Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[vdogg]

theFFXcounty, I moved your question to the Va. Beach Town Center thread.

[lil-bear]

electrical contract

Here's another contract that has been awarded!

[Henry_Ryto]

electrical contract

Here's another contract that has been awarded!

Yes, and 5.3% under budget.

[Glassoul]

Yes, and 5.3% under budget.

Phew, I'm glad we can rely on the fact that a construction company would never underbid a contract in order to win it, just like Skanska did with their contract. Oh wait, you say they went $15 million over budget on a $42 million dollar contract? Well, I'm sure that's just an isolated incident. Oh, the bids for the downtown work are coming in wayyy over budget as well? Well, I'm sure those contracts have a very low risk of going over budget and behind schedule, you know with construction being done in downtown and all. Oh, they've already had major construction delays for the most isolated part of the project and most of the work for the LR remains? Well I'm sure HR residents won't mind waiting an additional year, and if it goes $55 million over budget, I'm sure they won't mind that either. At least once it is built there won't be any more need to provide public funding to keep it running cause I'm pretty sure the people selling the system didn't make any mention of that, I guess The Tide will be unique in that regard. Anyway, even if there are operating costs, I'm sure The Tide have more than enough passengers to cover it and that Norfolk taxpayers won't be left holding the bill.

Don't say I didn't warn you guys...

[vdogg]

Phew, I'm glad we can rely on the fact that a construction company would never underbid a contract in order to win it, just like Skanska did with their contract. Oh wait, you say they went $15 million over budget on a $42 million dollar contract? Well, I'm sure that's just an isolated incident. Oh, the bids for the downtown work are coming in wayyy over budget as well? Well, I'm sure those contracts have a very low risk of going over budget and behind schedule, you know with construction being done in downtown and all. Oh, they've already had major construction delays for the most isolated part of the project and most of the work for the LR remains? Well I'm sure HR residents won't mind waiting an additional year, and if it goes $55 million over budget, I'm sure they won't mind that either. At least once it is built there won't be any more need to provide public funding to keep it running cause I'm pretty sure the people selling the system didn't make any mention of that, I guess The Tide will be unique in that regard. Anyway, even if there are operating costs, I'm sure The Tide have more than enough passengers to cover it and that Norfolk taxpayers won't be left holding the bill.

Don't say I didn't warn you guys...

Who are you and what did you do with Glassoul? That's an uncharacteristically pessimistic prediction, even for you. Lets just let this process play out, things have been going fairly smooth so far. Is it your contention that light rail shouldn't have been built in the first place? On what do you base your opinion?

[urbanfan]

Phew, I'm glad we can rely on the fact that a construction company would never underbid a contract in order to win it, just like Skanska did with their contract. Oh wait, you say they went $15 million over budget on a $42 million dollar contract? Well, I'm sure that's just an isolated incident. Oh, the bids for the downtown work are coming in wayyy over budget as well? Well, I'm sure those contracts have a very low risk of going over budget and behind schedule, you know with construction being done in downtown and all. Oh, they've already had major construction delays for the most isolated part of the project and most of the work for the LR remains? Well I'm sure HR residents won't mind waiting an additional year, and if it goes $55 million over budget, I'm sure they won't mind that either. At least once it is built there won't be any more need to provide public funding to keep it running cause I'm pretty sure the people selling the system didn't make any mention of that, I guess The Tide will be unique in that regard. Anyway, even if there are operating costs, I'm sure The Tide have more than enough passengers to cover it and that Norfolk taxpayers won't be left holding the bill.

Don't say I didn't warn you guys...

The skanska contract was not underbid and then found out to be over budget. The contract initailly was over budget period. Skanska could not do it for what the city budgeted. Not the other way around. Skanska rightfully bid the project to where they needed it and now the city will have to pitch in to make up for the money they didn't plan for.

[urbanvb]

Planned park-and-ride lot at Military Highway hits snag

An essential park-and-ride lot for the city's starter light-rail line now under construction will probably not be ready when passengers start boarding in early 2010. Hampton Roads Transit likely will offer limited, temporary parking for the Military Highway station until land is identified to accommodate 232 parking spaces.

[Glassoul]

On what do you base your opinion?

Cause when have I ever been wrong about the bad stuff on this forum?

Oh, and mass transit systems NEVER come in on budget and on time. They've admitted that they under priced the work for downtown and all the bids have come in significantly over what they expected. Now you have the city's lack of foresight in securing property for a park-and-ride at the 4th busiest stop? Rhetorical question. Ask yourself if you really believe that the downtown section will come in on budget and/or on time. Have you ever heard the city council or the mayor or HRT talk about how much it's going to cost to run this thing over the long-term (you DO realize that this is as much per year as financing the capital costs)? Ever heard them talk about what happens if they don't make their numbers?

I'm fine with mass transit. I probably have more experience with it than all the usual Norfolk Urbanplanet posters combined. I think my previous posts on the topic cover why I think this is a bad idea. You can look them up if you're inclined. However, I honestly hope I'm wrong here and that it turns out on budget and surpasses ridership expectations.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Glassoul

[lil-bear]

Smith's Creek Bridge

Here's another phase!

[lil-bear]

Downtown construction zones

Here's some more!

[Jim Nasty]

Cause when have I ever been wrong about the bad stuff on this forum?

Oh, and mass transit systems NEVER come in on budget and on time. They've admitted that they under priced the work for downtown and all the bids have come in significantly over what they expected. Now you have the city's lack of foresight in securing property for a park-and-ride at the 4th busiest stop? Rhetorical question. Ask yourself if you really believe that the downtown section will come in on budget and/or on time. Have you ever heard the city council or the mayor or HRT talk about how much it's going to cost to run this thing over the long-term (you DO realize that this is as much per year as financing the capital costs)? Ever heard them talk about what happens if they don't make their numbers?

I'm fine with mass transit. I probably have more experience with it than all the usual Norfolk Urbanplanet posters combined. I think my previous posts on the topic cover why I think this is a bad idea. You can look them up if you're inclined. However, I honestly hope I'm wrong here and that it turns out on budget and surpasses ridership expectations.

IMHO, I don't think its lack of foresight that'll make LR over-budget, its a reality of the times.

These projects have been studied and bid on using prices that were real two years ago. With the rise in costs of oil, everything becomes more expensive. All the pile drivers, arrow signs, concrete mixers etc. etc. which use gas in doing the most mundane of tasks are not an expense you quantify by what you see on the gas price sign @ WaWa. Oil prices are hitting every contractor, their bidding jobs that cover their costs so they can keep the jobs coming. Making a profit is secondary and getting it in on time is an afterthought.

That all being said, for the most part, except for the park-and-ride issue of late, things seem to be moving along pretty good with LR.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Jim Nasty

[vtfan18]

Cause when have I ever been wrong about the bad stuff on this forum?

Oh, and mass transit systems NEVER come in on budget and on time. They've admitted that they under priced the work for downtown and all the bids have come in significantly over what they expected. Now you have the city's lack of foresight in securing property for a park-and-ride at the 4th busiest stop? Rhetorical question. Ask yourself if you really believe that the downtown section will come in on budget and/or on time. Have you ever heard the city council or the mayor or HRT talk about how much it's going to cost to run this thing over the long-term (you DO realize that this is as much per year as financing the capital costs)? Ever heard them talk about what happens if they don't make their numbers?

I'm fine with mass transit. I probably have more experience with it than all the usual Norfolk Urbanplanet posters combined. I think my previous posts on the topic cover why I think this is a bad idea. You can look them up if you're inclined. However, I honestly hope I'm wrong here and that it turns out on budget and surpasses ridership expectations.

No arguement here about going over budget. How many government projects out there come in on or under budget? Not many. Ridership levels will probably be lower than expected with the first phase. However, light rail projects see significant ridership level increases when the second phase comes online. It only makes sense, greater connections and expanded reach with commuters becoming more confortable with the idea of mass transit. Our general population is very conservative to say the least and still think they're living in an age of dial up internet. Most of our citizens still believe buying a 3500sf home in the suburbs is the American dream. It'll take time and lots of money but in the end, light rail here will be money well spent.

[brikkman]

So they started tearing up the ground on the west side brambleton for Lightrail. Does anyone know if the city plans to address the flooding problem on that side of brambleton?

[vdogg]

So they started tearing up the ground on the west side brambleton for Lightrail. Does anyone know if the city plans to address the flooding problem on that side of brambleton?

Honestly, I haven't heard anything about addressing the flooding problem. I don't think anything is planned.

[monsoon]

Folks I will remind everyone again to read the rules and not create posts that are nothing more than links to newspaper sources or for that matter any link only posts. If you have any questions send a PM to me.

[spiker3]

LR Station Near NSU to be Moved

....adding 'only' $1.5 million to the cost...

The light-rail station that will serve Norfolk State University will be moved farther away from campus, a change that ends months of controversy that began when school officials raised concerns about safety.

The change, approved Thursday by Hampton Roads Transit

[rusthebuss]

I would get rid of the stop completely! Screw them idiots! They do some of the dumbest things out there. I worked out there for a couple years and man I swear I don't know how NSU is even still around. They are worried about security? There is so much crime on the campus done by the students! Someone was always getting assaulted out there and peoples dorms got cleared by other students! City should fight with everything that NSU wants. Take the 1.45 mill for money they would be giving them. The property they were complaining about was given to them by the city. I guess thats how they repay the city for what it does for them

[brikkman]

LR Station Near NSU to be Moved

....adding 'only' $1.5 million to the cost...

It's unfortunate that the city gave in to NSU, and created an entire new problem with NSU's selfishness. Now students will have to dart across 6 lanes of traffic to get to class because of NSU's short-sighted judgment and posturing. Yet the city is the one who looks bad in this, which is a disgrace. They called NSU a partner, but if anything they've been a hindrance from the start and continue to be, willing to put their student body at risk rather than see the stupidity of claiming 'security issues' by having a station on campus. Disgraceful.

Wow, its like one bone head move after the other. I would rather hear NSU fight to the death about the stop not being near them at all, instead they say, ey, move it across the street, that sure will the proposed crime increase. I'm actually in shock about the city decision to let that ride. I guess NSU does not believe their students will not get much use out of the rail, so it is no benefit to them.

I can not believe NSU feels that this will not help them and their student body, instead of an all or nothing, they decide to waste money and move it across one of Norfolk's busiest streets. Oh that's right, no one in Norfolk "J" walks. If I were a student (with no car and worked in DT Norfolk), I would be PISSED. Hell at best, NSU could have requested that additional Norfolk police Security be housed at that stop. Hell put a mini police station there if you felt that much concern. Hell, its taking 1.4 million to move the stop. How about we leave the stop, take that money to invest in two permanent police officers and see how that turns out in about 12 to 18 years. I mean if we are going blow an additional 1.4 million, let

Edited September 26, 2008 by brikkman

[lammius]

Wow... adding $1.5M to do it the wrong way. NSU has everything to gain by bringing LRT to campus. I just don't understand what they're thinking.

[rusthebuss]

I love the comments on the article. Still have the idiots saying that its a train to no where. Then some are saying why doesn't go to the oceanfront. I guess the idiots really don't keep up with the progress since 94 of this project. Of couse, aalto had some negative stuff to say

Edited September 26, 2008 by rusthebuss

[vdogg]

Light Rail behind schedule and over budget

Not really as catastrophic as the title suggest as you read further in, but you know how the pilot loves to play the doom and gloom angle.

Of the five contracts already awarded, three were slightly under budget, one was a little over, and one, for installing track downtown, was significantly over.

That said, here's the main culprit. Right now, i think we should just drop the NSU stop altogether. I'm tired of their whining and they care absolutely nothing for our city and too much for their pride.

Until recently, officials have said contingency funds built into the budget likely would cover overruns.

Last month, the HRT's board approved an additional $1.45 million to move the light-rail station that will serve Norfolk State University, addressing school officials' security concerns.

Out for bid now is demolition of Kirn Memorial Library and other buildings in the rail's path, as well as construction of the rail maintenance and shop facility, which has been redesigned at the request of NSU.

Several other enhancements are being considered, including station design and landscaping and fencing near neighborhoods.

"That cost escalation is not so much miscalculations, but a desire to make this project the highest quality it can be," Townes said.

[NSUREDD]

WOW Rusthebuss, Those dumb people at NSU must have really done a job on you, what is with all the hate??

[brikkman]

That said, here's the main culprit. Right now, i think we should just drop the NSU stop altogether. I'm tired of their whining and they care absolutely nothing for our city and too much for their pride.

I disagree; I think they should ignore their whining and go with the initial plans. Most people would agree (this is aside from those who think it is a waste of money) that stop is very important to the city and the students who attend NSU. I think it is "lax azz

[virginia pe]

That said, here's the main culprit. Right now, i think we should just drop the NSU stop altogether. I'm tired of their whining and they care absolutely nothing for our city and too much for their pride.

I am as disgusted with NSU's whining as everyone else, but to be fair, I don't think they are the main culprit. The cost of the NSA changes is $1.5 million. Skanska's bid for the segment from Harbor Park to Sentara Hospital was $15 million above the city's estimate. (Don't ask me how you even try to estimate the difficulties of putting a light rail track through downtown with over 100 years' of utilties under the street.)

I don't think they should abandon the NSA station, even though NSU doesn't deserve one because of their attitude. My concern is that the first time a student is killed crossing Brambleton Avenue, they will whine for a pedestrian bridge from the station to the campus (at taxpayers' expense, of course). Then we will be back to the original concept, with direct access from the LR station to campus, but with an expenditure of millions of dollars for the LR redesign plus the cost of the bridge.

Speaking of pedestrian bridges, NSU demanded the pedestrian bridge across I-264, too. I understand the NSU end of that bridge is now gated and locked to keep "undesireables" out of the campus.

[lil-bear]

Looking at the renderings of what the stations might look like, I have to wonder.......

How many millions are budgeted for these stations that require less material than a $200,000 house?