Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[vdogg]

The VBTA probably sent out an e-mail with link. They're still losing.

60% against light rail. Maybe I worded my earlier post wrong. Earlier there was 84% for light rail (and climbing) and now there is 60% against. They're winning, albeit suspiciously. I have never seen a poll flip flop like that at the end of the day, ever. Even with as horribly inaccurate and unscientific as these polls are that's a bit of a stretch. That email scenario sounds pretty logical.

[Henry_Ryto]

60% against light rail. Maybe I worded my earlier post wrong. Earlier there was 84% for light rail (and climbing) and now there is 60% against. They're winning, albeit suspiciously. I have never seen a poll flip flop like that at the end of the day, ever. Even with as horribly inaccurate and unscientific as these polls are that's a bit of a stretch. That email scenario sounds pretty logical.

Robert Dean has an e-mail list of 1,500. The only way it flips that badly is if he sent it.

[vdogg]

The tide has come

This is the full article from Hampton roads magazine in pdf format.

[urbanvb]

That's a great article. I read the whole thing in the actual mag but only found a condensed version online. Glad you have the whole article to share with all of us.

[vdogg]

Yeah, they had it posted on the tides website in the news section.

[Sky06]

Robert Dean has an e-mail list of 1,500. The only way it flips that badly is if he sent it.

I don't give a damn what these people think. They are going to lose this battle anyway. Just once, I'd like to see these kinds of people move away instead of the good people. If they did, they'd see that other cities are fighting for the same things.

[Henry_Ryto]

I just got a tip: Cathy Lewis will cover light rail in Virgnia Beach today during the first segment of Heresay at Noon on WHRO-FM. If you miss the program, you can catch it later on the podcast at WHRO's website.

[cpeakesqr]

I just got a tip: Cathy Lewis will cover light rail in Virgnia Beach today during the first segment of Heresay at Noon on WHRO-FM. If you miss the program, you can catch it later on the podcast at WHRO's website.

I caught the segment... No new information really except that rail is still being considered in 3rd crossing plans and it could be 20 years before that happens. The councilman from the beach didn't go into VB's current discussions, but said they were talking about it. Also the callers were mostly in favor of light rail, only one was against and he just talked about his elderly mother not being able to use it, or buses. I really didn't see what his point was, except that his mother couldn't use light rail therefore nobody else could.

[vdogg]

You missed the most important part. Groundbreaking ceremony is Saturday Dec 8th and Town Point Park.

[Henry_Ryto]

You missed the most important part. Graoundbreaking ceremony is Saturday Dec 8th and Town Point Park.

No, ground breaking is at Harbor Park, 1-3 P.M. The spike driving and speeches will be at 1:30.

I caught the segment... No new information really except that rail is still being considered in 3rd crossing plans and it could be 20 years before that happens. The councilman from the beach didn't go into VB's current discussions, but said they were talking about it. Also the callers were mostly in favor of light rail, only one was against and he just talked about his elderly mother not being able to use it, or buses. I really didn't see what his point was, except that his mother couldn't use light rail therefore nobody else could.

Councilman John Uhrin is tied to pro-LRT interests, but he's been pretty cautious in his public statements so far.

Yes, "Henry from Virginia Beach" was me, trying to preach to the undecided.

[Telmnstr]

I don't really care about light rail that much, even though I will be able to throw a rock and hit the train from where I live (they are putting a station next door to both where I work, and where I live). I don't see a need to ride it, I'd rather walk through freemason to get to work.

BUT, I find it interesting. I've seen a number of articles where light rail has been put in other areas and people seem to talk as if it wasn't successful? Is there a list of successful versus unsuccessful deployments of light rail systems? High costs and very low ridership?

I've got some funny ideas though... I think it would be cool to take over a train car on the weekend and turn it into a party car... DJ, lights, chaos... and make a video out of it.

[vdogg]

BUT, I find it interesting. I've seen a number of articles where light rail has been put in other areas and people seem to talk as if it wasn't successful? Is there a list of successful versus unsuccessful deployments of light rail systems? High costs and very low ridership?

What articles were these? Links? Proof? Evidence? I'm sure I can find just as many articles touting light rails success so i'd be interested to see what your source is on this. High costs are a given, but from all that i've heard ridership usually exceeds projections.

[brikkman]

I see that as being true in both cases, however, I view light rail for its environmental and economic advantages unlike most people. Gas isn't cutting it anymore and salaries are blah, I see this as a way to change my life environmentally and economically. As a nation, we have to face the fact that GAS is going to continue to go up. Good portions of the EAST depend on oil as the base of their economic significance which will naturally drive up the cost of GAS over time (if an alternative isn't presented). AT my current company, I economically get poorer every year: 3% Merit (we do not receive bonuses) yet inflation is like 4.5 or 5% now correct? The same can of beans will ultimately cost me more next year (which is expected), but I have to spend a little more money to get that same can of beans. I'm just trying to stretch my dollar, light rail is a clean, efficient, cost effective way of changing some of that (no or reduced car insurance, no maintenance fees, I do not have to drive, quick, easy on the environment, hell extends the life of my vehicle). Yes, the bus does all that too, but they are not environmentally safe and I have to switch too much to get to once place lol.

[monsoon]

You guys may be interested in the line that opened in Charlotte last weekend. It uses the same trains that are planned for Norfolk. You can read about it in this thread. We restarted the topic around opening day and you can see there has been a lot of activity. A lot of the questions concerning the construction and acceptance of light rail in a Southern city can be answered by examining that topic.

[cpeakesqr]

You guys may be interested in the line that opened in Charlotte last weekend. It uses the same trains that are planned for Norfolk. You can read about it in this thread. We restarted the topic around opening day and you can see there has been a lot of activity. A lot of the questions concerning the construction and acceptance of light rail in a Southern city can be answered by examining that topic.

I hope we have opening lines like Charlotte's.

[adctvmonkey]

wow, that seems pretty impressive

[vdogg]

Light rail gains steam again in Beach

Several Virginia Beach officials and business leaders wonder if The Tide could one day sweep in from the west.

This Tide wouldn

[burt]

Light rail gains steam again in Beach

Charlotte's LINK system should encourage doubters about the potential value of TIDE.

[vtfan18]

I wish the city would do a better job educating the public and vocally expressing the long range plans for light rail. Average citizens still think its just a 7 mile line to and from no where. Thats all the newspaper can focus upon, not the long term vision and plans. Average citizens don't understand light rail must be built in phases and that studies have shown ridership levels dramatically increase after the second and third phases are built. An extreme case but new york's subway line wasn't built all at once and thats what people don't seem to understand. I overheard a number of people on the street talking about light rail during the illumination of lights parade and they totally had their facts wrong!

[Henry_Ryto]

Light rail gains steam again in Beach

Nothing new: the same business people support it. The first grassroots endorsement will be the momentum-pusher.

[urbanvb]

Linking DT to Town Center is a great start for VA Beach imo even if they can't completely go to the Oceanfront.

[Sky06]

I really didn't see what his point was, except that his mother couldn't use light rail therefore nobody else could.

Solid argument . . . NOT!

[Sky06]

I don't see a need to ride it, I'd rather walk through freemason to get to work.

Top 10 reasons to "Ride the Tide"

10. Take train to Harbor Park to avoid traffic, parking tie-ups, and driving after having a few Beers of the World.

9. Take train to Medical Center to avoid paying outrageous parking fees.

8. Take train to MacArthur Mall, then stay all night on Granby Street. Ride home after having many beers of the world.

7. Take train to work so you can drink coffee and talk on cell phone, things people do while driving anyway.

6. Take time to smell the fumes, I mean roses.

5. (Future) Ride back and forth between downtown/Ghent and Town Center after having food and cocktails.

4. Stop at NSU for a football game. (Or ODU in the future.)

3. Wave at all the people sitting in traffic at the Downtown Tunnel.

2. Wave at all the people sitting in traffic at the Midtown Tunnel.

1. Take a relaxing trip to Chrysler Hall/Chrysler Museum/Harrison Opera/Wells Theater/Scope (or Son of Scope)/Orapax.

[burt]

Top 10 reasons to "Ride the Tide"

10. Take train to Harbor Park to avoid traffic, parking tie-ups, and driving after having a few Beers of the World.

9. Take train to Medical Center to avoid paying outrageous parking fees.

8. Take train to MacArthur Mall, then stay all night on Granby Street. Ride home after having many beers of the world.

7. Take train to work so you can drink coffee and talk on cell phone, things people do while driving anyway.

6. Take time to smell the fumes, I mean roses.

5. (Future) Ride back and forth between downtown/Ghent and Town Center after having food and cocktails.

4. Stop at NSU for a football game. (Or ODU in the future.)

3. Wave at all the people sitting in traffic at the Downtown Tunnel.

2. Wave at all the people sitting in traffic at the Midtown Tunnel.

1. Take a relaxing trip to Chrysler Hall/Chrysler Museum/Harrison Opera/Wells Theater/Scope (or Son of Scope)/Orapax.

10 great reasons, sky!

Two questions: #1. What will be the hours of operation? #2. Will extra trains be put into service when there are special events such as ball games, opera, etc?

[Sky06]

10 great reasons, sky!

Two questions: #1. What will be the hours of operation? #2. Will extra trains be put into service when there are special events such as ball games, opera, etc?

Here are some quick facts from HRT site:

Opening: January 2010

Estimated Total Cost: $232.1 million

Estimated Ridership: 6,000 - 12,000 riders per day

Length: 7.4 miles

Number Stations: 11

Park-and-Ride Lots: 4

Number of Vehicles: 9 Hours of Operation

6:00 a.m. - 10:00 p.m. (Monday – Thursday)

6:00 a.m. - midnight (Friday - Saturday)

7:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m. (Sunday)

9:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m. (Holidays)

Service Frequency

Every 7.5 minutes during peak rush hour

Every 15 minutes during off peak hours

Every 30 minutes during early morning, late evening hours