Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[cpeakesqr]

Going from Newtown to EVMS at 300 bajillion light years per second is just silly... Maglev would be a better option for long distances where high speed is the number one priority. I don't think the Chinese airport NSUREDD's talked about is an intracity system either.

[brikkman]

Are you saying Maglev is better becase it is elevated (We know its faster)?

[scm]

I'm curious -- how much would it have cost to build this starter segment as maglev? Is there any example in the world of a maglev metro? I know about the maglev demo project in Germany (even seen it -- but not operating). But it is an intercity train, not a metro. Can maglev work in an urban environment?

OK, had some time over lunch to research my own question, and I think the answers aren't pretty.

Nagoya, Japan, has a maglev metro line up and running. Covers 8.9 km (5.3 mi), nine stations -- similar to the Tide (but much shorter). Cost? $962 M, or about $180M per mile. Munich just last week announced last week a new Maglev line like the Shanghai line -- railway station to the airport. 38 km, two stations. Cost? $2.6B, or $114M per mile. I just don't see that happening here.

[Henry_Ryto]

I was at the FFGA Signing Ceremony. It's official: light rail is coming to Norfolk. Check out your evening news: about three channels (including Channel 3) were there.

The omen of the Ceremony? FTA Administrator Jim Simpson's pen wouldn't work went he went to sign.

[levarforever]

Going from Newtown to EVMS at 300 bajillion light years per second is just silly... Maglev would be a better option for long distances where high speed is the number one priority. I don't think the Chinese airport NSUREDD's talked about is an intracity system either.

Very good point. But speaking of Maglev, without going off the subject too much, has ODU made any kind of progress with that? And just a thought...wouldn't it be cool if Norfolk not only led the way for light rail in Hampton Roads, but also Maglev?

[vdogg]

I find it funny how everyone in the region cried and moaned about light rail being a waste of taxpayer dollars, but now that it is actually happening the most common complaint is that it doesn't go far enough, or reach them. If they didn't want it in the first place, now is not the time to complain that it doesn't come to their area. HR will never cease to amaze me.

[vdogg]

Here's a new website you all should enjoy.

www.ridethetide.com

Love it!

[vdogg]

The Tide will require several major construction packages. The first set of construction packages will initiate environmental mitigation, construction of two bridges, and civil/trackwork along major roadways and in the rail corridor. The next phase of construction will begin the installation of traffic signals, fare collection and electrical power systems. This phase will also include the construction of four park-and-ride lots and the Vehicle Storage and Maintenance facility. The final phase of construction will involve procurement, delivery of the light rail vehicles and additional buses, and completion of all activities from previous construction phases. Construction of The Tide light rail system is anticipated to begin late 2007 and passenger revenue operations to begin in January 2010.

[vdogg]

Another good link http://www.hrtransit-ideas.blogspot.com/

There is a video of the signing ceremony on the pilot now too.

[vdogg]

Light rail deal signed

Townes said ridership will be one indicator of success. New development along the line and extensions into other parts of Norfolk and other cities will be other key measures.

Already, he said, Portsmouth has expressed interest and has enlisted HRT

[urbanvb]

Not sure if this has been posted but from that website here is a really cool simulation.

Edited October 2, 2007 by urbanvb

[vdogg]

Not sure if this has been posted but from that website here is a really cool simulation.

Yeah, that's the old video. The new one is up on pilotonline.

[brikkman]

Light rail deal signed

I was reading the comments related to that article and for some reason it pissed me off more than usual. All of our lives we have been the victims of mis-managed funds (taxes). In my 28 years on this planet, I've seen tax dollars get thrown in the trash by under supervised public assistance programs, welfare programs and any other free money programs that only target a certain population of people. Now we finally get a project on the books that's literally for EVERYONE and people have something to say about. People are pissed because taxes are out of wack, agreed, but it isn't LRT's fault. They are making it out as if LRT is and was the single most thing that increased their taxes. White elephant? How about free housing, section 8, low interest loans for low income, reverse mortgages, funding for private schools and give me a minute I probably can come up with at least 8 more things. We are saving money literally as we curve our need for oil by itself. Oh, it will change though...When gas hits 6 bucks a gallon STANDARD, the rich and very well off will still complain, but "us regular folk" will stop complaining and start converting.....asking, "Why doesn't come out here"?

[vaceltic]

I cannot wait to see all the new development that is spawned out of this project!

[levarforever]

All the negative comments about light rail, on...(you guessed it), the Virginian Pilot, are annoying. I know people are entitled to their own opinions, but I can't help but noticing how panicky it all sounds...and from out-of-towners no less!

[Henry_Ryto]

Light rail deal signed

vdogg, I caught that reading it, too. "accomodations" doesn't necessarily have to be a third rail-only tube, but a second tube engineered for both cars and rail. Cheaper that way.

Norfolk is building, Portsmouth is jumping on board...and we're slowly conspiring here in Virginia Beach.

[levarforever]

I cannot wait to see all the new development that is spawned out of this project!

Yeah, me too. I'm anxious to find out how it'll affect the housing and commercial density further out from downtown. I think that is just one of the benefits of light rail. Unfortunately, so many people in this area are panicking about it and interestingly enough, people who don't even live in Norfolk (check out the comments on VA Pilot and you'll see what I mean). My sister and I both believe that it is a fear of change. I know that may sound too simplistic to some, but it's true. So many people in Hampton Roads, are so content with seeing it's self in sort of that Cul De Sac, USA category or possibly not defined at all. Remember, if I'm not mistaken, it was only about 10 years ago when Hampton Roads city leaders were debating about the most marketable name for this area. That was rather embarrassing. Now that Norfolk, being that it is historically the urban center of the region, is spearheading future growth, I think we can further hone our identity.

Reading an article from Portfolio Weekly, a few weeks ago, a writer mentioned how staunchly this area is commited to conversative values, the military, and a suburban way of life. Of course, the suburban way of life stood out the most. To some, that comfort zone, if you will, is being threaten by something as blatantly urban as ligh rail. And unfortunately, many people have this abstract view of urban life, as it pertains to blight, crime, and unbareable congestion. I guess they get that from television or from cities they used to live in, that they mistakingly think Norfolk will mimic. It's sad, but you know, old habits die hard, or in this case, old myths.

Anyway, only when light rail sinks into the culture of the entire region, will attitudes change.

[414Matt]

As a daily user of the Midtown Tunnel (reverse commuter luckily), it makes sense that an extension of LRT to Portsmouth/Suffolk would be successful. Until then, maybe an express bus from the medical center station to Portsmouth/Suffolk would suffice. By allowing a bus to cut to the front of the line at the tunnel would save commuters 15-30 minutes at rush hour.

[vdogg]

As a daily user of the Midtown Tunnel (reverse commuter luckily), it makes sense that an extension of LRT to Portsmouth/Suffolk would be successful. Until then, maybe an express bus from the medical center station to Portsmouth/Suffolk would suffice. By allowing a bus to cut to the front of the line at the tunnel would save commuters 15-30 minutes at rush hour.

I agree. Welcome to the forum.

[brikkman]

Yeah, me too. I'm anxious to find out how it'll affect the housing and commercial density further out from downtown. I think that is just one of the benefits of light rail. Unfortunately, so many people in this area are panicking about it and interestingly enough, people who don't even live in Norfolk (check out the comments on VA Pilot and you'll see what I mean). My sister and I both believe that it is a fear of change. I know that may sound too simplistic to some, but it's true. So many people in Hampton Roads, are so content with seeing it's self in sort of that Cul De Sac, USA category or possibly not defined at all. Remember, if I'm not mistaken, it was only about 10 years ago when Hampton Roads city leaders were debating about the most marketable name for this area. That was rather embarrassing. Now that Norfolk, being that it is historically the urban center of the region, is spearheading future growth, I think we can further hone our identity.

Reading an article from Portfolio Weekly, a few weeks ago, a writer mentioned how staunchly this area is commited to conversative values, the military, and a suburban way of life. Of course, the suburban way of life stood out the most. To some, that comfort zone, if you will, is being threaten by something as blatantly urban as ligh rail. And unfortunately, many people have this abstract view of urban life, as it pertains to blight, crime, and unbareable congestion. I guess they get that from television or from cities they used to live in, that they mistakingly think Norfolk will mimic. It's sad, but you know, old habits die hard, or in this case, old myths.

Anyway, only when light rail sinks into the culture of the entire region, will attitudes change.

I think you pretty much nailed.

It

[Sky06]

I was reading the comments related to that article and for some reason it pissed me off more than usual. All of our lives we have been the victims of mis-managed funds (taxes). In my 28 years on this planet, I've seen tax dollars get thrown in the trash by under supervised public assistance programs, welfare programs and any other free money programs that only target a certain population of people. Now we finally get a project on the books that's literally for EVERYONE and people have something to say about. People are pissed because taxes are out of wack, agreed, but it isn't LRT's fault. They are making it out as if LRT is and was the single most thing that increased their taxes. White elephant? How about free housing, section 8, low interest loans for low income, reverse mortgages, funding for private schools and give me a minute I probably can come up with at least 8 more things. We are saving money literally as we curve our need for oil by itself. Oh, it will change though...When gas hits 6 bucks a gallon STANDARD, the rich and very well off will still complain, but "us regular folk" will stop complaining and start converting.....asking, "Why doesn't come out here"?

What gets me are all the complaints that the $220-some million would be better spent on public services, schools, tax breaks, etc. Guess what, people, well over half of that money is not yours! It's not local public dollars but federal and state monies earmarked for this project. Take away the project and you still don't get the money. Oh well, some people never get it.

[willy]

It's not local public dollars but federal and state monies earmarked for this project. Take away the project and you still don't get the money.

Yeah, and if we didn't get it it would go to another LR project in some other city. These people just beotch just hear themselves beotch.

[mikeas]

As a daily user of the Midtown Tunnel (reverse commuter luckily), it makes sense that an extension of LRT to Portsmouth/Suffolk would be successful. Until then, maybe an express bus from the medical center station to Portsmouth/Suffolk would suffice. By allowing a bus to cut to the front of the line at the tunnel would save commuters 15-30 minutes at rush hour.

Yes that sounds like a good idea. Have an electric gate that allows the buses and only the buses to enter ahead of traffic, the city could use the gate off of Claremont Ave for this. Fines for illegally using the gate should be thousands of dollars. I'm sure there is a similar opportunity on the Portsmouth side as well. I would actually consider using our local transit system with that ability.

[cpeakesqr]

Yes that sounds like a good idea. Have an electric gate that allows the buses and only the buses to enter ahead of traffic, the city could use the gate off of Claremont Ave for this. Fines for illegally using the gate should be thousands of dollars. I'm sure there is a similar opportunity on the Portsmouth side as well. I would actually consider using our local transit system with that ability.

They have these in Europe... you can find videos where cars try to go in behind the buses and the barricades pop up and do some serious damage.

[brikkman]

Does anyone know what type of jobs outside an operator will be created?

Is there an information system attached to this? Maybe I can switch from IS in Healthcare to IS with HRT LRT Project......