Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[carolinaboy]

In reference to the development of the Kern site, I really like the rendering. I think it echoes and enhances the MacArthur Memorial and is in the same scale as it instead of a large building. Very nice for the walking/shopping public if you ask me.

Maybe this will become the new "waterside". Being close to MacArthur it could compliment it rather than compete with it.

Waterside could then be done away with for an expansion of Town Point Park or PRIME real estate the city could sell to recoup some money it has spent to jump-start some other projects.

[lammius]

The plaza, as rendered, is HORRIBLE! Cheap, tacky, cheesy, feigning nostalgic town squares. I don't think preservationists would clamor for the clock tower. It's not historic. It's just cheesy. I'm all for creating great, open public spaces (especially in a park-starved city like Norfolk), but not something like this.

The building-above concept could be great if it's done in such a way that the transit station isn't in a dark, dreary, frightening (especially at night) cavern. If it's in a spacious, airy, bright atrium with office space above or to the side that would be fantastic.

[Sky06]

The plaza, as rendered, is HORRIBLE! Cheap, tacky, cheesy, feigning nostalgic town squares. I don't think preservationists would clamor for the clock tower. It's not historic. It's just cheesy. I'm all for creating great, open public spaces (especially in a park-starved city like Norfolk), but not something like this.

The building-above concept could be great if it's done in such a way that the transit station isn't in a dark, dreary, frightening (especially at night) cavern. If it's in a spacious, airy, bright atrium with office space above or to the side that would be fantastic.

You're being a little over-dramatic, but I agree I'd like to see something else. I kind of light the idea of an open, light atrium. Something that brings unity to the space, not just an open park concept. I still think shops, almost like an airport terminal but brighter and wider, is the way to go.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Sky06

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I was thinking something more like Potsdamerplatz in Berlin would be great...

http://www.sxenon.de/bilder_work_gross/pot...erplatz1998.jpg

http://www.nietvervelen.nl/berlijn/Potsdam...de%20koepel.jpg

Or perhaps something similar in design to the AOL-Time Warner Towers' Lobby in New York:

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com:8080/imag...04239-small.jpg

Certainly not in scale (the Platz is larger than the entire footprint of MacArthur Mall), but the design and usage; perhaps a half-round glass-clad building of a few floors with shops and cafes on the first floors, and offices above. A small building in footprint, but something new and urban, with a light rail station in the middle. It could look fantastic.

Nonetheless, no matter what the city decides to do, it should be a gathering place and feature relevant shops and cafes - maybe a small cybercafe, newsstand, donut shop. Stuff like that. Maybe even a ticket booth for shows at Chrysler Hall, Scope, or the Opera? Just some ideas .

And maybe they can even work a modern-styled clock into the facade of the new building...

[Sky06]

I was thinking something more like Potsdamerplatz in Berlin would be great...

http://www.sxenon.de/bilder_work_gross/pot...erplatz1998.jpg

http://www.nietvervelen.nl/berlijn/Potsdam...de%20koepel.jpg

Or perhaps something similar in design to the AOL-Time Warner Towers' Lobby in New York:

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com:8080/imag...04239-small.jpg

Certainly not in scale (the Platz is larger than the entire footprint of MacArthur Mall), but the design and usage; perhaps a half-round glass-clad building of a few floors with shops and cafes on the first floors, and offices above. A small building in footprint, but something new and urban, with a light rail station in the middle. It could look fantastic.

Nonetheless, no matter what the city decides to do, it should be a gathering place and feature relevant shops and cafes - maybe a small cybercafe, newsstand, donut shop. Stuff like that. Maybe even a ticket booth for shows at Chrysler Hall, Scope, or the Opera? Just some ideas .

And maybe they can even work a modern-styled clock into the facade of the new building...

I think that's what lammius is suggesting, and I agree. A public place, light and open, that attracts people for a coffee, paper, maybe a pastry, while they wait for the train. Make it multi-functional and self-sustaining.

[mikeas]

I think that's what lammius is suggesting, and I agree. A public place, light and open, that attracts people for a coffee, paper, maybe a pastry, while they wait for the train. Make it multi-functional and self-sustaining.

Whatever they build will more than likely be a hang out for the homeless anyway. I'd go for the office building above design.

[Sky06]

Whatever they build will more than likely be a hang out for the homeless anyway. I'd go for the office building above design.

What we're promoting is a building, with indoor terminal, so it wouldn't be a hang-out as you say. On the other hand, if you keep it outdoors and build park benches . . .

[scm]

Governments subsidizes rail lines

Heavy doses of government subsidies drive the light rail systems in Charlotte, N.C., and Norfolk

[Sky06]

Award

Can't wait for the same ol' comments. I suppose this should be expected, considering the complexity of this leg.

[Sky06]

Is construction in progress from Harbor Park east, or are things still on hold? Haven't heard much lately.

[lil-bear]

NSU gives OK

They came to their senses!!!!

[vdogg]

NSU gives OK

They came to their senses!!!!

Not totally. They're still fighting over other stuff. They just gave the go ahead for this particular phase.

[Sky06]

Here's something that hopefully isn't outdated. A letter from the president and briefings regarding NSU's LR concerns.

Light Rail Docs

[brikkman]

I do not know if anyone noticed or cares, but they seem to have cleared the entire right-of-way throughout Nsu's campus (at least from what I can see from eastside of the campus). They also cleared the tracks east of the campus as well (sorry, can't think of the street for some reason, brain cramp). I was a little shocked at that; I thought it would take a little longer for that to happen; moving right along....

Concerning the DT station-stop..I think they should go over the top with something, why not? They are kind of throwing all their eggs into one basket with this project anyways, might as well make it (or at least one stop) grandiose as possible. It will give the people a place to go outside of Granby Street. I would love to see something with a massive front where people could look at the tracks and DT from a different perspective. Build something that is truly unique to region, that's what I would shoot for (tourist brochure quality, lol).

[Telmnstr]

I made comments to the Downtown Norfolk Council and whomever else was on the list for some survey regarding the station that will go where Kirn is.

While I gave some true opinions about the project (these lofty visions from the so-called Norfolk elite are kind of amusing), I gave them some real ideas.

It was called the 2020 plan. Here are my answers from the XML response file. I got no thanks or reply, and I sent a 2nd email with an additional ideas. The important stuff is at the end.

Question1

End users would be older people that moved to Norfolk to retire, poor people that can't afford to own or drive cars, and some commuters that live near the rail line. The makeup of the residents of downtown Norfolk will depend on the housing market crash, and how cheap the condos get (they are still grossly overpriced, especially given the lackluster jobs available in the Hampton Roads area. The same people that don't want to pay a decent wage want sky high prices for real esatate. Ahh, the greed).

Question2

Goals should be to allow people to rapidly get on and off the train, and hopefully keep them out of the way of traffic. And of course to destroy the library so citizens will be on the hook to build a bigger one.

Question3

I don't think Norfolk or Hampton Roads has a soul. It's a soulless region. A good ol' boy network on top of a transient population base. Anyone young, that is good, will be held back by not leaving the area. I would say Waterside is the center of downtown Norfolk, currently. It is what most people would identify. Hampton Roads (Norfolk included) really isn't a good place for young people.

Question4

It's a commerce center of big banks and lawyers. The banks opt to build monuments to themselves versus pay any sort of good interest rate to their members (internet banking is the future). Norfolk has little identity of it's own. A transient population. The older people try to force their vision on the young or pretend that things are great, but really the vision is about enriching themselves. Nothing cool happens here. It's a town dominated by old school money and media that tries to be hip, but fails for the most part. The arts are to mostly to satisfy the old people in the area.

Question5

757 Website? Get that out of here. Everyone will have mobile phones capable of retrieving any data they need rapidly, without a redundant physical representation of a web site. I'd say keep it neat and clean. And water. Waterfalls. Make the light rail (which should have been Maglev. You had the chance to leave something great for the young people of the future. Instead we get a re-deployment of a system that was torn out before, a relic from the past that will hold up traffic everywhere). Waterfalls on both sides of the train when it pulls into the station. And massive amounts of LED driven, full RGB illumination of said water. Norfolk has a serious lack of architectural lighting. But make the old money pay for it by selling naming rights, don't kill the taxpayers struggling to build a retirement (not that my generation will have such a thing.) Don't kill the small people building a monument to Norfolk. And big fountains. Put the fountains on an industrial controls system so they change. Add GOOD QUALITY full color LED signboards, and make it so that no large companies may advertise on it. Make it so it's strictly images submitted by locals, rotating 1 every 20 seconds with a set caption length (approved of course). Or if ads are allowed, anyone can send in an advertisement without cost, it just has to be approved for content similar to those submitted by random people. What better way to curtail graffiti than to encourage it in a digital and non-destructive manner?

Finally, my followup email was in regards to another idea, and that is simple touchscreen driven games that are played between stations. So people in one station waiting for the train could kick off a game of tictactoe against someone at another station, or connect four. And I laid out the ideas on how to make the touchscreen resistant to vandalism. Have you seen that before? No. Did I get a thanks for the idea? No.

Then again, I gave them a proposal for a complete automation system for the Norfolk skyline @ Christmas time, pretty much offering to do it strictly for credit (they fund the parts, and the parts would be gotten as cheap as possible, which I'm pretty good at). Never got a real reply to that either. They'll probably steal the idea, and contract it to their buddies who will charge $10,000 per building instead of $100.

[Sky06]

I made comments to the Downtown Norfolk Council and whomever else was on the list for some survey regarding the station that will go where Kirn is.

Your comments are amusing. I pretty much disagree with everything you said here. P.S, , why do you live here again?

------

Hope everyone takes the time to get feedback to DNC and city on the DT station. Meanwhile, the Gov will be at beach to talk transportation:

forum

[vtfan18]

Norfolk has had the same uninspiring architecture for many years. In my opinion, this is party because Norfolk has turned to one consultant to provide the vision for the city who will ultimately have too much influence over the design of the Kirn lot. Denver is currently going through the same process of deciding what to do with their Union Station, similar to the Kirn site for Light Rail. Although Denver's project is significantly larger. Norfolk could learn a few lessons. Denver has recently narrowed down their four finalist consulting firms to design the public space. Norfolk should do the same thing, by letting firms compete over design, you ultimately end up with a better product as opposed to letting Ray and his old school firm suggest any design they want. He gets paid way to much to tell Norfolk citizens stuff we already know. Want an indirect means of marketing Norfolk and Hampton Roads? Allow world class design firms to comptete over sites like the Kirn lot. Its just another way to bring recognition to our area. Denver citizens formed an advocacy group allowing their citizens a voice in design and function. The difference here being they formed a group just for this project. Whereas DNC seems to want to pick their fingers in everything meanwhile not really accomplishing much. If anyone is interested to read how Denver is handling their project. I've attached a link to Denverinfill's blog.

http://www.denverinfill.com/blog/index.html

[rusthebuss]

Sorry but Norfolk has alot of Soul. I use to think that and left for a year and a half but realized what Norfolk was and how enriched it is. This place is unique and is for the young. There is so much stuff to do here. You have one of the biggest bays in the world. No we don't have a big DT but there is so much more here than other places. Light rail will turn this area around. It will take some time but people will notice this area for what it really is.

[vdogg]

In other news, the new midtown tunnel "project will be designed with possible future transit and rail connections between Norfolk and Portsmouth in mind,"

link

[rusthebuss]

They would be fools not to add that. This is a positive thing for us. We now have people looking ahead and not setting us up for failure down the road

[vdogg]

We now have people looking ahead and not setting us up for failure down the road

Well, most people. Reid still seems to have his head stuck in the sand. I've got two comments waiting in queue right now just for him. I hope they get posted. I usually don't respond directly to a post on there but his inability to read and lack of critical thinking skills really ticked me off. First off, he starts railing on about how they are tolling the DT tunnel just to pay for midtown improvements when its states specifically, in the first paragraph no less, that there will be improvements to the DT tunnel as well. I mean, half this guys post is devoted to this one point, lol. Then he goes on to say:

"BTW - why waste the hundreds of millions to pay for tubes for Light Rail when there isn't any approved or funded Light Rail to connect to the tunnel?"

^^^^I'm just going to let you guys chew on this one a bit. That bitter taste in your mouth is the taste of poor planning. It's called lack of vision and it is what is killing our region. I am tired of Mr. Greenmun and his legion of anti-tax zealots holding this area hostage to their desire for a bygone era, where this region was just a loose collection of small hamlets and villages. The only thing I ever hear come out of their mouth is what they're against, never what they're for. Perhaps if they brought solutions of their own to the table I could begin to take them seriously. [/rant]

Whew, that felt good. I've been holding that inside way too long.

[Henry_Ryto]

Okay, I've gotten in it with him. However, I have to work this afternoon, so can someone lese fire back then?

[rusthebuss]

Okay, I've gotten in it with him. However, I have to work this afternoon, so can someone lese fire back then?

Responding only adds to his point he is trying to make. Sometimes ignoring them works better cause they don't get the attention they want. I just comment with my point like I didn't see their comment.

[vdogg]

Lol, I almost feel bad now. Everyone just kinda piled on Reid. I'd say UP is heavily represented in the comments section this time.

[Henry_Ryto]

Responding only adds to his point he is trying to make. Sometimes ignoring them works better cause they don't get the attention they want. I just comment with my point like I didn't see their comment.

No, you take apart his points to make it clear to readers that he doesn't know what he's talking about.