Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[Case]

I truly hope the LR doesn't become a hot button regional political issue which ultimately determines its growth pattern. I witnessed that (still ongoing) battle drag on for two decades in Atlanta. The current system's (MARTA) rail lines almost mirror the socio-political structure of the city. Currently it services regions of city regarded as black or white liberal havens. Growth to the heavily populated suburban counties was prevented by the fear that it would bring in the "wrong element." The equivalent for HR would be a system linking Norfolk, Portsmouth, NN, and Williamsburg but leaving out VA Beach and Chesapeake. I find it truly distressing to hear that same rational being used by Virginia Beach residents today. Its like Deja Vu.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Case

[vdogg]

I posted this in the Va. Beach forum but i'll post it here as well.

Tommorrow in the Va. Beach city council meeting there will be a public hearing on the acquisiton of the norfolk southern right of way. Also, on the consent agenda, there is an ordinance to be voted on that states "The acquisition, by agreement or condemnation a portion of city property for public transportation, linear park, multi-use trail, public utilities, parking and other public purposes of the abandoned Norfolk Southern Railroad right-of-way from Newtown Road to Birdneck Road."

I'm getting a good feeling about this, because this is a very strongly worded ordinance that basically states that "You will either sell it to us at a reasonable price, or we'll take it from you". This is the first serious step, beyond lip service, that i've seen the beach take towards transit along this corridor. I'm usually wary about the use of eminent domain, but this is one instance where they are actually using that power for its intended purposes.

[NSUREDD]

Old 1996 Article. Look How much has changed in 11 years.

VIRGINIA BEACH-NORFOLK LIGHT RAIL IS A BAD IDEA

I would like to go on record in opposition to the proposed light rail project. I have been against this expensive undertaking since the beginning for a number of reasons which I submit herewith:

1) Rail service between Norfolk/ Virginia Beach, which existed until the late 1940s, failed due to ``rising expenses'' and ``competition from the automobile.'' Those economic forces still exist today, 50 years later, and building a ``new and improved'' rail system over the same route is not going to change the uncontrollable.

2) The price tag - initially ($375 million) and for yearly upkeep and maintenance ($11 million) - is far too high for the small number of people it proposes to serve. The fact that everyone's taxes would have to go up to support ``commuters, shoppers, and joy-riders'' leaves a bad taste in the mouths of many of our senior residents, who are on fixed incomes and do not need any more taxes piled on.

3) Look around - we already have an excellent people-mover system in place: the TRT bus system, which now goes to downtown Norfolk and to the Naval Base. I rode the TRT bus for many years during the 1970s and 1980s (from Virginia Beach to the Naval Base, then to downtown, and back home again) and found it to be very convenient and affordable, especially with monthly bus passes as incentives. With the bus system, there is no need to spend money to upgrade tracks, construct road crossings/warnings, or study the issue. The TRT pick-up points serve the public well, and the HOV lanes used by the buses move the commuters to and from their destinations in minimum time at a fair price.

4) People in Virginia Beach have little or no incentive to abandon their cars. There is plenty of parking available at their destination, work schedules and hours fluctuate and especially among military personnel. And people like the convenience of being able to make stops going to and from work.

5) I think Norfolk likes the idea of light rail because they feel it would bring ``shoppers'' into their depressed downtown area. Virginia Beach has plenty of shopping malls where locals can shop.

6) This reminds me of the Southeastern Expressway project - ``someone'' is trying to justify their high-paying job by attempting to revive a dust-covered proposition in hopes government officials and the public will be gullible enough to accept it and its huge price tag.

7) Lastly, I feel such an expensive undertaking such as this should be put on the November 1996 ballot to determine how we, the people, feel about it. If the majority of voters want even higher taxes to support light rail, and vote in favor of the concept, then I will respect their decision.

This project may appear on the surface to be the ``wave of the future,'' but I truly believe that to spend any more taxpayer money (local, state or federal) to study or to approve this will be a huge economic boondoggle.

John O. Parmele Jr.

June 12

[vdogg]

77 parcels of land must be acquired

[Sky06]

77 parcels of land must be acquired

Can't wait for Portfolio Magazine and the Virginian Pilot to dwell on this point. After all, the needs of 1 or 2 surely outweight the needs of tens of thousands. Right, Pilot?

[vdogg]

Condominiums and office towers...or....skate park...hmm...

Considering this is near harbor park the condo and office tower part is obviously that "unsolicited" development that Randy Wright was alluding too. Believe it or not, the type of decision they make here will be indicative of the future vitality of light rail. I'm all for a skate park, but I don't see why one couldn't have been planned for the renovated Town Point park instead. I don't see the council choosing a skate park over taxable development, but i've been wrong before **cough** Downtown Plaza **cough**.

[johnk812]

Condominiums and office towers...or....skate park...hmm...

Considering this is near harbor park the condo and office tower part is obviously that "unsolicited" development that Randy Wright was alluding too. Believe it or not, the type of decision they make here will be indicative of the future vitality of light rail. I'm all for a skate park, but I don't see why one couldn't have been planned for the renovated Town Point park instead. I don't see the council choosing a skate park over taxable development, but i've been wrong before **cough** Downtown Plaza **cough**.

Also from the article.

"Councilman W. Randy Wright demurred, saying it's closer to Chesapeake and Portsmouth than it is to most Norfolk residents. He prefers the Northside site."

I guess by this logic Norfolk should look into moving it's downtown since it's too close to Portsmouth and Chesapeake. ..Can't have those other Hampton Roaders using our facilities! Way to put a huge foot in your mouth, Randy. His words, coupled with a lack of a skate park, doesn't give me confidence that we have progressive minds at work here.

I wonder if anyone's pissed that MacArthur Mall is too close to Chesapeake? I think Norfolk can use a time out. Sit in the corner and think about what you just said.

REGIONALISM NOW!

Merry Christmas.

[vdogg]

I think that you and I read that comment in two completely different ways. The way I look at it, If the object is to serve the majority of Norfolk residents, then why not locate the park near the majority of Norfolk residents? I don't think he meant anything by it, and I don't really see where what he said is wrong.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

I think that you and I read that comment in two completely different ways. The way I look at it, If the object is to serve the majority of Norfolk residents, then why not locate the park near the majority of Norfolk residents? I don't think he meant anything by it, and I don't really see where what he said is wrong.

I read that the same way vdogg, and I agree with you. I think the point was a more central location in the city that would be closer to the most who would use it.

[Case]

Also from the article.

"Councilman W. Randy Wright demurred, saying it's closer to Chesapeake and Portsmouth than it is to most Norfolk residents. He prefers the Northside site."

I guess by this logic Norfolk should look into moving it's downtown since it's too close to Portsmouth and Chesapeake. ..Can't have those other Hampton Roaders using our facilities! Way to put a huge foot in your mouth, Randy. His words, coupled with a lack of a skate park, doesn't give me confidence that we have progressive minds at work here.

I wonder if anyone's pissed that MacArthur Mall is too close to Chesapeake? I think Norfolk can use a time out. Sit in the corner and think about what you just said.

REGIONALISM NOW!

Merry Christmas.

Looks like Wright, like many in the city have forgotten the existence of the South side.

PS. Randy when you cross the Berkley or Campostella bridge you're still in Norfolk not Chesapeake.

[Henry_Ryto]

If they're interested in public transportation access for the skateboard park, why not on one of the outlying parking lots at Military Circle? You could walk to the DTC there; in addition, light rail will be coming nearby.

[vtfan18]

Again, I sometimes question if our officials ever went to college. This is a classic example of public economics and on the most basic level they should understand that a skatepark on prime city owned land does not benefit the common household as tax generating office towers or residential development would do. Any cost benefit analysis would show this isn't the most efficient space for a skatepark. I grew up skateboarding and don't have any problem with building a skatepark. Other large cities have built skateparks in the middle of their downtown's but they aren't built on waterfront property and these are cities with much larger tracts of land to develop. Norfolk is so limited in futher development that its almost absurd to take up 4 acres of prime land. In addition, a skatepark can be built on land just over an acre just as this 50,000 square feet one is in Denver. It's designed for vertical skating and street skating mimicking an urban environment of planters, curbs, rails, bowls, and more. There is a ten-foot-deep "dog bowl" and a half-pipe. We should NOT follow in Virginia Beach's footsteps by trying to build the same thing they already have. Put something like this in the Saint Paul's district if they want it close to downtown.

Edited December 27, 2007 by vtfan18

[carolinaboy]

Puting a skatepark on that tract would be shameful, plain and simple. Put a darn skatepark in the upgraded Town Point Park. This area needs to be used to the highest and best use and take advantage of the LRT stop nearby. High density development should be there, not a skate park, give me a break.

BTW my first skateboard was a Vision gator, remember those?

[Telmnstr]

Sorry guys, I only had a NASH Executioner. The trucks were so far from the board... you could ride it down mount trashmore. Yea, that didn't end so well.

Anyways, put in an office building, and put the skate park in a few floors of the office building :-)

[rusthebuss]

I had a Santa Cruz Tom Knoxx!

[Henry_Ryto]

I was in a meeting this morning with an engineer who has done previous work on light rail locally. The issue came up in the wake of The Virginian-Pravda's editorial on LRT.

We got talking about the Navy base and ODU. I mentioned going to ODU from EVMS via Colley Ave. He told us that has been looked at. The issue you run into is the Right-of-Way: you'd have to widen at points, plus remove some on-street parking from Colley.

It would produce some difficulties, but I think it's fewer than going up Hampton Blvd.

[brikkman]

I was in a meeting this morning with an engineer who has done previous work on light rail locally. The issue came up in the wake of The Virginian-Pravda's editorial on LRT.

We got talking about the Navy base and ODU. I mentioned going to ODU from EVMS via Colley Ave. He told us that has been looked at. The issue you run into is the Right-of-Way: you'd have to widen at points, plus remove some on-street parking from Colley.

It would produce some difficulties, but I think it's fewer than going up Hampton Blvd.

So these are the only two options at this point?

I never considered them going either way.

I thought i would be on the backside of ghent and ODU...

[vdogg]

Passing by on Tidewater drive I see that the light rail bridge is not under construction. It has begun.

[cpeakesqr]

Passing by on Tidewater drive I see that the light rail bridge is not under construction. It has begun.

not or now?

[rusthebuss]

I imagine he means now

[vdogg]

LOL, I meant "now".

[vtfan18]

LOL, I meant "now".

fo'sho'

[vdogg]

New HRT official sets out to link light rail/buses

The new manager of the light rail line has decided to upgrade the feeder bus system. This is definitely a step in the right direction.

[vdogg]

Council balks at skate park idea, wards corner chosen for future site

The Wards Corner suggestion came at the end of a discussion on a city proposal to build a skateboard park downtown near Harbor Park.

After six of the eight council members shot down that idea, Councilwoman Theresa Whibley said, "Why not build one at Wards Corner?

"We're looking for a way to clear some of that area out. It's a great central location," she said. "They're looking for a rec center out there, and we don't have the money for one. So we could start with this."

[andyfried]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,for deciding not to build a skate park there.