zoo. BRT could offer the following:

1. relatively affordable rapid transit

2. routes using HOV lanes to Norfolk's Naval Base (largest employment center in the region)

3. market driven flexible routing (not fixed guideway dependent)

4. routes to the Peninsula and to Chesapeake/Suffolk (based on the above)

5. supplemental transit to downtown/medical center as needed (special events)

The biggest difficulty implementing this idea would be coordination. The Feds might not cooperate--see it as competing systems, They are rule dominated, stubborn and rigid. But it could be a phased program. The BRT component could be a phantom program until the LRT is fully operational.

[willy]

On the right track

Norfolk-NS negotiate over light rail property

Norfolk is one step closer to light rail.

The city is negotiating to buy five miles of abandoned track from Norfolk Southern, from City Hall to the Virginia Beach border, beginning at Park Avenue in downtown Norfolk and ending at the intersection of Kempsville and Newtown roads. The two sides may reach an agreement by the end of this month.

[urbanvb]

This is great news. My understanding is LRT is trolley-like cars that use electric via overheard electric wiring. Can someone clear up the differences in this and other train services such as the Metro in DC? The Metro is the only mass transit system I have used and I want to be clear on the type of service Norfolk hopes to build.

[rusthebuss]

This is great news. My understanding is LRT is trolley-like cars that use electric via overheard electric wiring. Can someone clear up the differences in this and other train services such as the Metro in DC? The Metro is the only mass transit system I have used and I want to be clear on the type of service Norfolk hopes to build.

the metro that you are referring to actually uses the track for the circuit. That is why if you cross the two sides of the track you will be DIE!

[hoobo]

the metro that you are referring to actually uses the track for the circuit. That is why if you cross the two sides of the track you will be DIE!

Doesn't the DC Metro use overhead wires when the track is exposed and a third electrified rail when the track is underground?

[rusthebuss]

Doesn't the DC Metro use overhead wires when the track is exposed and a third electrified rail when the track is underground?

You are probably right!

[urbanfan]

Doesn't the DC Metro use overhead wires when the track is exposed and a third electrified rail when the track is underground?

No. The metro is a subway, commonly called heavy rail. Heavy rail uses a "third rail" The third rail is what supplies the power to the subway. There are no overhead catenary cables in the heavy rail system. Chicago, New york, L.A. , Philly, and others with heavy rail use this system. Also, baltimores subway uses this system, not to be confused with the light rail baltimore has too. And yes, if you contact the third rail, you will be lit up like a christmas tree. However, you would have a really black tan if that's what your going for.

[urbanvb]

I have never seen any wires on the Metro. I think the train uses only dedicated ground rails.

[willy]

I want to be clear on the type of service Norfolk hopes to build.

This is similar to what Norfolk is planning. (Houston's METRO)

[urbanvb]

I wonder how this system will utilize the roads. By that I mean will the trains travel only on the streets or combination of streets and dedicated areas. I also wonder how this will affect traffic as the train will have to stop traffic to cross certain streets.

Edited November 28, 2005 by guynvb

[urbanfan]

I wonder how this system will utilize the roads. By that I mean will the trains travel only on the streets or combination of streets and dedicated areas. I also wonder how this will affect traffic as the train will have to stop traffic to cross certain streets.

The LRT will travel on city streets from EVMS to just past harbor park. From there it will travel in the NS dedicated right of way. Traveling through the city streets will cause the LRT to move slowly Approx. 15-20 MPH, however once it hits the NS right of way, the LRT can hit speeds of up to 55 MPH or more.

[wrldcoupe4]

D.C. has heavy rail transit (I think that's the term for it)

Norfolk would be getting something like this I imagine:

[vdogg]

You know if you guys just look in the projects listing under the post titled "Norfolk light rail project" I posted renderings of exactly how LRT will look in Norfolk. They are the actual project renderings.

An example: