Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[urbanlife]

New article about the Tide:

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/11/odu-survey-says-residents-favor-light-rail-expansion

As probably discussed before, it is stupid NOT to extend the Tide from EVMS to the Naval Base with a major stop at ODU. Imagine how much use students would use the Tide going to Granby Street and downtown!

I am actually surprised this starter line doesn't go to ODU and NOB. I am really hoping that once this new line opens up that the city begins construction on an extension up to NOB as soon as possible. The idea of LRT is to target ridership and send the initial lines to where the higher populations are. For Norfolk it would make sense to have the line run up to NOB, with a park and ride at the Newtown station, which it wouldn't be far fetched to see NOB running a shuttle bus through the base for the people commuting to there, which I am sure the region would pick up plenty of riders that are tired of sitting in that I-64 traffic every day.

[virginia pe]

I am actually surprised this starter line doesn't go to ODU and NOB. I am really hoping that once this new line opens up that the city begins construction on an extension up to NOB as soon as possible. The idea of LRT is to target ridership and send the initial lines to where the higher populations are. For Norfolk it would make sense to have the line run up to NOB, with a park and ride at the Newtown station, which it wouldn't be far fetched to see NOB running a shuttle bus through the base for the people commuting to there, which I am sure the region would pick up plenty of riders that are tired of sitting in that I-64 traffic every day.

I still feel the only way light rail will go to the naval station via ODU is if Virginia Beach opts out. Most of the people who want to go to the naval station on light rail are in Virginia Beach, and they do not want to go to downtown Norfolk to get there. If Virginia Beach goes for light rail, then light rail will eventually go to the naval station along the Military Highway / I-64 corridor. If Virginia Beach refuses light rail again, then Norfolk will have to decide if they want to extend light rail to ODU and the base along Hampton Boulevard. Personally, without Virginia Beach, I do not think Norfolk has the guts to tackle another light rail project on their own.

[Henry_Ryto]

I still feel the only way light rail will go to the naval station via ODU is if Virginia Beach opts out. Most of the people who want to go to the naval station on light rail are in Virginia Beach, and they do not want to go to downtown Norfolk to get there. If Virginia Beach goes for light rail, then light rail will eventually go to the naval station along the Military Highway / I-64 corridor. If Virginia Beach refuses light rail again, then Norfolk will have to decide if they want to extend light rail to ODU and the base along Hampton Boulevard. Personally, without Virginia Beach, I do not think Norfolk has the guts to tackle another light rail project on their own.

As an 18 year resident of Virginia Beach, I adamantly disagree. What would we go to on Military Highway besides ORF? Extending the Starter LIne north from downtown would give us downtown Norfolk, ODU, and the Navy base all on a single line. That would make Virginia Beach LRT much more viable.

[metalman]

For me, it would make sense to have a transfer station at Newtown Road for the I64 line to NOB. A raised second line could intersect at Newtown and follow the interstate overpass to the interchange and stick with it for stops at ORF/Botanical Gardens, NOB, etc. and in the other direction maybe other stops at Indian River/Regent Univ/CBN, Greenbrier, Battlefield. This would include Chesapeake, Va. Beach, and Norfolk.

Va. Beach could benefit from a transfer station and line running up and down Independence Blvd connecting NAB Little Creek to the court house with a left turn on PA rd. from inde. That would connect Little Creek, Haygood, Town Center, Green Run, TCC/The edge of Salem area, Sentara P.A./ Amphitheater, and City Hall/Courthouse.

They're already widening Princess Anne Rd from Dam Neck to the Court House too.

Yes/No?

[varider]

& what if ridership is so low on the starter line from Newtown to Medical Center that the region abandons all hope for extending the rail system? I just can't imagine many people riding from Newtown to Downtown. Why would they?

[Norfolk4Life]

as far as I know, the city wants both a line from Military Hwy up I64 to NOB AND a line running from Downtown to ODU to NOB. They would function well as their own lines in the own rights.

[ronsmytheiii]

<br />as far as I know, the city wants <i>both</i> a line from Military Hwy up I64 to NOB <b>AND</b> a line running from Downtown to ODU to NOB. They would function well as their own lines in the own rights.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That is true with the overall vision, the big question is which line would operate first. I have a sneaking suspicion it will go from military highway/airport, to the base first, as ti would hopefully increase Light rail traffic more quickly and therefore more likely to get a second line from DT though ODU than doing so in the other way.

[urbanlife]

<br /><br /><br />

That is true with the overall vision, the big question is which line would operate first. I have a sneaking suspicion it will go from military highway/airport, to the base first, as ti would hopefully increase Light rail traffic more quickly and therefore more likely to get a second line from DT though ODU than doing so in the other way.

It really depends on who is the driving force for any extension is, if Norfolk is in control of the expansion like they are with this starter line, then it will be extended up to NOB through ODU first. If the military is the driving force for an extension, then it will be up I-64. Norfolk would much rather have rail lines running to and through its downtown to help strengthen its core, running an initial line up I-64 would not do this for the city, but for the military it would make more sense for them to run it up through I-64 to make it a much quicker commute to the base.

[brikkman]

A self sustaining line that would work for the area is up 564 to the base, that sort of line would be packed every day. Extend the highway to account for it and shoot it straight up 564, then wrap around to the network rd. Would not be needed ont he weekend, but M-F, would work.

Also, I was in chicago back in oct and took the train from midway to the hotel and back from the hotel to the airport, that sucker was jammed packed the entire time. I would how that would work here. I'm sure it would not be that packed, but I just wonder.....

I would guess in order for that to work, a line from DT to the airport, from VTC to airport and possibly Chesapeake somewhere?

Edited December 8, 2010 by brikkman

[varider]

Norfolk's starter line is expected to open in less than five months... everything is complete except for a few sidewalk repairs, station finishes, etc. Testing has begun throughout the entire line.. & while I'm excited for rail transit in Norfolk.. I'm very dissapointed by how cheap it looks and it's like they ran out of money or something (oh wait, they did :{sodEmoji.|}) i was looking at this video of a Charlotte station and it just seems so much nicer (

) the platform is longer, they can use two cars, and the sounds are nice..Oh Norfolk, we can't do anything 100%, can we.

[Titoroski]

Norfolk's starter line is expected to open in less than five months... everything is complete except for a few sidewalk repairs, station finishes, etc. Testing has begun throughout the entire line.. & while I'm excited for rail transit in Norfolk.. I'm very dissapointed by how cheap it looks and it's like they ran out of money or something (oh wait, they did :{sodEmoji.|}) i was looking at this video of a Charlotte station and it just seems so much nicer (

) the platform is longer, they can use two cars, and the sounds are nice..Oh Norfolk, we can't do anything 100%, can we.

Funny, when I mentioned that, no one gave a rat's #$% and shot me down for not just being happy that it was built at all. Honesyly homeslice, I'm just assuming Norfolk has plans on upgrading the stations in the coming years and this is just for "starters." But I do intend on finding out because those things look worst than most of the bus stops actually. What's funny about it is that even in the planning stages, this is what they envisioned. It's not even like their was a plan that included better stations but it had to be downgraded. Actually, maybe their were plans that I just didn't see. I don't know. Hope they step it up later.

[brikkman]

Funny, when I mentioned that, no one gave a rat's #$% and shot me down for not just being happy that it was built at all. Honesyly homeslice, I'm just assuming Norfolk has plans on upgrading the stations in the coming years and this is just for "starters." But I do intend on finding out because those things look worst than most of the bus stops actually. What's funny about it is that even in the planning stages, this is what they envisioned. It's not even like their was a plan that included better stations but it had to be downgraded. Actually, maybe their were plans that I just didn't see. I don't know. Hope they step it up later.

It happens dude...

To add, you would have thought they would have did one really nice like the mall or harbor park, but not one. They have no kind of wind shield what so ever. Like Titoroski pointed out, the bus stations are comparable if not better because they do have wind shields. I just can not believe they did not consider wind shields of any form. How do they expect professionals to ride it, if when they wait at a station, they get wet from sideways wind and rain? That had to been a complete oversight. When I was in chicago, they had wind shield, weather resistance shelters at all the stops I went past. Of course they had direct building access as well, very important if you ask me. That means, for professionals, its only viable in warm months.

But this thing is definitely built on bare minimum budget, that is for sure.

I also still believe that NSU students and teens will be the best riders of this system, this is why the extension to at least odu is critical if you ask me. The one thing you have to remember about colleges is that they get new freshmen every year. One of the most problematic issues with schools in the city that affect campus life is the access to urban areas (DT) which turns out to be a PLUS for LRT. Every tom, sue, bunk, and harry wants to go downtown, this is true of all college students who go to school in the city. They want to work at the mall, shop at the mall, and consider you can't have a car freshmen year in college with out jumping through some hoops, this will keep ridership somewhat constant in that regard. Remember, every year, every semester, the cycle repeats and some will always ride it.

Edited December 13, 2010 by brikkman

[Titoroski]

Yeah. It's pretty sad. All and all, I just really hope the city has plans on upgrading the stops as soon as possible. I understand that money is low and some, if not most, larger cities in the USA don't even have a rail system, but does this mean that Norfolk should settle for less for that reason alone. I don't believe so and I intend on making a point of it. Who's with me?

[mlsimons]

I'm sorry but being out of the country I really could use some new pics to help describe the situation that is occurring with these "bus shelters"

[varider]

I definitely just saw Mayor Sessoms all over WAVY 10 rambling on about how his cold feet in light of the light rail fraud scandal thing... He said maybe 20/30 years down the line light rail will be goood and that the process is now slowed down in light of the new developments..

I say, OH WELL!

On to ODU!! On to the Airport and the Naval Station!!! Keep pushing forward Norfolk.

[VBIllini13]

I definitely just saw Mayor Sessoms all over WAVY 10 rambling on about how his cold feet in light of the light rail fraud scandal thing... He said maybe 20/30 years down the line light rail will be goood and that the process is now slowed down in light of the new developments..

I say, OH WELL!

On to ODU!! On to the Airport and the Naval Station!!! Keep pushing forward Norfolk.

Mayor Sessoms is only one man on Virginia Beach's city council.

[ronsmytheiii]

Hampton Roads Transit will tow a light-rail vehicle through parts of downtown Thursday as part of its testing program, to ensure the train makes proper contact with the overhead wires that will eventually power it. The vehicle will be towed from the Norfolk State University station at Brambleton Avenue to the MacArthur Square station at City Hall Avenue. Testing will last from 7:30 a.m. through 5:30 p.m.

Flaggers and police escorts will direct traffic. The test is dependent on weather conditions.

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/12/hrt-test-lightrail-line-towing-vehicle

[mlsimons]

If Virginia Beach doesn't pursue light rail when the EIS comes out, I'm moving to a real city (and I don't mean Norfolk).

I've waited too long for VB to stop acting suburban, and I've got the credentials now to land me a job somewhere away from this suburban republican cul-de-sac!

Brain Drain is real.

[urbanlife]

If Virginia Beach doesn't pursue light rail when the EIS comes out, I'm moving to a real city (and I don't mean Norfolk).

I've waited too long for VB to stop acting suburban, and I've got the credentials now to land me a job somewhere away from this suburban republican cul-de-sac!

Brain Drain is real.

That is the one of the many reasons why I moved away, which that I ended up finding Portland which turned out to be exactly the kind of city I always wanted to live in. Plus one day, depending on where I go for grad school, I could end up moving to Chicago and live in one of our country's great urban cities. I could never of had this life if I stayed in Hampton Roads and I don't think I would of ever been that happy living in an area that thought so completely different from me.

I do hope that once this gets up and running, that it has a strong initial success because people in this country have a serious case of short term memory and I can see light rail becoming more excepted once it starts running. Case in point, look at the VB Town Center and how many people were against that and how many thought it was the worst idea the city could ever do, and now the city has drawn up plans to turn that entire area into an actual downtown...something I thought I would never see in VB.

[Norfolk4Life]

That is the one of the many reasons why I moved away, which that I ended up finding Portland which turned out to be exactly the kind of city I always wanted to live in.  Plus one day, depending on where I go for grad school, I could end up moving to Chicago and live in one of our country's great urban cities.  I could never of had this life if I stayed in Hampton Roads and I don't think I would of ever been that happy living in an area that thought so completely different from me.

I do hope that once this gets up and running, that it has a strong initial success because people in this country have a serious case of short term memory and I can see light rail becoming more excepted once it starts running.  Case in point, look at the VB Town Center and how many people were against that and how many thought it was the worst idea the city could ever do, and now the city has drawn up plans to turn that entire area into an actual downtown...something I thought I would never see in VB.

im actually moving to Oregon for my fiance to do her masters degree at OSU and for me to do my BS at PDX. unlike most of my peers, however, my goal is to return to norfolk and change it. personally, i think thats what wrong with most of the country: everyone wants everything already done for them instead of seeing something that needs improvement and actually improving it. Its really not that difficult to change thinks, you just have to commit to it. 

[urbanlife]

im actually moving to Oregon for my fiance to do her masters degree at OSU and for me to do my BS at PDX. unlike most of my peers, however, my goal is to return to norfolk and change it. personally, i think thats what wrong with most of the country: everyone wants everything already done for them instead of seeing something that needs improvement and actually improving it. Its really not that difficult to change thinks, you just have to commit to it. 

Good for you two, but regarding the rest of your comment, it is a yes and no. It is very important for a city to have people in it that want to actively change it for the better. But for me, I would much rather live in a like minded area that has a type of city life that was established long before I came along. The way I see it for myself, is that I only have a limited number of years on this planet and I want to enjoy as much of it as possible and spending my life in a region that I was never a good fit for to begin with makes no sense for me...besides, health reasons alone made living in Hampton Roads unbearable. The humidity there every summer was horrible to my sinuses...so why put up with things like that when I can live in a liberal, bike friendly city that caters to people who are crafty, artistic, nerdy, weird, or whatever.

But with that said, I have no issue with someone wanting to move back there to try and make a difference, in many cases I support people who want to do that for where they grew up. For me, the only actually attachment I have to that region is the amount of time I spent growing up there, I no longer have family that lives there, but I will always care about the growth of that region because I have paid attention to it for so long, and it would be fun if I one day had the chance to do something architecture related there some time in the future.

[Titoroski]

im actually moving to Oregon for my fiance to do her masters degree at OSU and for me to do my BS at PDX. unlike most of my peers, however, my goal is to return to norfolk and change it. personally, i think thats what wrong with most of the country: everyone wants everything already done for them instead of seeing something that needs improvement and actually improving it. Its really not that difficult to change thinks, you just have to commit to it.

I would really like to catch up with you before you leave. I strongly believe we can make some serious moves together. I'll try facebook

As far as the train thing. I do believe a rugged test would be better. Kinda like, if it could work in the snow, it can work anywhere. But that isn't necessarily true when considering that heat also has effect on trains and tracks. Two test would be best but they could just go and check out some of the other systems in different cities with weather systems that differ from one another.

[urbanlife]

I would really like to catch up with you before you leave. I strongly believe we can make some serious moves together. I'll try facebook

As far as the train thing. I do believe a rugged test would be better. Kinda like, if it could work in the snow, it can work anywhere. But that isn't necessarily true when considering that heat also has effect on trains and tracks. Two test would be best but they could just go and check out some of the other systems in different cities with weather systems that differ from one another.

Actually the big issue we have with the light rail trains here during bad weather storms isn't with the snow when we get that, it is with the ice on the tracks and more so, the ice on the electric lines...usually the city is able to solve that issue by running the trains more regularly and nonstop, which means on those days we have 24hr train service, which also have its pluses in bad weather like that.

[Titoroski]

Actually the big issue we have with the light rail trains here during bad weather storms isn't with the snow when we get that, it is with the ice on the tracks and more so, the ice on the electric lines...usually the city is able to solve that issue by running the trains more regularly and nonstop, which means on those days we have 24hr train service, which also have its pluses in bad weather like that.

Wow. That last sentence is kinda a catch 22.

[varider]

Regarding the stations, the system doesn't open for five months.. are we sure they aren't planning to add windscreens to protect riders of the elements? I know the stations aren't done becasue i still see construction crews working on them.. I highly doubt they will leave the stations open to the elements.. if they do.. it's a major mistake and will deter hundreds, maybe thousands of potential riders.