Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[Young75]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:15 PM, Norfolk757Kid said:

East Side is still the safer option for the city. Ground is higher and light rail can be used as a development tool, whereas the West Side will continue to develop with or without light rail. 

I agree. I think there is A LOT to be done on the East Side of the city. There are a few things that halted Light Rail on the East Side tho. The fact that you have to get the light rain over top 64...AND that’s the flight path! Not to mention they just spent all that time redoing the intersection on Military Highway. They would have to do some serious winding like they did in Downtown thru that neighborhood but they STILL have to run it over top 64. Stuff like that brings up the cost even more. I think light rail won’t expand until it has serious regional dialogue about how it will help the region as a whole.

On 1/29/2019 at 7:20 PM, BFG said:

I've seen so many proposals I lost count. Would bus rapid transit still be an option for the East Side? Or is that gonna have the same problem as light rail?

Well you don’t have to build tracks overtop of 64 but it’s really not much space over there without doing some serious rezoning and planning.

[Young75]

On 1/28/2019 at 7:25 PM, BFG said:

I looked at a few more pictures online...I wonder how this could work if you had an urban gondola at the end of the light rail line at EVMS. From there, take the gondola along Hampton Blvd., to ODU and the base. The vacant Maglev track on campus could be a stop with a platform.

That’s ideally where it would pick up at but everything is so Narrow on Hampton blvd it’s hard to say. Now that I think of it I think ODU should have tried this a long time ago instead of Maglev being that ski lifts were already a thing especially since it’s a short distance but I get it. I will give ODU credit for being trying to be Innovative tho. 

[Young75]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:26 PM, lammius said:

It is ridiculous, but there's an army of urban gondola enthusiasts pitching them all over the U.S.  The promise is that it's cheap, requires *no* land, and offers a better level of service than surface transit modes.  It can rarely deliver any of those three promises.  

In addition for finding places for the poles (you need 2 meters, which is basically the better part of a traffic lane), you need to site stations.  To do that within the public ROW is going to be difficult to do (look at the pic below!).  So ridiculous station construction and/or property acquisition to build the bloody stations is thrown in the cost formula.

 

And then there's the travel time.  These things average a measly 11 mph (including multiple stops on a line-haul route).  To go from downtown Norfolk to NOB at 11 mph, that's a 45 minute trip.  Gondolas are good for getting over a physical barrier (a mountainside, occasionally a river, etc.), for a short distance (a mile or two tops).  As a mode of urban transport in a flat and relatively un-dense city, and for such a long distance, it's ridiculous.  The only reason not to build LRT on Norfolk's west side is because you're trying to be cheap.  

I believe it’s a case by case basis. That’s why they do the “study” LOL but I’m sure a lot of people probably think Light Rail is ridiculous in a city like Norfolk but it’s here! Honestly the fact that Norfolk built up the courage to build something like it did and for no other city to be on board considering most of the population can’t access it is amazing but I lift it up and be positive. I’m sure every innovation you see today was probably called ridiculous but it’s more than being cheap the city can’t afford that alone. Also the city has to do extensive rezoning and planning on the East Side for it to truly work. Light Rail in downtown wasn’t the same “beast” as it is on the East Side. 

23 hours ago, Urbanlooker said:

The only place I could see the gondolas it to cross the river from Dowtown to Portsmouth, maybe connecting the 2 casinos if they get built. 

I think this would complement both cities well being on the river with the view and all.

[Norfolk757Kid]

It seems like luring Amazon made the state look at public transportation and light rail in a different light, not to mention higher education. Even Virginia Beach's proposal touted a potential light rail extension! Hopefully it takes less than a generation to implement.

[Young75]

36 minutes ago, Norfolk757Kid said:

It seems like luring Amazon made the state look at public transportation and light rail in a different light, not to mention higher education. Even Virginia Beach's proposal touted a potential light rail extension! Hopefully it takes less than a generation to implement.

Yea I thought that was interesting and why not put together a regional package? Why not build all the way to the Oceanfront? Why not make it more appealing than selling the name “beach” but I digress lol All roads lead back to Virginia Beach it seems.

[Cjnfkvb]

8 hours ago, Young75 said:

Yea I thought that was interesting and why not put together a regional package? Why not build all the way to the Oceanfront? Why not make it more appealing than selling the name “beach” but I digress lol All roads lead back to Virginia Beach it seems.

It would be nice if light rail ran to the ocean front, and it should have happened,  but the city treasurer, and a few of his friends somhow convinced a slew of voters at the beach to vote against it.  It seems efforts to run light rail to greenbriar are in the works, but I fear we are in for the same story. Our region has extreamly  vocal naysayers, and a good chunk of those who would support thease projects are transiant citizens who only live in the region temporarily and therefore dont vote, because they simply dont care about this place. We need a good regional transportation network, if we want to convince people that this is a good place to move to permanently.  The city's of hampton roads all rely on each other and need to work together if they want to amount to anything. 

[Young75]

On 1/31/2019 at 8:38 PM, Cjnfkvb said:

It would be nice if light rail ran to the ocean front, and it should have happened,  but the city treasurer, and a few of his friends somhow convinced a slew of voters at the beach to vote against it.  It seems efforts to run light rail to greenbriar are in the works, but I fear we are in for the same story. Our region has extreamly  vocal naysayers, and a good chunk of those who would support thease projects are transiant citizens who only live in the region temporarily and therefore dont vote, because they simply dont care about this place. We need a good regional transportation network, if we want to convince people that this is a good place to move to permanently.  The city's of hampton roads all rely on each other and need to work together if they want to amount to anything. 

It’s so funny how we have to be so politically correct but I agree 100%. I really feel like there’s an elephant in the room ...light Rail= urban ...Urban = Diversity .....and who loves diversity....right? LOL I will continue to be optimistic and the greenbrier option would be great but yea you run into the same “territory” VA Beach and Chesapeake shouldn’t even be cities but I digress lol

[Norfolk757Kid]

Anyone heard anything about BRT lines in Norfolk? The more I think about it the more I like the idea of a BRT down Hampton or Granby or Tidewater Drive. 

[BeagleAccountant]

35 minutes ago, Norfolk757Kid said:

Anyone heard anything about BRT lines in Norfolk? The more I think about it the more I like the idea of a BRT down Hampton or Granby or Tidewater Drive. 

When they did the west side study, it was something brought up multiple times. But it was clear that they valued focusing on an extension up military highway instead. Despite the majority of folks who would ever use light rail or BRT living on the west side of town.

[BFG]

I think the problem is, with the exception of Brambleton, most of the main thoroughfares close to downtown are still only two or four lanes. If there were an extra lane on each side on Hampton or Colley, it may be justified. At this point, I don't care where they extend, I just want to see some action on light rail or BRT! 

Please include this in the State of the City next week, Mayor (fingers crossed)...

[Up2313]

I am really hoping for some news on light rail at the state of the city. It's been about a year since the west side study. I thought they were in progress on the east side study? Seems like it's been awhile since we have heard any news. 

[BFG]

Hmmm...usually when this IG page asks a rhetorical question like the one below, a new development comes along within the next couple months. Maybe we’ll get some news soon about the next light rail route?

[Up2313]

The Eastside transit study (basically military highway) is suppose to be a 2 year long study which started sometime last year. I think we have about another year to hear it's results. There hasn't been any news on light rail since westside study ended last year. 

[carolinaboy]

19 hours ago, BFG said:

Hmmm...usually when this IG page asks a rhetorical question like the one below, a new development comes along within the next couple months. Maybe we’ll get some news soon about the next light rail route?

Maybe not news about a new LRT route, but perhaps a new TOD along the existing route? Snyder lot?

[BeagleAccountant]

On 6/24/2019 at 8:45 PM, BFG said:

Hmmm...usually when this IG page asks a rhetorical question like the one below, a new development comes along within the next couple months. Maybe we’ll get some news soon about the next light rail route?

At yesterday's city council meeting,  Amy Inman (Norfolk's Director of Transit) presented. Part of her presentation included the mention of a new multimodal transportation master plan and a transit system redesign. The stated goals include moving Norfolk toward a vision of streets that are safe and healthy, moving transportation in a more walkable and multimodal direction, and making streets into multimodal "placemaking corridors". I would imagine that's what this IG post is alluding to. But I could be wrong.

[BFG]

Interesting video about how public transportation became so lacking in the U.S. The video notes that Boston, NYC, and DC are older cities built before the automotive industry took off, and how  cities like Portland, OKC, and Milwaukee are going back to streetcars, which started dying out across the country around WW2. It also says streetcar revivals are leading to economic development in those cities from other businesses. Maybe I should send this to our council...

 

[baobabs727]

what does this even mean? Light rail extension, yes or no? Simple. 

[BFG]

HRT is studying the possibilities of expanding services throughout the city, notably to Military Circle, the airport, and the base. It should take 30 months.

https://wtkr.com/2019/10/01/hampton-roads-transit-to-study-adding-new-bus-light-rail-service-throughout-norfolk/

I don't know what they need to study...two of those three places need light rail and bus service.  Bad. I'd ride to the airport in a heartbeat and save money not getting a Lyft/Uber. Military Circle is a good idea, esp. if you plan to revitalize that site. The base is a no-brainer. There, I just saved you thousands of dollars and two-and-a-half years.

[HRVA]

On 6/24/2019 at 8:45 PM, BFG said:

Hmmm...usually when this IG page asks a rhetorical question like the one below, a new development comes along within the next couple months. Maybe we’ll get some news soon about the next light rail route?

I was looking at this page about a month ago and based on one of their comments it seems like it’s affiliated with the City. I couldn’t remember which thread this page was being discussed at the time but I’ll try to find the comment again. 

Here it is. Not sure if Visit Norfolk is directly affiliated but they responded with this to a post on the Norfolk Developments page.

Edited October 2, 2019 by 23320
Picture

[Norfolk757Kid]

One thing they need to study is where the funding will come from. If transit advocates have learned anything it should be that a well funded promotion and educational campaign is needed as well to counter the vocal minority. I think the city should take its time with a transit extension, so that they get it right, or as right as possible. 30 months may also be a political calculation. When the next round of grants and budgeting will open up. 

[Qdeathstar]

On 11/17/2018 at 3:08 PM, vdogg said:

I'm sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree here. This is a very simple math equation. Those cars don't simply disappear into the ether. There is no portal to another dimension where they can just enter when they leave the tunnel and pop out near the Naval Base. They HAVE to go somewhere. And if they aren't traveling along what has been the main thoroughfare to the base and the ports for decades, then they are traveling along neighborhood and side streets. Norfolk is going to find out very quickly how poor of an idea this is, and it will likely cost millions to revert everything back which they WILL have to do. Hoping that cooler heads prevail here.

if you reduced traffic to two lanes, reduced the speed limit to 25, and forced all trucks to go 564 route you may get less traffic on hampton blvd because it it’s up being faster just to take 64/264

[baobabs727]

14 hours ago, Qdeathstar said:

if you reduced traffic to two lanes, reduced the speed limit to 25, and forced all trucks to go 564 route you may get less traffic on hampton blvd because it it’s up being faster just to take 64/264

what about the rest of us?  we would have to suffer through an unreasonably low 25 mph speed limit ...the entire length of the road. if one wanted to go to the base and back from downtown, a 25mph speed limit would make one want to blow one's brains out. 

[Qdeathstar]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:46 PM, baobabs727 said:

what about the rest of us?  we would have to suffer through an unreasonably low 25 mph speed limit ...the entire length of the road. if one wanted to go to the base and back from downtown, a 25mph speed limit would make one want to blow one's brains out. 

What you reckon the average speed is on the road now with all the backups? 

[vdogg]

On 10/5/2019 at 9:11 PM, Qdeathstar said:

What you reckon the average speed is on the road now with all the backups? 

"Because it backs up anyway" is not a good argument for further reducing the capacity of a road through speed reductions. If there is an issue that causes a road to drop to speeds below the posted speed limit, then address that issue through capacity increases, reconfiguration of the traffic flow, transit, or all of the above.

[baobabs727]

On 10/5/2019 at 9:11 PM, Qdeathstar said:

What you reckon the average speed is on the road now with all the backups? 

I have no idea, but the idea of artificially altering speeds downward absent a safety-based rationale seems odd to me.  I generally don't like public policy that forces behaviors or ensures specific outcomes (to be determined, no less, in some ivory tower) that wouldn't otherwise exist if simply left to natural market/environmental forces and rational actors--like you and me. 

Why wouldn't you just ban trucks and let the rest of us drive 45? Not saying I support that idea either, but....