Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[ronsmytheiii]

Norfolk just doesn't have any sort of growing industry. Our regions income is pretty much all welfare from the gubbmint.

I resent that statement, government jobs in the form of civil service and military are not welfare, they are a service to the general public.

[calwinston]

I resent that statement, government jobs in the form of civil service and military are not welfare, they are a service to the general public.

I agree Ronsmytheiii! But it would be great if Hampton Roads was able to diversify and not depend on the mostly the federal government for growth! Northern Virginia is a prime example of how they diversified their economy with technology, banking, trade, and marketing instead of just depending on the federal government for economic growth!

Northern Virginia

http://www.northernvirginia.org/

http://www.fairfaxcountyeda.org/

www.arlingtonvirginiausa.com

http://www.alexecon.org/

Maybe this is the reason Hampton Roads has not been growing as fast as the other large metro areas in the state. (Northern Virginia and Richmond)

Richmond

http://www.grpva.com/

Hampton Roads

http://www.hreda.com/

Edited July 2, 2010 by calwinston

[VBIllini13]

it would be great if Hampton Roads was able to diversify

Easier said than done.

[urbanlife]

Easier said than done.

Just ask Detroit. okay, I kid, I really need to go to bed.

[varider]

HRT will start testing the light rail system this month..

I can't wait to see trains rolling through the city..

Less than 10 months until revenue service begins..

Oh, and I thought it would be fun if we made a little game where everyone guesses average ridership figures for the Tide in it's first month & month 12.

If you write your estimate on here, I will write it down on a piece of paper with your name and then we cann look back on it and have a good laugh?

Well if you guys want to play.. my estimate for month one is 5,555/ day.. month 12 is 8,888

[757hokie]

I resent that statement, government jobs in the form of civil service and military are not welfare, they are a service to the general public.

It is, by and large welfare, or at least in my tenure with the government. I know for a fact, that the payroll (read: tax payer dollars) in my department alone could be reduced by 60% so many people come to work and are just either incompetent, lazy, or both, and do nothing but collect benefits. Partially that's just American culture, but it's also because at a government job, there isn't any performance based growth, it's all about who's been there the longest. So unlike in places with a large private corporate sector, the majority of the wealth is going to people who have just "gotten by" for as long as they can, instead of bright young(er) people that fuel the wheels of change, and give an area a progressive atmosphere conducive to growth.

[VBIllini13]

incompetent, lazy, or both, and do nothing but collect benefits. Partially that's just American culture

Now I resent that statement. Americans are harder working than workers of any other country, and we are the most versatile as well. And that's not only my belief, but it comes from the mouth of Mr. Progressive himself: President Obama.

[mistermetaj]

According to Forbes Magazine in 2008 the US was the 8th hardest working country in the world. Out of 195 countries in the world, I'd say that supports our culture of being hard working and versatile vs. a lazy welfare country. No political quotes or stated beliefs needed, just objective facts.

Edited July 6, 2010 by mistermetaj

[urbanlife]

It is, by and large welfare, or at least in my tenure with the government. I know for a fact, that the payroll (read: tax payer dollars) in my department alone could be reduced by 60% so many people come to work and are just either incompetent, lazy, or both, and do nothing but collect benefits. Partially that's just American culture, but it's also because at a government job, there isn't any performance based growth, it's all about who's been there the longest. So unlike in places with a large private corporate sector, the majority of the wealth is going to people who have just "gotten by" for as long as they can, instead of bright young(er) people that fuel the wheels of change, and give an area a progressive atmosphere conducive to growth.

I am sure you could argue this with just about any company out there. Heck, off the top of my head, I could think of a few areas they could cut to save money and reduce the number of people that are not working as hard. But the idea of a happy work environment is not having employees working at 100% all the time or they get burnt out and productivity goes down. And I doubt you are saying it would be a good thing for the economy to cut 60% of its workforce.

Now if you are saying that a good portion of tax dollars are going to welfare in the way of hospitals and medical care, then you are more than likely right thanks to the baby boomers hitting the old age market.

[cpeakesqr]

It is, by and large welfare, or at least in my tenure with the government. I know for a fact, that the payroll (read: tax payer dollars) in my department alone could be reduced by 60% so many people come to work and are just either incompetent, lazy, or both, and do nothing but collect benefits. Partially that's just American culture, but it's also because at a government job, there isn't any performance based growth, it's all about who's been there the longest. So unlike in places with a large private corporate sector, the majority of the wealth is going to people who have just "gotten by" for as long as they can, instead of bright young(er) people that fuel the wheels of change, and give an area a progressive atmosphere conducive to growth.

I don't resent your comment, but it's all bunk.

Welfare, as originally mentioned in this thread, was equated with military dollars. That's just not true. There seems to be a general confusion of terms in this place.

Also, you cannot paint public sector jobs with such broad strokes. There are certainly performance-based mechanisms in place for the talented to rise vis-a-vis the "incompetent" or "lazy." In fact, some agencies have an "up or out" policy. In the same way, the private sector cannot be generalized as strictly performance-based or as a meritocracy. Anyone in the private sector can recount tales of incompetent bosses that just "get by" by being friendly with people at the top.

[Sky06]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this thread was about light rail.

[VBIllini13]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/two-more-lightrail-crossings-need-be-rebuilt

Hope you guys like negative comments. There are over 100 comments on this article already!

[urbanlife]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/two-more-lightrail-crossings-need-be-rebuilt

Hope you guys like negative comments. There are over 100 comments on this article already!

Most of those comments are from the same group of people, so much like anything involving the newspaper these days, the 15 people that are always commenting on articles are not the 15 people that make up the census of information on opinions. Besides the article sounds like minor rebuilds due to soft ground, which is always going to be a problem in that metro.

[BFG]

http://hamptonroads....need-be-rebuilt

Hope you guys like negative comments. There are over 100 comments on this article already!

Doesn't surprise me. The HR.com posters are the most negative, closed-minded people I have ever seen. They are the epitome of the average HR resident who is against anything resembling progress, and refuse to see long-run potential.

[Telmnstr]

Dude, our stupid gov't gave people MILLIONS of dollars to do something, gave them a HUGE BONUS for doing it something sort of on time, then it turns out it's all garbage. Now it has to be torn up, and redone, and they are going to PAY FOR IT AGAIN with OUR MONEY. A private company wouldn't PAY AGAIN. They'd demand it be corrected.

People have a huge right to be negative.

Gov't wastes money at an epic rate, at a time they really shouldn't be doing that.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Telmnstr

[urbanlife]

Dude, our stupid gov't gave people MILLIONS of dollars to do something, gave them a HUGE BONUS for doing it something sort of on time, then it turns out it's all garbage. Now it has to be torn up, and redone, and they are going to PAY FOR IT AGAIN with OUR MONEY. A private company wouldn't PAY AGAIN. They'd demand it be corrected.

People have a huge right to be negative.

Gov't wastes money at an epic rate, at a time they really shouldn't be doing that.

Compared to the overall cost of this project, these repairs are very minor. Plus they used standard rail crossing designs to initially help keep the cost down, if these improved crossing were done first, the article would of read LRT is wasting money with high cost crossing rather than using standard crossings.

There is a comment in the article that I find alittle funny that is pointing out that this is the newest LR system, so that should automatically mean all the kinks are worked out, but what the commenter doesnt realize is that this is the first LR line in Hampton Roads and like any urban project, the challenges to each site is always unique and new. I am guessing no one realized how soft the land underneath these lines were really gonna be and settling has always been an issue throughout Hampton Roads because of the soft ground it has.

Basically they have installed a huge system and are currently working out the little errors that have come up since construction began that might of been unforeseen.

[calwinston]

Compared to the overall cost of this project, these repairs are very minor. Plus they used standard rail crossing designs to initially help keep the cost down, if these improved crossing were done first, the article would of read LRT is wasting money with high cost crossing rather than using standard crossings.

There is a comment in the article that I find alittle funny that is pointing out that this is the newest LR system, so that should automatically mean all the kinks are worked out, but what the commenter doesnt realize is that this is the first LR line in Hampton Roads and like any urban project, the challenges to each site is always unique and new. I am guessing no one realized how soft the land underneath these lines were really gonna be and settling has always been an issue throughout Hampton Roads because of the soft ground it has.

Basically they have installed a huge system and are currently working out the little errors that have come up since construction began that might of been unforeseen.

Hopefully you guys dont have a money pit! I for one want light rail to suceed in Hampton Roads. If this fails then light rail will never be expanded in Hampton Roads for at least another 25 years.

I guess somebody was not doing their job when surveying the soil. If you guys have settling now without the trains rolling over the tracks then you might be in for a rude awakening later down the road!

[VBIllini13]

A private company wouldn't PAY AGAIN. They'd demand it be corrected.

Gov't wastes money at an epic rate, at a time they really shouldn't be doing that.

I agree with you on those two statements right there. I really wish a private company had done this rather than this be a completely government-run project. Unfortunately, mass-transit is a big money-loser and there's no market for it. Since public transit is a necessity, however, it is the government's responsibility to ensure mobility throughout the city. If only there were private LRT operators like there were in the early 20th century. They'd be much more efficient. Guaranteed.

[urbanlife]

Hopefully you guys dont have a money pit! I for one want light rail to suceed in Hampton Roads. If this fails then light rail will never be expanded in Hampton Roads for at least another 25 years.

I guess somebody was not doing their job when surveying the soil. If you guys have settling now without the trains rolling over the tracks then you might be in for a rude awakening later down the road!

Often times when new projects like this begin, the number of people working on it is very limited and in Norfolk's case, this is a very minor issue compared to other cities that have started light rail. Seattle is dealing with digging tunnels for parts of its rail system and have hit many snags to to limited funding and limited people working on it in the beginning.

As for this succeeding, I think it will probably be on par with what Tacoma currently has going, which will take a slow time gaining attention from people as it takes time for people to shift their lives to use it. But it will continue to gain momentum. The connecting of the oceanfront, NOB, and the airport are going to be very key factors in making this succeed in the long run.

The first people that will start to use it are going to be the people looking for cheaper parking options whether it be going to work or events downtown. Events are also going to be heavy use times for it because people that ride it into downtown will have an edge on the traffic leaving downtown when an event ends.

But this definitely cannot be seen as a singular project, or an end all to traffic problems. This is simply something that needs to be expanded to provide for the people of the region as an alternative, which may lead to people being able to live alternative lifestyles that might not require a car or a car on a daily basis. But the city and region still have a long way to go before they get to that point.

[Sky06]

I really wish a private company had done this rather than this be a completely government-run project.

I don't. Where would the money have come from? If we waited for a private company to invest in this, we'd still be waiting. What so many people continue to forget is what made this project happen is the government stepped up. This project is funded primarily through the federal govenment, with a lot of it kicked in by the state. Amd if they are going to invest in it, they'd never give oversight to someone else. Nor should they. Keep in mind that the companies doing the work are still private firms. Doesn't matter who oversees it or pays for it, if the subcontractors still screw up.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Sky06

[VBIllini13]

I don't. Where would the money have come from? If we waited for a private company to invest in this, we'd still be waiting. What so many people continue to forget is what made this project happen is the government stepped up. This project is funded primarily through the federal govenment, with a lot of it kicked in by the state. Amd if they are going to invest in it, they'd never give oversight to someone else. Nor should they. Keep in mind that the companies doing the work are still private firms. Doesn't matter who oversees it or pays for it, if the subcontractors still screw up.

Of course the government is going to pay for it. For a private firm to operate light rail would be a huge money-loser. I'm just saying I hope one day (in a perfect world today) light rail will become popular and used enough so that different firms will be able to compete like different streetcar companies (privately owned) once did in the earlier part of the 20th century.

But to answer your question where the money would have come from: typically private firms have capital and money that they get through producing goods or services and they'd spend it as an investment in light rail (In this case). Example: Dominion Virginia Power decides that with its profits, it wants to build and then operate a light rail system. All it would need to do would be go through the design review, planning commission, city council, and civic league processes and acquire the rights-of-way.

Hopefully one day public transportation will return to being an activity of the free market, but for now I am, indeed, thankful to have this being built.

[urbanlife]

Of course the government is going to pay for it. For a private firm to operate light rail would be a huge money-loser. I'm just saying I hope one day (in a perfect world today) light rail will become popular and used enough so that different firms will be able to compete like different streetcar companies (privately owned) once did in the earlier part of the 20th century.

But to answer your question where the money would have come from: typically private firms have capital and money that they get through producing goods or services and they'd spend it as an investment in light rail (In this case). Example: Dominion Virginia Power decides that with its profits, it wants to build and then operate a light rail system. All it would need to do would be go through the design review, planning commission, city council, and civic league processes and acquire the rights-of-way.

Hopefully one day public transportation will return to being an activity of the free market, but for now I am, indeed, thankful to have this being built.

Cars would have to go extinct first.

[VBIllini13]

Cars would have to go extinct first.

They wouldn't have to go extinct, because that will never happen. They would, however, have to become useless and inefficient in urban areas.

[varider]

Apparently, the rail line has been electrified from Newtown to Ballentine & testing has begun or will begin very soon.. according to HRTs website.

[urbanvb]

^ exciting stuff. Can't wait for this train to be up and running. We should have a meet up on it's maiden run.

Edited July 13, 2010 by urbanvb