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Norfolk Light Rail and Transit


urbanvb

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These renderings show double tracks for Norfolk's light rail system.

http://www.norfolkdevelopment.com/business...ailStations.pdf

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This shows the Kirn Library getting demolished and used as a Station! There is only on track on the NS line but the track is in very bad shape and can't be used. They are planning on putting new lines down and looking at the pdf it looks to go both directions

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As someone who just left the burbs for the Freemason area, I really hope this LR thing gets squashed. The reason? I see absolutely zero point in going forward with this scheme until HRT gets its act together.

The line is idiotic and I am sure that there will be people who will ride this, but at the huge cost that they will spend (triple their preliminary figures and then double that) is it worth it to get a few more people off the road? The route that it is going (basically through DT and along 264) is dead in both directions except for backups caused by things that this LR train will not aleviate (the tunnels). They should have tried to get a commuter line from the Naval Base to Silverleaf in VA Beach via the HOV lanes first. On a cost basis, this money would be better spent improving the bus system because the people who have cars in this area are not going to waste time dealing with public transport. This is not DC, NYC or Portland, OR.

Anyone who had ridden the horrific Baltimore LR or subway can easily see what will become of any LR project left in the hands of HRT. The stations are filthy and decrepit (think Kern Library in DT Norfolk), the LR trains and filthy and smell like urine and the people running the trains are some of the rudest people this side of a Food Lion check stand.

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Anyone who had ridden the horrific Baltimore LR or subway can easily see what will become of any LR project left in the hands of HRT.  The stations are filthy and decrepit (think Kern Library in DT Norfolk), the LR trains and filthy and smell like urine and the people running the trains are some of the rudest people this side of a Food Lion check stand.

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The Baltimore LR was enough for me. Didn't even chance it on the subway. I would hope HRT doesn't build something that horrible. But at least the Baltimore lines go somewhere esp the LR line from BWI to downtown. The Green Line in LA has no purpose. It goes from Norwalk along the 105 to Redondo Beach. Environmental concerns and political fighting prevented it from going to LAX. Basically, it goes from nowhere to nowhere. Then there's the Orange BRT. It ends across a busy street from a Red Line station. Politics and money prevented a subterranean tunnel or skywalk from connecting the two. Now these are great models for HRT. Models of what, I don't know.

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The Baltimore LR was enough for me.  Didn't even chance it on the subway.  I would hope HRT doesn't build something that horrible.  But at least the Baltimore lines go somewhere esp the LR line from BWI to downtown.  The Green Line in LA has no purpose.  It goes from Norwalk along the 105 to Redondo Beach.  Environmental concerns and political fighting prevented it from going to LAX.  Basically, it goes from nowhere to nowhere.  Then there's the Orange BRT.  It ends across a busy street from a Red Line station.  Politics and money prevented a subterranean tunnel or skywalk from connecting the two.  Now these are great models for HRT.  Models of what, I don't know.

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Well the Baltimore subway (Metro) is another time warp. This one takes you circa late 70's. NOTHING seems to have been done since it was built. Cars are clean but everything else is scary. And you have to buy the ticket from the person sitting there. The payment system is one of the most idiotic (same goes for Montreal's otherwise excellent Metro).

The Balto LR is much worse when you have been on a LR that works (Portland). They may actually have the same cars, it's just that the Balto cars are filled with garbage, urine and personnel who don't care anyway. HRT busses are a good indicator of how HRT would run LR.

LA's LR is about as sketchy as Baltimore and about as pointless as one Norfolk would be. I rode the blue line from Long Beach to LA. That was a few hours of my life I will never get back...

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I think that this wouldn't be the best starter track but I will think it will be successful. Hopefully they will expand it around the entire city but the only way this will be successful is if the cities around join in on LR. I think P-Town should get it too! And it should join either from Chesapeake or from the third crossing at Craney Island but that would be YEARS away! Lets hope these cities think ahead and not fall back years.

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I think that this wouldn't be the best starter track but I will think it will be successful. Hopefully they will expand it around the entire city but the only way this will be successful is if the cities around join in on LR. I think P-Town should get it too! And it should join either from Chesapeake or from the third crossing at Craney Island but that would be YEARS away! Lets hope these cities think ahead and not fall back years.

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I'd love to see regional LRT or commuter rail. Let's hope the NEXT federal transportation bill is more transit-friendly than the recent one!

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  • 2 weeks later...

A Sentara Office building could be a fine addition. I believe that a signature tower could be a sensitive issue, however. Anybody seen the Humana tower in Louisville? It's one of Michael Graves best, but it makes me a bit leery of the impersonal money machines some medical health providers have become. Nevertheless, medicine is probably one of Hampton Roads's next big growth industries.

On the Town Center subject. It is a competitor to downtown Norfolk in that it can place financial and legal services closer to their clientele in the large and relatively wealthy Va. Beach suburbs. It's not quite the same as the back office "edge cities" that popped up during the '80s and '90s. It reminds me more of Walnut Creek, California than say Concord or Pleasant Hill, if you know the Bay Area (where I lived for a long time). Town center is a spectacular success, but it's long term growth potential may be somewhat limited in that most of the future growth in South Hampton Roads will probably occur in the Western part of the region. In turn, that will help strengthen downtown Norfolk as the true center (if we can just get the damned Midtown Tunnel expanded).

I too wish they would widen the mid town tunnel but I don't know if that will ever happen in our life time. Man would that ease Hampton Blvd! If they could just drop another tube for 2 lanes on each side and one tube for mass transit it would be great!

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I too wish they would widen the mid town tunnel but I don't know if that will ever happen in our life time. Man would that ease Hampton Blvd! If they could just drop another tube for 2 lanes on each side and one tube for mass transit it would be great!

They are in planning stages at least I think on a 2nd Midtown Tunnel. Hampton Blvd. is bottlenecked on afternoons when Old Dominion students leave school to go home. Plus, when you try to use Midtown when it's mornings, 3 lanes are converged into 1, which is not good for traffic, and it chokes off the economic development. I think a 2nd Midtown tunnel should become one of highest priorities for transportation, since people use it to go to navy base and ODU and norfolk terminals. Whether they begin (date?), :unsure:

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I believe they wanted to widen the Midtown as part of the Pinners Point Connection, but there just wasn't enough money. There was also supposed to be a connection to 264. One of the projects of the sales tax referendum was a second Midtown tube. Alas, the real Pinners Point vision will have to wait.

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I believe they wanted to widen the Midtown as part of the Pinners Point Connection, but there just wasn't enough money. There was also supposed to be a connection to 264. One of the projects of the sales tax referendum was a second Midtown tube. Alas, the real Pinners Point vision will have to wait.

The problem with that tax referendum was there was loop holes that could possibly having money from this area not stay here and people are getting tired of that. People want our money to stay in the region but from over the years they see it doesn't so they didn't want to pay for other things in this state

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The problem with that tax referendum was there was loop holes that could possibly having money from this area not stay here and people are getting tired of that. People want our money to stay in the region but from over the years they see it doesn't so they didn't want to pay for other things in this state

What, you don't want money that would improve traffic flow in west Norfolk (thereby making Fort Norfolk more attractive to development) be diverted to truck-only lanes along I-81 or the wonderful Bluefield (sp?) Expressway?

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Back in the early 90's we had a half-cent sales tax referendum for "regional" transportation projects in San Joaquin County (Stockton area). A lot of counties were trying that route to get money then. We hired a particularly savvy political consultant, and the referendum passed largely (we thought) because of the way the ballot language was crafted. When people vote, sometimes it's how you pose the question to them, and California poses a lot of questions to it's voters. Maybe we'll get another chance.

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Back in the early 90's we had a half-cent sales tax referendum for "regional" transportation projects in San Joaquin County (Stockton area). A lot of counties were trying that route to get money then. We hired a particularly savvy political consultant, and the referendum passed largely (we thought) because of the way the ballot language was crafted. When people vote, sometimes it's how you pose the question to them, and California poses a lot of questions to it's voters. Maybe we'll get another chance.

Too many referendums, though, are not good. I'm quite familiar with these lovely Cali referendums. Half the items are variations of the same questions. A vote of no on one is like a vote of yes on the other. It gets quite confusing unless you've really studied each induvidual referendum. However, referendums on sales or income tax increases used to fund major projects like roads, stadiums, schools, libraries, city services, etc. should be put to the people. Referendums on bonds for MacArthur Center, 31st St, or even a stadium (as long as no sales or income taxes are involved) should really be left up to the city council. Anyway, the sales tax has already been raised so there probably won't be a roads referendum anytime soon.

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Too many referendums, though, are not good. I'm quite familiar with these lovely Cali referendums. Half the items are variations of the same questions. A vote of no on one is like a vote of yes on the other. It gets quite confusing unless you've really studied each induvidual referendum. However, referendums on sales or income tax increases used to fund major projects like roads, stadiums, schools, libraries, city services, etc. should be put to the people. Referendums on bonds for MacArthur Center, 31st St, or even a stadium (as long as no sales or income taxes are involved) should really be left up to the city council. Anyway, the sales tax has already been raised so there probably won't be a roads referendum anytime soon.

Even if they did another try at a referendum, people would still fear it for two reasons : 1. the money wouldn't stay 2. tolls would still go up. So don't ever expect people to support one unless there is a no way that no other region can touch the funds for our roads from these taxes, which they can't.

Edited by rusthebuss
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Nevertheless, a solution MUST be found somehow. Unlike the Bacon Cheddar Ranch, it doesn't grow on trees. If it were ever posible to create a regional bridge and tunnel toll district through a referendum process, the program and the ballot language would both need to be carefully crafted. The last referendum, involving sales tax increases, was largely modeled after our Regional Transportaion Planning process, which does ensure political inclusion by all local entities. However, consensus among local political leaders does not necessarily equal consensus among citizens and business interests. There were too many controversial projects included in that referendum and they were there to appease leaders from participating jurisdictions. The group of decision makers needed to better reflect reality and the projects needed to be prioritized better. I think it can be done.

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Nevertheless, a solution MUST be found somehow. Unlike the Bacon Cheddar Ranch, it doesn't grow on trees. If it were ever posible to create a regional bridge and tunnel toll district through a referendum process, the program and the ballot language would both need to be carefully crafted. The last referendum, involving sales tax increases, was largely modeled after our Regional Transportaion Planning process, which does ensure political inclusion by all local entities. However, consensus among local political leaders does not necessarily equal consensus among citizens and business interests. There were too many controversial projects included in that referendum and they were there to appease leaders from participating jurisdictions. The group of decision makers needed to better reflect reality and the projects needed to be prioritized better. I think it can be done.

I agree that something must be done but VDOT is so corrupt that no one trusts them around here. Everyone is worried that our money will dwindle to Richmond and once it starts it won't stop. You would have to live here a long time to understand why people feel this way. They come up with these referendums that have loop holes on purpose so they can drag more money out of this area and people are just fed up with that crap. We just can't trust the shady people in Richmond point blank. They are always trying to get something out of us and not returning it to the region. If they raised the taxes and I have a feeling they will still put up tolls across the region and make traffic worse than it already is. What we really need is huge starter rail for mass transit with everyone going in together on this but that will never happen.

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We just can't trust the shady people in Richmond point blank. They are always trying to get something out of us and not returning it to the region.

I walked by VDOT's HQ in Richmond today and noticed a group of 'shady' individuals looking like so: :ph34r::ph34r: carrying in big sacks of money labeled, "HR Transportation Funds that we are going to keep to ourselves" :rofl:

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I walked by VDOT's HQ in Richmond today and noticed a group of 'shady' individuals looking like so: carrying in big sacks of money labeled, "HR Transportation Funds that we are going to keep to ourselves" :rofl:

Live down here for a while and watch the money dwindle then talk about it. You live on the other side of the situation and of course you don't see this happening. :angry: This has been going on for long time dude. Maybe one day you will see the truth. :thumbsup:

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