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Norfolk Light Rail and Transit


urbanvb

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Well looking at the new Google Maps images of Norfolk, I have to say that I am no longer surprised about any of the cost issues for this starter line. With the number of bridges and raised section of tracks, not including any major road upgrades or road bridge work that might of needed to be done as well. This was definitely a costly line to install. It looks like the Virginia Beach section might actually cost much less than this starter line, even with having the rail raised through the entire Pembroke area, which I hope the VB side happens and soon because this line is just begging to be continued past Newtown Rd.

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  • 2 weeks later...

damn. that sux. The video was pretty cool though. So now their are delays on the shipment of safety equipment? Wow. What won't beat delayed? I was reading a lot of the comments made on the delay from the link you provided. Its amazing to me how many people know what they evidently don't want but can't seem to think of an alternative. What blows me even more is the amount of knowledge they seem to have for why it Lightrail is a bad idea but absolutely nothing when it comes to alternatives. Who are these people????

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damn. that sux. The video was pretty cool though. So now their are delays on the shipment of safety equipment? Wow. What won't beat delayed? I was reading a lot of the comments made on the delay from the link you provided. Its amazing to me how many people know what they evidently don't want but can't seem to think of an alternative. What blows me even more is the amount of knowledge they seem to have for why it Lightrail is a bad idea but absolutely nothing when it comes to alternatives. Who are these people????

Welcome to the black hole, the abyss that is Pilot Online. And by that, I mean, the negativity of most of their commenters. They are the most pessimistic, regressive-minded people I have ever come across in my life, and are determined to keep this area from being the nearly 2-million person metroplex that it is becoming. I try to avoid articles like this one, because I know exactly where they're headed.

Yeah, the delay sucks, but I'm not about to read the "I told you so!" comments there.

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Welcome to the black hole, the abyss that is Pilot Online. And by that, I mean, the negativity of most of their commenters. They are the most pessimistic, regressive-minded people I have ever come across in my life, and are determined to keep this area from being the nearly 2-million person metroplex that it is becoming. I try to avoid articles like this one, because I know exactly where they're headed.

Yeah, the delay sucks, but I'm not about to read the "I told you so!" comments there.

Well, I post there a lot! (Ethan is my name on there.) At the end of the day, the project is riddled with fraud. People stole lots of taxpayer money with the project. They personally took YOUR money and put it in THEIR pocket, and didn't work to earn it. That actually does make some people mad.

Currently, the way things are headed, America is going to fail. Yes, fail.

You can pretend that the gov't wasting tons of people's personal money is going to somehow make the area bigger. Having 2 million people with 1,500,000 of them under the poverty line isn't really going to help.

I'm against light rail. I think it's stupid. I think it's a total, absolute, waste of money. No technical advances came from it. It's redeployment of something that existed before and was torn out. I was all for maglev research and development. That system is forward looking. It is innovation. It leaves something for future generations to be proud of. It could have spawned new industry in Hampton Roads. It could have shown the world that America still invents stuff other than things to kill people with.

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Well, I post there a lot! (Ethan is my name on there.) At the end of the day, the project is riddled with fraud. People stole lots of taxpayer money with the project. They personally took YOUR money and put it in THEIR pocket, and didn't work to earn it. That actually does make some people mad.

Currently, the way things are headed, America is going to fail. Yes, fail.

You can pretend that the gov't wasting tons of people's personal money is going to somehow make the area bigger. Having 2 million people with 1,500,000 of them under the poverty line isn't really going to help.

I'm against light rail. I think it's stupid. I think it's a total, absolute, waste of money. No technical advances came from it. It's redeployment of something that existed before and was torn out. I was all for maglev research and development. That system is forward looking. It is innovation. It leaves something for future generations to be proud of. It could have spawned new industry in Hampton Roads. It could have shown the world that America still invents stuff other than things to kill people with.

Listen, I agree with many of your points, but I'd like to refute one thing. I'm not trying to berate you, I'd just like to make it more well known. People use the "18th Century technology" line a lot to bash transit. I mean, we tore it out once, why rebuild it? right?

Do you know why most streetcar systems were torn out mid-twentieth century? Because car companies bought the transit companies, liquidated them, destroyed the infrastructure, and burned the streetcars. The idea was that it's kind of hard to get around when there's no alternative to owning a car.

Edited by atp4984
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Listen, I agree with many of your points, but I'd like to refute one thing. I'm not trying to berate you, I'd just like to make it more well known. People use the "18th Century technology" line a lot to bash transit. I mean, we tore it out once, why rebuild it? right?

Do you know why most streetcar systems were torn out mid-twentieth century? Because car companies bought the transit companies, liquidated them, destroyed the infrastructure, and burned the streetcars. The idea was that it's kind of hard to get around when there's no alternative to owning a car.

Also, I absolutely love getting into with people on that site. There's something about the "I-have-an-opinion-so-I'm-an-authority/expert-on-the-matter, -oh, -and-here's-a-made-up-statistic-" kinda people that absolutely set me off.

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Well, I post there a lot! (Ethan is my name on there.) At the end of the day, the project is riddled with fraud. People stole lots of taxpayer money with the project. They personally took YOUR money and put it in THEIR pocket, and didn't work to earn it. That actually does make some people mad.

Currently, the way things are headed, America is going to fail. Yes, fail.

You can pretend that the gov't wasting tons of people's personal money is going to somehow make the area bigger. Having 2 million people with 1,500,000 of them under the poverty line isn't really going to help.

I'm against light rail. I think it's stupid. I think it's a total, absolute, waste of money. No technical advances came from it. It's redeployment of something that existed before and was torn out. I was all for maglev research and development. That system is forward looking. It is innovation. It leaves something for future generations to be proud of. It could have spawned new industry in Hampton Roads. It could have shown the world that America still invents stuff other than things to kill people with.

So who are these "they" people you are talking about? Is there actual proof that certain people have actually pocketed money from this project that didn't actually contribute to it? How is America going to fail? Is it going to fail because Norfolk is trying to build a light rail line? 1.5 million people in Hampton Roads under the poverty line, is there proof to back this up? Why do you think it is stupid? I think it is a great move for the city, so who is right with that opinion? Maglev research was an important task, but you are basing the entire research on a 6 block line, or however short it is, what if that was implicated to a much larger system?

Your rant seems to be very generalized about a general feeling of hatred to a project you seem to know very little about other than what you read in the paper. Have you done any research on this with other cities? Have you visited and rode light rail lines elsewhere?

Comments like this is what tends to annoy me the most, you come in here and just start spouting out generalized statements and expect everyone to say, "well damn, I think this guy is really on to something, maybe light rail really is stupid." Well I hate to break it to you, but this is not the Pilot and people actually have debatable opinions in here.

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Listen, I agree with many of your points, but I'd like to refute one thing. I'm not trying to berate you, I'd just like to make it more well known. People use the "18th Century technology" line a lot to bash transit. I mean, we tore it out once, why rebuild it? right?

Do you know why most streetcar systems were torn out mid-twentieth century? Because car companies bought the transit companies, liquidated them, destroyed the infrastructure, and burned the streetcars. The idea was that it's kind of hard to get around when there's no alternative to owning a car.

Yes, I've heard this argument. I first heard it in a documentary calling for the end of oil and everyone having to move back to city centers because the American way of life is not sustainable. It was called Return to Suburbia I believe. It had your usual suspects in it, and is pretty decent.

If we're going to do it, do it right.

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So who are these "they" people you are talking about? Is there actual proof that certain people have actually pocketed money from this project that didn't actually contribute to it? How is America going to fail? Is it going to fail because Norfolk is trying to build a light rail line? 1.5 million people in Hampton Roads under the poverty line, is there proof to back this up? Why do you think it is stupid? I think it is a great move for the city, so who is right with that opinion? Maglev research was an important task, but you are basing the entire research on a 6 block line, or however short it is, what if that was implicated to a much larger system?

Your rant seems to be very generalized about a general feeling of hatred to a project you seem to know very little about other than what you read in the paper. Have you done any research on this with other cities? Have you visited and rode light rail lines elsewhere?

Comments like this is what tends to annoy me the most, you come in here and just start spouting out generalized statements and expect everyone to say, "well damn, I think this guy is really on to something, maybe light rail really is stupid." Well I hate to break it to you, but this is not the Pilot and people actually have debatable opinions in here.

A: 189,000+ dollars went missing, that is one case of fraud. The double sets of books, the no-bid contracts. The places where contractors failed to do the job correctly and got paid to do it again (crossings near PETA). The failed leaders leaving with giant parachutes. I mean, open the paper any day and pick a headline. HRT has had a pretty bad reputation since before the project. Examples mostly come from the old Talknet, and examples of waste fraud and abuse.

B: failing due to debt. No leaders with any solutions other than to borrow more. Gov't spends too much, top earners hoard too much, etc.

C: I've seen a number of people post references to articles about other cities that implemented light rail lines, and them being a failure. Yes. There are examples of these things being a failure for the people paying for it. It's a win for the people with the gov't division that gains more power, though.

I totally understand it's a starter line.

I live near it. Right near it. I can see the track from where I'm sitting, right now. I rent an office near it. My job is near it (I don't really go to the office much anymore, my employer is mostly failed, and most of the staff is laid off so it's mostly an empty office.)

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A: 189,000+ dollars went missing, that is one case of fraud. The double sets of books, the no-bid contracts. The places where contractors failed to do the job correctly and got paid to do it again (crossings near PETA). The failed leaders leaving with giant parachutes. I mean, open the paper any day and pick a headline. HRT has had a pretty bad reputation since before the project. Examples mostly come from the old Talknet, and examples of waste fraud and abuse.

B: failing due to debt. No leaders with any solutions other than to borrow more. Gov't spends too much, top earners hoard too much, etc.

C: I've seen a number of people post references to articles about other cities that implemented light rail lines, and them being a failure. Yes. There are examples of these things being a failure for the people paying for it. It's a win for the people with the gov't division that gains more power, though.

I totally understand it's a starter line.

I live near it. Right near it. I can see the track from where I'm sitting, right now. I rent an office near it. My job is near it (I don't really go to the office much anymore, my employer is mostly failed, and most of the staff is laid off so it's mostly an empty office.)

A. Then there must be a federal investigation going on if someone is stealing money. I vaguely remember the article that mentioned contractors getting paid twice for redoing the bridge by PETA, but I would suspect that there was more to that story than what was written. What if it would of been more costly to waste time in court suing each other? Cause that is usually what happens in situations like that. Also, who reads the local papers these days, they are often times filled with bad one sided arguments using the "shock method" to try to keep themselves viable in the information age.

B. All governments have failed over time, we currently live in the longest running government, so we have been doing something right so far...but with that said, talking about the future of the government is purely hypothetical, when is it going to fail? Next year? 5 years? 100 years? And who in this country wants to take to the streets and start shooting at each other when the government fails. I would argue that by not having violent protests in the streets is a good example that there is no failing of the government in our near future, seeing that I have yet to see a modern government fall peacefully.

C. First off, you do realize the difference between government and business right? You make it sound like the government should be run like a business, if it isn't profitable then it must be a failure. Under that logic, we should get rid of our old people when they become too costly. Well, I would argue that I have heard of more successes with light rail than I have heard negative things. And living in a city that is currently expanding its rail lines makes it hard for me to believe this is a bad idea for my city or any city for that matter.

I am curious what the point is with your last paragraph? Does being able to see the tracks and the company you work for failing have something in common? Which I am not sure you understand that it is a starter line because your comments seem to suggest otherwise, unless you are saying that because it is a starter line, then it must be a failure. I would agree that if this starter line isn't expanded into multiple lines throughout the region, then one could argue that it is a failure or a limited success rail line.

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Ding ding ding,

that was a 3 round heavy round bout, lol.

I would agree with a lot that urban has said and tel, all that is "old-new" doesn't make it bad. For us, it is new and its progressive. There is no way we can jump from one way of living to another when it too this long to move on this one initiative. Magval, or whatever is might be more efficient, but do you really expect them to jump from busses to that?

I think LRT is a good thing for the region, it definitely should be something that every well off city considers. I've said this before, but its time for the mindset of this region to change, it is not sustainable. Tel makes the argument that many live below the poverty line, heck, that might be in even true. But consider this, LRT didn't make that happen, that started wayyyyy before LRT was considered. So maybe LRT isn't the real problem, but rather an example possibly?

I would argue that we focus on the wrong things in this area. We focus on the new things that we feel adds no value rather than focus on the things that we know hasn't worked for decades. Many of us focus on the recession, but in reality, land, leases, rents, and mortgages are really what is keeping people from really moving forward, not LRT or projects like this. Yeah, if anything, it fights against the grain, but it is of progressive thought. Its a lot of blame to go around and NORFOLK sits right smack dead in the middle of it. I will say that this has given the city and the future prospects of this system a black eye. We will forever be the standard for the region in saying, this is why we shouldn't have LRT in our city, unless Norfolk does something to soften that image. That leads us back into the development conversation and the hopes that LRT will bring. Yeah, its hope, I know...

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Sorry it was late. My point is, I would be their target audience for the train.

True, if you live near a future station and work near a future station, then it would be a safe bet that by default you would be a target audience. But have you ridden to work by train yet? Can you compare it to driving and gas consumption and parking costs yet? The fact that you work for a company going under, does that have anything to do with light rail? I am just trying to figure out your reasoning for being against something that seems like it would work in your favor.

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Well, I post there a lot! (Ethan is my name on there.) At the end of the day, the project is riddled with fraud. People stole lots of taxpayer money with the project. They personally took YOUR money and put it in THEIR pocket, and didn't work to earn it. That actually does make some people mad.

Currently, the way things are headed, America is going to fail. Yes, fail.

You can pretend that the gov't wasting tons of people's personal money is going to somehow make the area bigger. Having 2 million people with 1,500,000 of them under the poverty line isn't really going to help.

I'm against light rail. I think it's stupid. I think it's a total, absolute, waste of money. No technical advances came from it. It's redeployment of something that existed before and was torn out. I was all for maglev research and development. That system is forward looking. It is innovation. It leaves something for future generations to be proud of. It could have spawned new industry in Hampton Roads. It could have shown the world that America still invents stuff other than things to kill people with.

Sorry Tel but you need to understand the history of transport to understand that rail is a good thing. The reason rail lines were torn up is because Ford and the rest of the automakers bought the rail lines and removed them so you would be forced to drive a car. Not because it was a 'bad idea' as you imply. And now look? We 'subsidize' highways, oil companies, gas stations, car insurance companies, local and state governments (vehicle licences and registrations) and the biggest mother of all....CAR COMPANIES! If you added all of that up a rail subsidy pales in comparison.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lighting has been turned on at the station near the New Belmont. It's pretty hideous. Screams over the top rape/murder deterrent. Like, "we know you'd be doomed if this thing didn't look like a super nova star."

Might have to put a solar panel in the window and harness some of them photos at night for myself!

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windscreens are being installed on lrt stations just as i expected they would be..

Really?

Sounds like a good idea, but I do not think the city has its crime issue underwraps to put screens at the stations. I would see them being damaged, marked up, etc...

Would have been cool for a heavy monitored stationed, but those outliers will get hit pretty hard with vandalism.

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Really?

Sounds like a good idea, but I do not think the city has its crime issue underwraps to put screens at the stations. I would see them being damaged, marked up, etc...

Would have been cool for a heavy monitored stationed, but those outliers will get hit pretty hard with vandalism.

last october, when I visited Portland, OR, I noticed that their transit stops were clean and almost new looking. The reason? There were signs on everything that said it was a felony to deface transit property or to harass or assault transit employees. Thats what we need here. We need that here. It should be posted everywhere. We could get some wireless cameras to move around between the most vandalized areas and see if we cant catch some people.

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