Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[RJWGMU]

How much did Norfolk pay and how much do they want to make VB pay?

[rusthebuss]

2 differences here for Norfolk and Vabeach for this land. 1. They're HQ is in Norfolk, which means they get incentives from the city, 2.) How much is the land value differ from Norfolks part to Vabeach's part. They should get market value IMHO

[mistermetaj]

2 differences here for Norfolk and Vabeach for this land. 1. They're HQ is in Norfolk, which means they get incentives from the city, 2.) How much is the land value differ from Norfolks part to Vabeach's part. They should get market value IMHO

I think their headquarters are in Atlanta now, and does land value matter since they are not developing over the train tracks anyway?

[hoobo]

I think their headquarters are in Atlanta now, and does land value matter since they are not developing over the train tracks anyway?

Um, no. Norfolk Southern continues to be a Norfolk based company. I'm sure Norfolk would be upset if NS moved after all the incentives thrown their way to prevent them from relocating to Philly when NS and CSX split up ConRail about 10 years ago. CSX is the Virginia rail company that moved: from Richmond to Jacksonville.

[Telmnstr]

I'll sign on to that. I'd have absolutely no remorse using eminent domain because this is a case where a corporation is actually impeding public progress. I'm sorry, but I don't see any other reason for them to charge Va. Beach more than Norfolk other than simple greed. I'll sleep very well at night knowing that NS was forced to sell at market value.

While the majority of Norfolk Southern's operations are not in Hampton Roads, their corporate headquarters is in Norfolk. That is incentive for them to work with Norfolk. It's their property, they should be able to do whatever.

Virginia Beach should build an elevated system, using maglev. It would be better than the traffic delaying, flood prone ground based system Norfolk is deploying.

[okinawatyphoon]

Virginia Beach should build an elevated system, using maglev. It would be better than the traffic delaying, flood prone ground based system Norfolk is deploying.

You won't find a bigger supporter of elevated rail than me, but it's just not realistic for our area. There's too much sprawl, and it's just too expensive. Ideally, we'd all have time transporters and not even need public or private transportation, but that too is unrealistic.

[virginia pe]

I found an old newspaper while cleaning out a junk drawer tonight. (In February, 1989, Hampton Roads had over a foot of snow, so my wife saved the February 19 newspaper with the headline about the snow - she did things like that.) The lead story in the "Local News" section was "Councils Track Future of Light Rail". Virginia Beach City Council was to vote on light rail on March 6. Here are some facts from the article:

Starting point: Norfolk downtown at Granby and Plume

Ending point: Virginia Beach Pavillion

Rail length: 17.7 miles

Number of stations: 13

Anticipated weekday ridership: 18,700

Initial cost: $102 million

Average fare: $1.22 one way

Maximum fare: $2.00 one way

Operation start-up date: Mid 1990's

Light rail has been around for a long time.

[urbanlife]

initial costs 102 million?? That is a steal nowadays for light rail, shame it never happened. Imagine what the region would of looked like if it did. Well there is always still a chance to make it happen and hopefully in 20 years from now it can have a huge positive effect on the region.

[scm]

Virginia Beach should build an elevated system, using maglev. It would be better than the traffic delaying, flood prone ground based system Norfolk is deploying.

Not at $114M per mile that maglev would cost -- besides, maglev isn't suited to urban settings with multiple stops.

Second, most of the extension to VB would run on dedicated ROW, with minimal grade crossings, at least until Birdneck (and possibly all the way to Cypress) -- which removes any advantage of elevated.

Of course, to a Segway driver, anything less than maglev probably fails the coolness test

[okinawatyphoon]

First contract awarded for Light Rail

Bryant Contracting Inc., of Toano will build the elevated section of track between Harbor Park and Norfolk State University for $11.7 million. Construction is expected to begin before the end of the year.

The contracted amount is about $500,000 less than budgeted.

[Sky06]

Apologies if this was posted before, but I haven't seen before. This video provides the most comprehensive look at the route and stations I've seen yet. Very impressive. There will be some pretty dramatic views from 264. And as has been stated, I'm convinced the areas around stations will no doubt get redeveloped. The intersting thing is the very few actual road crossings once you get outside of downtown. A really cool video if you've not seen it.

LRT

Editor's Note: I see vdogg posted a similar video back in Sep, but that's a series of short videos that doesn't show one continuous flow. This also has more detail. Check it out.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Sky06

[rusthebuss]

Wow, this is a surprise in public opinion. Never thought that i would see this!

Should Virginia Beach extend Norfolk

Edited November 9, 2007 by rusthebuss

[vdogg]

Yes still holding on strong with double the votes at 83%. Nimbys haven't woken up yet though, give it till mid-day. TC and the oceanfront are no brainers, easy to support those. Just wait until they start talking about snaking this thing through city streets and neighborhoods (which will eventually have to happen to make it a true city wide transit system) and then you'll see some stuff. Nimbys will start popping out of the woodwork. If we can get this thing extended to the oceanfront before I hit my 40s though, i'll be happy.

[rusthebuss]

I wish they still had the orginal plan of from the oceanfront to DT Norfolk. You would still have idiotssaying it didn't go anywhere.

[vdogg]

I clicked on your link rus and it didn't go to the poll. Here's the article

You guys can click view results from there to see the poll.

[Henry_Ryto]

I clicked on your link rus and it didn't go to the poll. Here's the article

You guys can click view results from there to see the poll.

Hold the horses here:

1. At their Retreat Sunday, Council watered down Barbara Henley's proposal to make a decision on LRT during the coming year.

2. Louis Jones is quite powerful. He could hold this thing up. (Unfortunately.)

3. The Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance (VBTA) will try to control the public meetings.

The bottom line: as soon as the meeting schedule comes out, get everyone you know who's pro-LRT in Virginia Beach to the meetings.

[Sky06]

Yes still holding on strong with double the votes at 83%. Nimbys haven't woken up yet though, give it till mid-day. TC and the oceanfront are no brainers, easy to support those. Just wait until they start talking about snaking this thing through city streets and neighborhoods (which will eventually have to happen to make it a true city wide transit system) and then you'll see some stuff. Nimbys will start popping out of the woodwork. If we can get this thing extended to the oceanfront before I hit my 40s though, i'll be happy.

You guys beat me to the draw on the poll. When I first saw the article, my initial thought was, "As long as VB doesn't let voters decide this (like they did in 99), they'll be ok. Too many uninformed voices. Taxes, taxes, taxes." But then I saw 85+% in favor, and I was shocked. Maybe people are getting their facts straight for once.

[Sky06]

Hold the horses here:

1. At their Retreat Sunday, Council watered down Barbara Henley's proposal to make a decision on LRT during the coming year.

2. Louis Jones is quite powerful. He could hold this thing up. (Unfortunately.)

3. The Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance (VBTA) will try to control the public meetings.

The bottom line: as soon as the meeting schedule comes out, get everyone you know who's pro-LRT in Virginia Beach to the meetings.

It's time to stop letting a small group of uninformed, tax-paranoid people run this city. They are simply afraid of change. Meanwhile, other cities are leaving us in the dust because they have foresight. Hell, taxes probably would be lower today (due to less need for local road maintenance) if voters voted in favor of light rail 8 years ago. We'd have a mature system running from the oceanfront all the way to the Naval Base. If not fully complete, it would be very soon.

Edited November 9, 2007 by Sky06

[lil-bear]

WOW! Yes votes are still at 84%!

[Sky06]

WOW! Yes votes are still at 84%!

Everybody vote Hell Yes!

[vdogg]

So tell me if this doesn't sound fishy. The poll, at 5 pm with some 4500 votes was still 84 for and 14 against. Now, at 6pm, with 5533 votes counted, the poll is 60% against and 40 for. There were only 24 comments no less than an hour ago, now there's 68. I'm willing to bet those taxpayer alliance idiots decided to vote in mass to hack the poll so to speak and throw off those results. That's the only way i can explain things going so positively then flip-flopping within the last hour. Very strange.

[rusthebuss]

Man the idiots must have just got off of work! LOL

[urbanvb]

That's nuts!!

[cpeakesqr]

I'm pretty sure that's impossible. THEY have someone on the inside.

[Henry_Ryto]

So tell me if this doesn't sound fishy. The poll, at 5 pm with some 4500 votes was still 84 for and 14 against. Now, at 6pm, with 5533 votes counted, the poll is 60% against and 40 for. There were only 24 comments no less than an hour ago, now there's 68. I'm willing to bet those taxpayer alliance idiots decided to vote in mass to hack the poll so to speak and throw off those results. That's the only way i can explain things going so positively then flip-flopping within the last hour. Very strange.

The VBTA probably sent out an e-mail with link. They're still losing.