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Norfolk Light Rail and Transit


urbanvb

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That was left green for a reason. It will not be developed. I go downtown during the summer and people sitting on blankets and enjoying that area. Don't expect that area to get developed.

Yeah, untill a developer comes up with just what Norfolk wants and flashes the right amount of cash. that plot of land will be a goner!

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I doubt the city would stopa 40 story tower from being built cause they want to build a parking garage underneath the building.

If they do want to stop all parking garages, and lose out on a potential tower, that would be crazy. I dont see that happening. I think they want people to stopp using extra land to build a parking garage. That makes sence to me.

Uhm, yeah, ok... that is what I was saying... that they might be putting an initiative to ban further parking garages on the back burner to keep more possibilities open.

Even if the garages are for a certain tower or building, most are also open to the general public. So if they build more buildings and more parking garages, even with office towers on top of them, it still does not equate to a shortage of parking.

And the lot next to MacArthur, is that the one where a thrid anchor should go? That is most certainly not supposed to be and empty lot where people can have picnics in the summer. That is the most funny thing that I've heard all day. That will be developed sometime in the future if DT keeps picking up steam and adding more people.

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Uhm, yeah, ok... that is what I was saying... that they might be putting an initiative to ban further parking garages on the back burner to keep more possibilities open.

Even if the garages are for a certain tower or building, most are also open to the general public. So if they build more buildings and more parking garages, even with office towers on top of them, it still does not equate to a shortage of parking.

If we want Light Rail, then we want a shortage of parking to show we have a need for it... thus getting the money for funding of the project. The more garages that go up, the less likely we get the light rail project rolling because people will be more inclined to drive and park downtown... which cuts into the ridership numbers that support the need for light rail. Sounds like you want more garages... whassup with that :huh:

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If we want Light Rail, then we want a shortage of parking to show we have a need for it... thus getting the money for funding of the project. The more garages that go up, the less likely we get the light rail project rolling because people will be more inclined to drive and park downtown... which cuts into the ridership numbers that support the need for light rail. Sounds like you want more garages... whassup with that :huh:

What he is saying is that when they build garage under buildings its not showing a shortage of parking towards the feds. I believe he is for mass transit.

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So, if I get the arguments right, they would be looking to create an artificial shortage of parking in order to get light rail? If that's the case then I agree, the initiative should be tabled for now. I was under the impression that Norfolk was attractive to light rail as is, I thought we'd finally reached a point where it made sense to the Fed. government. Now I see they add this as a stipulation and it makes me feel that maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves. I would have serious misgivings about jeaopardizing future towers/business opportunities just to make light rail possible. (And who knows, maybe they have another tower in the works whos owners insist on a parking garage and that's the reason they decided this now. :whistling: ).

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So, if I get the arguments right, they would be looking to create an artificial shortage of parking in order to get light rail? If that's the case then I agree, the initiative should be tabled for now. I was under the impression that Norfolk was attractive to light rail as is, I thought we'd finally reached a point where it made sense to the Fed. government. Now I see they add this as a stipulation and it makes me feel that maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves. I would have serious misgivings about jeaopardizing future towers/business opportunities just to make light rail possible. (And who knows, maybe they have another tower in the works whos owners insist on a parking garage and that's the reason they decided this now. :whistling: ).

I still say its stand alone garages not ones that are incorporated in the buildings

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I still say its stand alone garages not ones that are incorporated in the buildings

They're interested in ALL parking in the CBD. Whether stand alone or not, more spaces increase the parking supply. The FTA will want to see that the new supply doesn't outweigh the new demand. If tons of new spaces become available fewer people will be inclined to take transit and the light rail would likely fail to meet ridership projections.

I know people in here will probably throw tomatoes at me for saying this, but hey, I'll have a nice salad afterward... I believe investing in a sound, comprehensive, intermodal, efficient transit system will do more good for the city of Norfolk than rushing to build 40-story towers ASAP. I think transit will make larger developments more practical and are worth the capital and time investment. Ok I'm going to go hide now. :ph34r:

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They're interested in ALL parking in the CBD. Whether stand alone or not, more spaces increase the parking supply. The FTA will want to see that the new supply doesn't outweigh the new demand. If tons of new spaces become available fewer people will be inclined to take transit and the light rail would likely fail to meet ridership projections.

I know people in here will probably throw tomatoes at me for saying this, but hey, I'll have a nice salad afterward... I believe investing in a sound, comprehensive, intermodal, efficient transit system will do more good for the city of Norfolk than rushing to build 40-story towers ASAP. I think transit will make larger developments more practical and are worth the capital and time investment. Ok I'm going to go hide now. :ph34r:

I agree with you. This will help us in the long run instead of a stupid temp fix

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They're interested in ALL parking in the CBD. Whether stand alone or not, more spaces increase the parking supply. The FTA will want to see that the new supply doesn't outweigh the new demand. If tons of new spaces become available fewer people will be inclined to take transit and the light rail would likely fail to meet ridership projections.

I know people in here will probably throw tomatoes at me for saying this, but hey, I'll have a nice salad afterward... I believe investing in a sound, comprehensive, intermodal, efficient transit system will do more good for the city of Norfolk than rushing to build 40-story towers ASAP. I think transit will make larger developments more practical and are worth the capital and time investment. Ok I'm going to go hide now. :ph34r:

But the thing is that the FTA will never see a need for Transit if there are 10 towers DT. Once we make ourselves into a more respectable DT, they might then see the need for mass transit. Right now, our DT is tiny compared to other much smaller cities. We need to first build up our city, then that in turn will develop the need for mass transit. Nobody respects HR in the means of a "Major Metro" area. Even though I/we do feel that we are. We need towers.

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I can agree we need more density and actually even I was surprised that things seemed to be moving favorably for light rail seeing how small Norfolk is compared to larger cities that have it. Is anyone aware of a smaller city like Norfolk that has light rail? Still, I am holding out and hoping it will be approved. Ya never know though.

Edited by guynvb
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It's a difficult choice, and as always, the crux is money. If we can get the Feds to pay for a sizeable amount of the project, and then commit long term to covering a large portion of future operational and maintenance costs, then it's (light rail) a really big asset for us. If not, then we have to tailor our land use in the most efficient way so that we can capture the most ridership in the future. We will need an alternative mode soon enough.

Then there's the equity issue. Transit resources have a tradition of serving people who can't afford automobiles (and fuel). Places like Portsmouth have something like 30% of their adult population who may be transit dependent. Do we channel scarce Federal transit dollars into light rail or do we increase Handi-Ride and bus transit service? Can we do both?

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Downtown Norfolk is a large enough activity center that light rail can serve that neighborhood well. It's just where the proposed route goes afterward that's a problem, IMO. What other population or activity centers does the proposed line serve? Few if any. It's a bad choice for a starter route, IMO.

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If Norfolk doesn't get the funding from the feds this time they may want to think of a way to fund it themselves along with help fron the state. It may mean Norfolk loses money upfront during construction and it will lose money yearly for operation costs. But the economic development around the rail line will/should help recoup some/all of the lose. Houston's METRO had no federal funding for their starter line and they are already seeing development along the line. I know Houston is in a totally different weight division than Norfolk, but it goes to show you that it can be done.

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If Norfolk doesn't get the funding from the feds this time they may want to think of a way to fund it themselves along with help fron the state. It may mean Norfolk loses money upfront during construction and it will lose money yearly for operation costs. But the economic development around the rail line will/should help recoup some/all of the lose. Houston's METRO had no federal funding for their starter line and they are already seeing development along the line. I know Houston is in a totally different weight division than Norfolk, but it goes to show you that it can be done.

H-town is HHHUUUGGEE! There the 4th biggest city I think, at least in the top 6.

But I do hear what your saying, It is possible.

Edited by Greekboy80
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I can agree we need more density and actually even I was surprised that things seemed to be moving favorably for light rail seeing how small Norfolk is compared to larger cities that have it. Is anyone aware of a smaller city like Norfolk that has light rail? Still, I am holding out and hoping it will be approved. Ya never know though.

Guy, Sacramento's downtown is no larger than Norfolk's and they have a light rail system.

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Well, rusthebuss and wrldcoupe4 Richmond wins again!

Richmond has the 9th costliest commute in the nation compared to VA Beach's 42nd costliest commute.

I guess there goes the other half of the money that was slated to ease congestion in Hampton Roads! :rofl:

Some folks in Richmond may work up in the Nova area and if so I can understand how that could be expensive.

Edited by guynvb
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Guy, Sacramento's downtown is no larger than Norfolk's and they have a light rail system.

Right, and Sacramento spent an amazingly small amount to build their system. San Jose also has a light rail system, but theirs was more costly. I don't know how they fare as performers, though. They haven't been surprise successes like St. Louis.

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Well, rusthebuss and wrldcoupe4 Richmond wins again!

Richmond has the 9th costliest commute in the nation compared to VA Beach's 42nd costliest commute.

I guess there goes the other half of the money that was slated to ease congestion in Hampton Roads! :rofl:

How in the world is Richmond placed 9th and Va Beach at 42nd. I been in both and Richmond is a cake walk???? Makes me wonder what kind of polling system they have to tally this up.

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