Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[cpeakesqr]

The city needs to get someone who doesn't think Norfolk should be a giant history reenactment park. I know these are preliminary designs, but I think they set the mood for what will eventually be built. Everything doesn't have to match. Has anyone seen the design of the new San Francisco terminal? It's amazing. Norfolk couldn't come close to providing the funds for something like that, but that doesn't mean we have to stick with these rehashed buildings.

I am underwhelmed by the vision.

[Norfolk4Life]

i wont be happy until i find out if they are really planning to later build a parking garage on the bus transfer place>>

[Henry_Ryto]

No, it was the VB citizenry that voted "NO" on the light rail referendum of the '90's. Meyera as always been a proponent of light rail in Va. Beach.

Meyera gave lip service to LRT and mass transit in general, but then never led on it. Her last 6 years as Mayor she couldn't muster 6 votes for anything. She was a cheerleader, not a leader.

It's only thanks to Will Sessoms being elected Mayor that we've pushed as far forward on the project as we have. The pro referen-dumb sentiment of some Councilmen shows how afraid they are to do anything.

As for the 1999 proposal, it died under it's own weight: over $69 million/mile, stamped "Not Recomended" by the FTA, the land hadn't been rezoned, etc. Also, we would have lost Oceana had we gone forward with TOD then. Now we're planning around it.

However, past failures have eliminated the margin for error. Virginia Beach executes this time, or we hit a wall.

[rusthebuss]

where did you find that rendering from? HRTs website?

i wont be happy until i find out if they are really planning to later build a parking garage on the bus transfer place>>

[urbanlife]

The city needs to get someone who doesn't think Norfolk should be a giant history reenactment park. I know these are preliminary designs, but I think they set the mood for what will eventually be built. Everything doesn't have to match. Has anyone seen the design of the new San Francisco terminal? It's amazing. Norfolk couldn't come close to providing the funds for something like that, but that doesn't mean we have to stick with these rehashed buildings.

I am underwhelmed by the vision.

I agree with you on this one, this is a moment for Norfolk to really put forth a strong effort to have a symbol of great architecture in the city that would be seen by a good number of people each year. This preliminary design is underwhelming to say the least.

[lammius]

I agree with you on this one, this is a moment for Norfolk to really put forth a strong effort to have a symbol of great architecture in the city that would be seen by a good number of people each year. This preliminary design is underwhelming to say the least.

It reminds me of a value-engineered masterpiece, the commuter rail station in Rahway, NJ

http://www.city-data.com/picfilesc/picc31592.php

[cpeakesqr]

It reminds me of a value-engineered masterpiece, the commuter rail station in Rahway, NJ

http://www.city-data.com/picfilesc/picc31592.php

They copied the design brick for brick. I can't remember the guy's name that does these drawings, but he should be fired.

[Norfolk4Life]

where did you find that rendering from? HRTs website?

it was in the TIGER II application that was attached to the PilotOnline story. i always try to save a copy when I find those. you can download it from my blog >http://757hamptonroads.com/pdfs/36601134-Multi-Modal-Transportation-Center-Tiger-II.pdf 

Its an interesting document

[mistermetaj]

I agree with you on this one, this is a moment for Norfolk to really put forth a strong effort to have a symbol of great architecture in the city that would be seen by a good number of people each year. This preliminary design is underwhelming to say the least.

I disagree. Norfolk should do their best to reclaim some history and work to rebuild the old rail station they destroyed and possibly create an "expansion" with a modern glassy look to it. There is not enough money in Norfolk to create a completely modern station that would really be architecturally significant.

What I don't want to see is anything precast. I want good materials. Limestone, bricks, transparent glass.

Edited September 7, 2010 by mistermetaj

[vdogg]

i wont be happy until i find out if they are really planning to later build a parking garage on the bus transfer place>>

It appears that the bus transfer place will be moved to the section at the bottom left under that green cover, to make room for the parking garage.

[ronsmytheiii]

It appears that the bus transfer place will be moved to the section at the bottom left under that green cover, to make room for the parking garage.

If so, why not put it there in the first place instead of moving it later?

[virginia pe]

If so, why not put it there in the first place instead of moving it later?

So that it can safely remain in operation during construction of the parking garage.

[Norfolk4Life]

i spoke to the city about this. it will actually be inside the parking structure, on the first level

[mikeas]

I see they want to turn the boat house into a ferry landing. I'm fine with that but with the amount of money they are spending on that part of the project I'd arrange it so the property can be developed in the future. I envision a residential development like the old piers in Freemason were turned into with a small marina.

I also would rather see two independent parking garages wrapped with other development. That parcel is huge and could use the additional street grid for future development and integration into Lyons Point, the small mostly abandoned neighborhood to the east.

[Henry_Ryto]

i spoke to the city about this. it will actually be inside the parking structure, on the first level

Nice. That will provide bus riders cover in the rain, shade in the heat, etc.

[brikkman]

I see they want to turn the boat house into a ferry landing. I'm fine with that but with the amount of money they are spending on that part of the project I'd arrange it so the property can be developed in the future. I envision a residential development like the old piers in Freemason were turned into with a small marina.

I also would rather see two independent parking garages wrapped with other development. That parcel is huge and could use the additional street grid for future development and integration into Lyons Point, the small mostly abandoned neighborhood to the east.

I always wanted to know what that area was called, I just called it south of NSU. That is the next hidden jewel of the area if you ask me. That entire area can be "Norfolk-a-New" if done right. Especially considering that SQP is out... It is one piece of property back there that looks somewhat historic, but I doubt it, I think they are using it as apts..

[rusthebuss]

I always wanted to know what that area was called, I just called it south of NSU. That is the next hidden jewel of the area if you ask me. That entire area can be "Norfolk-a-New" if done right. Especially considering that SQP is out... It is one piece of property back there that looks somewhat historic, but I doubt it, I think they are using it as apts..

What do you mean SPQ is out?

[brikkman]

What do you mean SPQ is out?

That the development will be for new public housing more or less, no benefit to city growth..

[vdogg]

That the development will be for new public housing more or less, no benefit to city growth..

Where did u hear this? It was part of my understanding that they were going to significantly limit public housing in that area.

[urbanlife]

I disagree. Norfolk should do their best to reclaim some history and work to rebuild the old rail station they destroyed and possibly create an "expansion" with a modern glassy look to it. There is not enough money in Norfolk to create a completely modern station that would really be architecturally significant.

What I don't want to see is anything precast. I want good materials. Limestone, bricks, transparent glass.

But that is what you would see if the city tries to do anything that might in any way try to recreate what the city has lost. Bricklayers no longer exist because of the high cost of labor, it is much cheaper creating precast walls of brick to be hung and made to look like old fashion brick walls, but usually failing horribly in the process. There is little to no evidence of any bit of history that once stood in that portion of the city, it would be a waste of time to try and recreate any of it with modern day building technologies because it will more than likely be underdone and turned into something that looks faux historic.

To do something architecturally significant doesn't mean it needs to be overpriced, it just means it needs to be thoughtful in reflecting what Norfolk wishes to show as their future image to anyone entering the city. It could easily be a structure that casts a simple gesture and expresses the materials that were used to make the building....which in turn would be more in line with what you would like this to be rather than what will probably happen with this structure.

[Titoroski]

so, seriously? No one is gonna talk about the fact that all of our stations look like Tipis!? Seriously? Do they plan on expanding these are do we need to say something about it? I have searched all over the net for similar styles and the only ones that come out looking like that are streetcar designs, maybe.

[Glassoul]

so, seriously? No one is gonna talk about the fact that all of our stations look like Tipis!? Seriously? Do they plan on expanding these are do we need to say something about it? I have searched all over the net for similar styles and the only ones that come out looking like that are streetcar designs, maybe.

The project blew its budget by over 40% and is 2 years behind schedule, plus Norfolk just realized it's going to cost them $10M/yr to run it. Should be happy that the stations are being built at all...

Edited September 19, 2010 by Glassoul

[Norfolk4Life]

The project blew its budget by over 40% and is 2 years behind schedule, plus Norfolk just realized it's going to cost them $10M/yr to run it. Should be happy that the stations are being built at all...

i think the pilot's number comparison was flawed. they said it would cost $6-9 million to operate the LRT and the feeder buses ON TOP OF what they currently pay ($9 million). the problem with that is that the 'feeder buses' are not new routes. they are modifying existing routes. that means it won't be a completely new cost. I think that the $6-9 million figure was the cost of the whole LRT and peripherals. since the feeder buses are now included in the LRT budget, they would reduce the existing bus budget.

[Titoroski]

i think the pilot's number comparison was flawed. they said it would cost $6-9 million to operate the LRT and the feeder buses ON TOP OF what they currently pay ($9 million). the problem with that is that the 'feeder buses' are not new routes. they are modifying existing routes. that means it won't be a completely new cost. I think that the $6-9 million figure was the cost of the whole LRT and peripherals. since the feeder buses are now included in the LRT budget, they would reduce the existing bus budget.

Very good observation N4L! I thought the same thing.

[Titoroski]

oh yeah, Glassgow......If I recall correctly, those were the designs for the stations well before the budget was blown. Nice try homie but that 40% info is new. Those designs were the "goal."