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Norfolk Light Rail and Transit


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39 minutes ago, ONCE1stBlvd said:

IDK bro... just seems so suspect

These route options do so little for the present infrastructure and population it's actually grotesque. 

I never thought I'd say this but at this rate I wish they'd never even built the thing

If they were really concerned about ridership, the next phase needed to go up Granby and over to ODU.

But this isn't about ridership. This is all about TOD on Military Highway.

One thing I wonder, if they had the foresight to know VB wouldn't expand it, would they have started with a totally different route? For instance, they could have picked a route that would have made it easier to build short spurs off of.

Edited by BeagleAccountant
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Amtrak will add a 3rd Norfolk to DC train sometime this year. https://www.pilotonline.com/news/transportation/vp-nw-passenger-rail-hampton-roads-buttigieg-northam-20210331-zdpqhmjqzfe5rcioi3brqor

Not that any of this will happen, but just looking at this map, I can see directions the city should go with light rail and BRT.  Bus Rapid Transit from the Naval Base to Military Circle does make sen

Once it's 4 lanes, then people will really see why a third crossing is needed

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Both routes lead through the Military Highway corridor, which will be good for the Arena if that’s where they decide to put it. The other options were financially infeasible. I would’ve liked the Granby route too, but if they don’t have the money they don’t have it. As long as we eventually make it to the base and the airport I’ll be happy.

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It's weird that HRT and the city didn't flesh this out more back in the mid-2000s when construction began. Many headaches could've been avoided had the starter line somehow ended at ODU or the base, one way or another. I do think Norfolk figured VB would eventually get on board, so ending right at the city border made sense. I don't see how any extension won't be a headache, but I'll just be happy if it's completed within my lifetime.

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1 hour ago, Virginia City said:

I think with the collaboration between Norfolk and VB for the potential arena deal I think that VB might end up expanding the Tide eventually. 

I feel you on that potential. There's seems to be a lot more incentive for the beach in that scenario.

 

13 hours ago, vdogg said:

Both routes lead through the Military Highway corridor, which will be good for the Arena if that’s where they decide to put it. The other options were financially infeasible. I would’ve liked the Granby route too, but if they don’t have the money they don’t have it. As long as we eventually make it to the base and the airport I’ll be happy.

Infeasibility has never stopped any city including Norfolk from constructing ideas. Don't see how this would be any different.

I'm down for the positivity but not so much for the part about not having money for the train nor the idea of the arena near Military Circle. Still seems odd with it not being downtown, with all the existing transportation options already there. Plus I see the area around Military Circle being very drivable. What reason would locals have to take a train where they could drive?

The idea isn't stupid at all...just very coincidental that the west side option is a no go right in time for Military Circle to be a potential arena site. 

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  • 9 months later...

This article talks more about BRT on the Peninsula, but there is a blurb towards the end about Norfolk and Chesapeake considering this. If Chesapeake does, I might just move back to Greenbrier... :lol:

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/transportation/dp-nw-fz20-bus-rapid-transit-hrt-20201127-67hkyipcybdqziiu4jevte4bri-story.html

And of course there's another study under consideration. Look, people want better public transit and less traffic. It should go to the base, airport, whatever they're doing to Military Circle, Town Center, the beach, Greenbrier, and at least Hampton Town Center.

There, now pay me $100,000.

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Their buses are nasty and I will never, ever, never, ever, never ever ride them. If we have been sitting here for 20 years by the time this thing is done, waiting on the light rail expansion, only to be slapped in the face with BRT and left with a failed (yet lovely and a far superior mode) LRT starter line to nowhere, I will be beyond angry. Absolutely outrageous. Remember, long-awaited attendant light rail development may not ever come to fruition with BRT implementation. That’s one major drawback, for starters. The other is I don’t think you’re going to get people to ride the damn bus. 

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I know the city wanted to extend into Virginia Beach, and Town Center and the Strip were both logical options. But, when they started building the line, we were only a decade removed from the first time VB said no. From the very beginning, they should've found a way to build this to at least the airport, if not the base. That way, they have a successful system to take to VB.

It's ridiculous that the city keeps dragging its feet because they painted themselves into a corner. I'd like to see a second line while I'm still young. Every time I go to DC, I get insanely jealous of the Metro...I know they have a 40-year head start, but it's still frustrating.

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Does anyone know the status of the rail line that runs behind Cape Henry Ave? Who owns it, is it active with freight service, etc? 

It goes to Miller Store Road on the south side of the airport. Just need a clever way to connect it to the other side where the terminals are.  But that line goes from the airport area to the freight line by Ballentine. It would connect further down to the line that goes to the Amtrak Station by Harbor Park. IMO, if you could connect these segments and deal with what (if any) freight rail operation happens there, you’ve got a good LRT corridor from downtown to be airport. 
 

 

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  • 4 months later...

  • 4 months later...

Virginia Beach's refusal to extend this beyond their city limits will forever be a thorn in my side, mainly because of the former treasurer's dishonest way of going about the process.

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4 hours ago, urbanvb said:

An article about the Tide. Va Beach missed a huge opportunity not allowing it to extend to Town Center. Oh, what could have been…

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/transportation/vp-nw-tide-light-rail-10-year-20210819-v5ixg3vs4bdvjismt4das5nv2i-story.html

Norfolk should definitely be looking at expanding light rail throughout the city, and working with surrounding cities that also want to be connected by light rail.

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5 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

My daughter's university has 2 light rail stations making access to uptown very convenient.

Would be awesome for Norfolk and ODU if they could get light rail up there. Would be a game-changer.

Connecting it to ODU and the airport should be a priority for the next expansion or additional lines.

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https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/editorials/vp-ed-editorial-tide-anniversary-0819-20210818-qap35v6bzjfmje737z3t34u5ja-story.html

Not sure what to make of the tone of this editorial. It's realistic and the truth hurts, but it has the pessimistic tone we have come to expect from the Pilot. The editorial misses the fact that Virginia Beach voted Yes on light rail in 2012, but John Atkinson came up with that "misleading language" BS.

Meanwhile, I didn't realize a bus rapid transit study was so far along. If they connect to ODU and downtown, I'd ride that in a heartbeat.

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This is what that article is referencing: https://www.navalstationnorfolktransit.com/projectupdates/project-update-august-2021

To be honest, I'm pretty disappointed with the decision. The BRT line would not connect ODU to Downtown, and if someone were to fly to the airport and want to take public transit to Downtown, they would need to take a shuttle from the airport to the BRT, the BRT to the Tide Station, and then take the Tide into downtown. Precisely zero people will make this or similar trips when taking an Uber is so much easier, faster, and probably cheaper. Going for BRT instead of Light Rail to finish up the eastern section just further exacerbates the biggest issue that The Tide has, that it does not take people from where they are to a place they want to be. And it makes taking public transit even harder by forcing people to make multiple mode changes in order to really get anywhere. This is really frustrating and honestly a gigantic step backwards, in my first-take opinion.

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Another study. Another $&@%in study. You gotta be kidding me. If I ever leave Hampton Roads, part of the reason is because it takes forever for anything to get done around here and because they study everything to death. 

Traffic around here sucks - especially in Greenbrier - and you’re running out of space to build extra lanes for cars. Light rail or BRT would help. There’s your study. Now pay me $100K. 

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When the stories were reported regarding the lower than expected passenger numbers for what was the "starter" leg of light rail, the defenses went up immediately. Studyitis, mixing modes (light rail/BRT), etc. are, IMO symptoms of leadership at every level being unwilling to face the personal consequences of taking bold actions which could again provide lower than promised/anticipated ridership numbers. In other words, classic human nature traits resulting in poor leadership,

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