Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[Telmnstr]

So they started tearing up the ground on the west side brambleton for Lightrail. Does anyone know if the city plans to address the flooding problem on that side of brambleton?

I think someone from the Freemason association asked about flooding and the plan was to stop all service when the tracks flood out.

(seriously)

[Telmnstr]

I love the comments on the article. Still have the idiots saying that its a train to no where. Then some are saying why doesn't go to the oceanfront. I guess the idiots really don't keep up with the progress since 94 of this project. Of couse, aalto had some negative stuff to say

Hey, when I say it's dumb I say it's dumb because it's light rail and ground based.

We're supposed to build something good for the future generations. But they are re-deploying the past. If we're going to borrow money from China to build things, might as well go all out and get something that is fast and automated, and doesn't impede traffic.

If I was in control of the project, when it's done you'd be like "OMG, that jank is TIGHT . No train would roll without full RGB LED ground effects along the guide rail, and they'd have to move fast and quietly.

[urbanfan]

Hey, when I say it's dumb I say it's dumb because it's light rail and ground based.

We're supposed to build something good for the future generations. But they are re-deploying the past. If we're going to borrow money from China to build things, might as well go all out and get something that is fast and automated, and doesn't impede traffic.

If I was in control of the project, when it's done you'd be like "OMG, that jank is TIGHT . No train would roll without full RGB LED ground effects along the guide rail, and they'd have to move fast and quietly.

If you were running the project every one would have to stand in line for soup and bread because you would bankrupt the economy trying to build something that is ridiculously expensive. Maybe in the future, the technology will come down in price but as of now, not worth it.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

This is a nice video of the light rail project showing what it will be like to travel from stop to stop. Sorry if this has been linked before.

Ride the Tide

Edited October 30, 2008 by Chesapeake Pirate

[Telmnstr]

If you were running the project every one would have to stand in line for soup and bread because you would bankrupt the economy trying to build something that is ridiculously expensive. Maybe in the future, the technology will come down in price but as of now, not worth it.

It will never come down in price until there is more demand. And the ODU system has a lower cost per mile in regards to track cost than the "intelligent" track of the German Transrapid (which one of the Asian countries is deploying heavily soon I think, which is going to mean they will be riding around at 500mph of no friction transit while we putter in stupid old trains. The glory days of American innovation and pioneering, but a distant memory.)

[Telmnstr]

This is a nice video of the light rail project showing what it will be like to travel from stop to stop. Sorry if this has been linked before.

Ride the Tide

I'll say the same thing I sent to Jack...

Nice bit of social engineering in that video! Look at when it's going next to the interstate. The cars are all slower than the train. In real life the cars will be zipping past it.

Also when it's downtown there is one vehicle in the streets, which is held up by pedestrians of the fast moving train. Train leaves while car is stuck. But in real life it will be a traffic mess, and cars will prob pass it all the time.

Fun to look for that kind of stuff.

[urbanfan]

I'll say the same thing I sent to Jack...

Nice bit of social engineering in that video! Look at when it's going next to the interstate. The cars are all slower than the train. In real life the cars will be zipping past it.

Also when it's downtown there is one vehicle in the streets, which is held up by pedestrians of the fast moving train. Train leaves while car is stuck. But in real life it will be a traffic mess, and cars will prob pass it all the time.

Fun to look for that kind of stuff.

Not necessarily. These light rail cars are capable of doing 65 mph unabated. Considering that this track is elevated and separated from most roads along the highway portion and factoring in that their is considerable distance between stops along the highway, it is very possible to match "normal speed limits". It won't be slower until it gets into the city area, then things slow down allot.

[Telmnstr]

Not necessarily. These light rail cars are capable of doing 65 mph unabated. Considering that this track is elevated and separated from most roads along the highway portion and factoring in that their is considerable distance between stops along the highway, it is very possible to match "normal speed limits". It won't be slower until it gets into the city area, then things slow down allot.

Okay. The video still shows the cars beating the traffic on the road.

I dunno about you, but coming off of Waterside drive up onto 264... it's 80MPH+!!!!

[rusthebuss]

Okay. The video still shows the cars beating the traffic on the road.

I dunno about you, but coming off of Waterside drive up onto 264... it's 80MPH+!!!!

Not at rush hour ur not

[stillill]

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/11/109-millio...cility-near-nsu

jim jones has it right...i hate the boo birds on the pilot...they ruin my viewing experience. This is a starter line...the first 12 construction projects that they have submitted for bid...it is guaranteed that it will go over budget. we have many to go...

First the starter line...second, extend to the waterfront. third, down hampton blvd to the base...fourth, down shore drive to little creek and beyond...fifth, join the second extension to the waterfront (past oceana) to the spur coming down the northside and add on a spur to the airport...15 years and a viable public transportation system for a middle-market metropolitan area...and then on our way to greatness (dont worry wards corner people, they will put a spur following the old trolley system straight down granby to join up in ov).

I love it.

[cpeakesqr]

Interesting.

Some nice bits of info about light rail made their way into this piece about the Jordan Bridge.

[spiker3]

Interesting.

Some nice bits of info about light rail made their way into this piece about the Jordan Bridge.

Indeed. I'm curious about the travel path along the Elizabeth River that the city has in mind for LR. It still probably makes the most sense getting to ODU and Naval Base. A little discouraging with the comment it won't happen while he is the mayor...

[lil-bear]

Light Rail

This is encouraging!!!

The negative posters are annoying!!!

[mlsimons]

Light Rail

This is encouraging!!!

The negative posters are annoying!!!

I hate the negative posters, I slayed some with my comment tho. I'm so excited for Norfolk....really can't wait.

[Telmnstr]

We'll see when the thing is built. Neat concept but wrong technology. Also, with HRT running it the thing will forever loose money.

[CaveMaN]

Very positive. I really enjoyed how easy it was to get around in Charlotte then last time I was there, and can't wait to see it start up in Norfolk as well. Where Norfolk is moving forward, the beach is just falling further & further behind...

[Padman]

I saw some of those comments on the Pilot. The usual stuff-from uninformed rants to idealists. Some of the negativity is probably right--gives us something to think about. I'd still rather have LRT than a pro basketball team, even if I don't use it very often. We have that rail corridor running all the way to the oceanfront, why not use it? When the faster technology arrives in 25 years or so, we will have a relatively straight, right of way in place, ready to transition to the faster and better technology, whatever that is. And we can start to cluster development close to LRT stations now.

[mlsimons]

I saw some of those comments on the Pilot. The usual stuff-from uninformed rants to idealists. Some of the negativity is probably right--gives us something to think about. I'd still rather have LRT than a pro basketball team, even if I don't use it very often. We have that rail corridor running all the way to the oceanfront, why not use it? When the faster technology arrives in 25 years or so, we will have a relatively straight, right of way in place, ready to transition to the faster and better technology, whatever that is. And we can start to cluster development close to LRT stations now.

Good post, We have to think forward if we're going to understand this. Transit Oriented Development is where the true revenue is generated. No one can deny Charlotte Lynx's 1.8 billion in annonced development. Even if the light rail doesn't pay for itself. The TOD does, and it depends on the LRT. And even if we do switch to a new technology, heavy rail, or a 3 car LRT(which is the long-term plan). We have to have the basic infrastructure first, which is what we are doing now. This is truely the best investment Norfolk can make. Once the recession is over, there is a good chance the Middle East may raise oil prices beyond what we are able to pay while still living 20+ min away from our jobs. By the way, not everyone lives in VB and works at NOB. While I understand its importance to extend LRT out there, I think the initial investment should be downtown norfolk and town center. Hopefully the next phases will be to the airport, into portsmouth via new midtown tunnel, to ODU/NOB, and to the Oceanfront... in no particular order. I would like to see light rail go over/under 264 by mt trashmore, then split down S. Independence all the way past Green Run. There is ample room in the median of S. Independence, and plenty of people who either work downtown/ODU/NOB within walking distance of S. Independence. Plus the majority of Green Run students can walk to a rail station on S. Independence, which would save alot of school bus expense. Later an extention can be made to turn onto princess anne and extend the line down P.A. (which will need to be widened anyways) all the way to the courthouse (a 25 year goal). There are so many places of employment already along the existing NS line...Oceana, the Oceanfront, Town Center, Norfolk State, Downtown, Norfolk General/EVMS. Light Rail is guranteed to work. I have a huge S. Hampton Roads map on my wall with potential light rail mapped out in detail with sharpie. If you were ever going to pick a model metro area to introduce a rail system, H.R. has the least amount of obsticles and the most potential.

Edited December 6, 2008 by mlsimons

[jeffconn]

Good post, We have to think forward if we're going to understand this. Transit Oriented Development is where the true revenue is generated. No one can deny Charlotte Lynx's 1.8 billion in annonced development. Even if the light rail doesn't pay for itself. The TOD does, and it depends on the LRT. And even if we do switch to a new technology, heavy rail, or a 3 car LRT(which is the long-term plan). We have to have the basic infrastructure first, which is what we are doing now. This is truely the best investment Norfolk can make. Once the recession is over, there is a good chance the Middle East may raise oil prices beyond what we are able to pay while still living 20+ min away from our jobs. By the way, not everyone lives in VB and works at NOB. While I understand its importance to extend LRT out there, I think the initial investment should be downtown norfolk and town center. Hopefully the next phases will be to the airport, into portsmouth via new midtown tunnel, to ODU/NOB, and to the Oceanfront... in no particular order. I would like to see light rail go over/under 264 by mt trashmore, then split down S. Independence all the way past Green Run. There is ample room in the median of S. Independence, and plenty of people who either work downtown/ODU/NOB within walking distance of S. Independence. Plus the majority of Green Run students can walk to a rail station on S. Independence, which would save alot of school bus expense. Later an extention can be made to turn onto princess anne and extend the line down P.A. (which will need to be widened anyways) all the way to the courthouse (a 25 year goal). There are so many places of employment already along the existing NS line...Oceana, the Oceanfront, Town Center, Norfolk State, Downtown, Norfolk General/EVMS. Light Rail is guranteed to work. I have a huge S. Hampton Roads map on my wall with potential light rail mapped out in detail with sharpie. If you were ever going to pick a model metro area to introduce a rail system, H.R. has the least amount of obsticles and the most potential.

if you could come up with something on google maps, i'd love to see that map. i don't pretend to understand the light rail/heavy rail differences, but i have always wondered why all these tracks here in norfolk couldn't carry commuter trains. My 'if i ran Hampton Roads' dream proposal would have involved adding tracks parallel to the existing ones, and running commuter routes there. Lots of people in HR live near some RR tracks, and i would have guessed that would have been cheaper and less intrusive that building on the roads. Oh well. i'm just pleased as punch that i'll be able to ride the Tide in 2010.

Edited December 6, 2008 by jeffconn

[mlsimons]

I use maps.live.com for everything. Its quicker on my computer and I love the bird's-eye view feature!! Use it to look at a possible route from town center across 264 beside mt. trashmore and eventually to S. Independence.

[mlsimons]

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/cost-norfo...ases-24-percent

I think a lot of people saw this coming...strangely I'm more upset about the completion delay, Summer or Fall 2010!!!!

[willy]

The posts on the latest article about LRT on the pilot are funny. The "podunk town" comment is funny. These people don't like anything that helps a city/town/metro area move forward. If it's so bad here why do they continue to stay? Just move to some ginormous metropolis like Charlotte, lol.

[Telmnstr]

Some people moved here to get away from the big city.

Some people care about gov't debt and taxes.

Also, I saw people talking about light rail speeds... are the tracks that straight? I was looking at the stuff near NSU and it looked kinda squiggley.

It'd be funny to build a pimped out unauthorized vehicle that could run on those tracks.

[mlsimons]

Ok, so another bit of bad news has been reported by the Virginian-Pilot recently....about light rail going over-budget. I will I understand people getting upset about the issue, I wanted to present another end of the spectrum not reported on. Here's my comment about the report.

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/light-rail...#comment-681796

(I agree, this is definitely bad news. But it stings much worse when its not reported comprehensively. If the subject is LRT "going over budget," then we get it. But how about at least mentioning all the contracts awarded that have gone under budget: Contract 60 awarded to "Truland" awarded 2,035,689 UNDER BUDGET; contract 100 (park & ride lots) awarded 2,595,039 UNDER BUDGET by 40%!!! (More than enough to cover the over-budget contract reported here. Also: the "construction Admin & Management" funding awarded 2,024,000 UNDER BUDGET; the projects "financial charges" also were awarded 2,437,000 UNDER BUDGET (A full 61.8% under budget). I'm sorry but this report can almost be labeled propagandic by only disclosing a relatively minuscule amount of money awarded over-budget, (936,000), respectively.)

[mistermetaj]

From the article:

"Fred Schneader, HRT's senior vice president for construction, said the agency was not aware of the extent of hazardous materials in the buildings to be demolished and its mitigation and disposal is mainly to blame for driving up the cost."

That makes no sense of me. So they just arbitrarily agreed to demolition without doing any form of interior inspection and now when we are months away from demolition decided to take a look...? How about HRT covers all of the cost and not the tax payers. I am completely for development and I LOVE light rail, but this is not right. Why shouldn't they pay for their bad management?

On an off note, this may not be the right place for this, but is anyone else underwhelmed by the proposed station that is so highly touted to replace the library?