Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[urbanlife]

Just finished looking at the progress presentation HRT submitted to the city and got a glimpse of the future. You can see the presentation here. It is the first line below Construction Updates at the top. They talk about what is being conducted in the studies for the future extensions to the Beach and Navy Base. The route to the Navy Base generally follows I-64 or Military Highway to 564 and possibly over to the third crossing in the future. They are not looking at the extension at this time going from the medical center past ODU and up to the Navy Base. If it does happen it will be in the future.

That makes sense, the region isnt built to that typical core city structure and running a second line up 64 would be more beneficial to everyone...and could create a new urban center for the city. Where those two lines would meet, would be a possibility for an urban center. Running through that area would be

Train A: the beach to the base

Train B: the beach to DT Norfolk

Train C: DT Norfolk to the base

Which would be a great system to have in place and to build off of it. There also could be a shuttle available to run from the light rail to the airport very easily this way. When the third crossing happened, it would make living on the peninsula much easier with the option of taking light rail.

Eventually I can see light rail running up through ODU to the base, or the city could end up using a smaller train for innercity public transportation (which is the choice I would love to see).

[Mos]

Now one possibility, would be to run the line straight down Hampton Blvd, along with traffic until you get past the railroad tracks. I thought this would be impossible, but I just got back from Boston, and their "E" "Green line" runs a 2 car light rail right on the street with electrical wires above. It sits in traffic and at lights, but this is a possibility. The only problems would be fitting the rail under the railroad, and the possibility of creating gridlock on Hampton....But if, if, the third crossing was a success in routing the trucks off Hampton, and if the midtown tunnel got the expansion with a light rail tube. Then it may in fact free up traffic enough to work, and connect the highest density Norfolk area to the rail line.

Another possibility, that I haven't seen mentioned, would be to split the line; down Colley and up Hampton (or Manteo). The St. Charles Streetcar in downtown New Orleans work this way from Lee Circle to Canal Street.

[cpeakesqr]

Another possibility, that I haven't seen mentioned, would be to split the line; down Colley and up Hampton (or Manteo). The St. Charles Streetcar in downtown New Orleans work this way from Lee Circle to Canal Street.

I assume that the NOLA setup isn't shared with vehicles?

[urbanlife]

I assume that the NOLA setup isn't shared with vehicles?

It looks like it shares the road with vehicles. Though it looks like it is a small older cable car that runs on the track.

New Orleans streetcar

[cpeakesqr]

It looks like it shares the road with vehicles. Though it looks like it is a small older cable car that runs on the track.

New Orleans streetcar

Link is messed up.

So if the train went up Hampton Blvd, would it loop back down Colley?

[varider]

The streetcar idea is okay. If it were up to me I would keep it LRT so you don't have to transfer.

[Mobius57]

Apparently the have scratched one of the cars and now are going with 8 atm, no matter if its needed i can be ordered later.

[vdogg]

Apparently the have scratched one of the cars and now are going with 8 atm, no matter if its needed i can be ordered later.

I'm sure they did this to balance out some of the cost overruns.

[vdogg]

Apparently the have scratched one of the cars and now are going with 8 atm, no matter if its needed i can be ordered later.

Actually, I think this is a completely different piece of equipment they scratched.

The Hampton Roads Transit board voted Thursday to reduce a light-rail contract by $514,000.

The $10.9 million contract to build and outfit the light-rail vehicle storage and maintenance facility includes the purchase of a $1.1 million piece of equipment called a multipurpose vehicle mover.

It is being replaced with a less expensive model, HRT spokesman Tom Holden said.

[Mobius57]

ohhhh.. lol

[Mos]

It looks like it shares the road with vehicles. Though it looks like it is a small older cable car that runs on the track.

New Orleans streetcar

Correct on both accounts. Instead of figuring out how to cram two lines onto these smaller streets, I think you can split them as long as they don't get too far apart. To make it even better, the city should build some small parking decks behind the Colley businesses (like Carytown in Richmond) and eliminate on street parking on one side of the street, thus creating a travel lane for rail.

[urbanfan]

Correct on both accounts. Instead of figuring out how to cram two lines onto these smaller streets, I think you can split them as long as they don't get too far apart. To make it even better, the city should build some small parking decks behind the Colley businesses (like Carytown in Richmond) and eliminate on street parking on one side of the street, thus creating a travel lane for rail.

Or you can single track it through the area till a little further up Hampton. Were not talking a long distance here.

[brikkman]

Isn't that equivalent to a bus?

[urbanfan]

Isn't that equivalent to a bus?

What?

[cpeakesqr]

Or you can single track it through the area till a little further up Hampton. Were not talking a long distance here.

How would a train on a single track go back south down Hampton Blvd if it's sharing a lane with vehicle traffic? That's why I got confused, shouldn't it loop or something to get back to the medical center?

[lil-bear]

IF HRT was EVER going to consider a LR route from Fort Norfolk to ODU and NOB, I think the following would be the best alternative:

Run LR north down Colley Ave. starting at Brambleton Ave.

Eliminate all on-street parking on Colley.(a loss of about 50 parallel parking spaces.) Build two parking garages behind businesses on Colley.

After going under the NS rail overpass, continue north on Colley. Each direction will turn onto 26th and 27th streets. Southbound will run down 26th Street, and Northbound will run down 27th Street. (Both ONE WAY streets)

LR will then turn back north on Hampton Blvd past ODU onto NOB.

This to me would be the best route.

It will service the Colley Ave. Business sector, ODU, and the Naval Base.

Edited May 29, 2009 by lil-bear

[foun10head]

IF HRT was EVER going to consider a LR route from Fort Norfolk to ODU and NOB, I think the following would be the best alternative:

Run LR north down Colley Ave. starting at Brambleton Ave.

Eliminate all on-street parking on Colley.(a loss of about 50 parallel parking spaces.) Build two parking garages behind businesses on Colley.

After going under the NS rail overpass, continue north on Colley. Each direction will turn onto 26th and 27th streets. Southbound will run down 26th Street, and Northbound will run down 27th Street. (Both ONE WAY streets)

LR will then turn back north on Hampton Blvd past ODU onto NOB.

This to me would be the best route.

It will service the Colley Ave. Business sector, ODU, and the Naval Base.

[foun10head]

I like your idea but think it might be best to have the light rail go left AND right on 21st. St. To the left you could route the light rail to Hampton Blvd. and down toward ODU and on to NOB. To the right you could eliminate some parking on 21st St. (as you suggested be done on Colley) and extend the rail to Monticello and go in a loop towards downtown. This way you pick up all the commercial areas of Ghent and increase development on Monticello, which is ripe for development, as well as connect downtown, Ghent, ODU and NOB.

[urbanfan]

How would a train on a single track go back south down Hampton Blvd if it's sharing a lane with vehicle traffic? That's why I got confused, shouldn't it loop or something to get back to the medical center?

I didn't say single track it through one lane road. Obviously it would entail bying a right of way for the train to run, however, with a single track, the right of way purchase would me significantly less than double tracking it through the area.

[vtfan18]

I've complained numerous times about Norfolk doing a very poor job of communicating the reasons, benefits, and future potential of light rail. I finally came across something I think would help Norfolk better illustrate and sell the idea. I don't think this has been previously posted but there are 91 pages of comments about light rail so I'm not completely positive. But this is an animation that takes Norfolk's current animation one step further. Norfolk's light rail animation falls short because it only shows the general public what light rail will look like. It does not show them what the city could look like or what life could be like with mass transit. This animation was created for the city of Kansas City and its a great selling point in my opinion. As a side note, the images in this animation (mixed use buildings) are fairly indicative of how I would I would plan St Paul's. Enjoy!

Imagine Kansas City Animation

[brikkman]

I've complained numerous times about Norfolk doing a very poor job of communicating the reasons, benefits, and future potential of light rail. I finally came across something I think would help Norfolk better illustrate and sell the idea. I don't think this has been previously posted but there are 91 pages of comments about light rail so I'm not completely positive. But this is an animation that takes Norfolk's current animation one step further. Norfolk's light rail animation falls short because it only shows the general public what light rail will look like. It does not show them what the city could look like or what life could be like with mass transit. This animation was created for the city of Kansas City and its a great selling point in my opinion. As a side note, the images in this animation (mixed use buildings) are fairly indicative of how I would I would plan St Paul's. Enjoy!

Imagine Kansas City Animation

I think your right. A video like that would get citizens to get behind the project, especially if they were on the fence about it. The videos they current have up are just what it will be like when the project is done, not what it could and will be.

[CaveMaN]

Really an amazing video, I loved especially where all the surface lots become mixed used highrises!

Norfolk really does need something of similar structure to this video... I mean heck, look what has happened just along brambleton before the rail is even here. I get more & more excited to see tracks begin getting laid every single day... cannot wait to be able to walk downstairs, across the street, and cruise wherever I want to go.

I think most people who are level headed will begin seeing the appeal once it is finally completed though, or at least, I sure hope they do-

[rusthebuss]

First, we have to have the jobs here to support these types of urban developments. We have to do better in attracting higher paying jobs here. Kansas City has a lot of higher paying jobs and we don't. I think the region needs to do better in attracting jobs here instead of stabbing each other in the back....Light rail will help some but there has to be changes in our leadership....We need to become a educational hub for this state. I just don't think that we will see stuff like that until we have jobs to afford that type of lifestyle

[varider]

It pisses me off knowing how much potential Hampton Roads has and how under- utilized the area is.. I wish our elected officials would get off of their asses and fight for the different things our metro deserves such as high paying jobs, company relocations, transportation advances, ect.. HR should have the largest port on the east coast, Norfolk should have way more corporate jobs, Suffolk could have way more warehouses and distribution centers and stuff, we deserve more than minor league sports.. I wish we would stop dragging our feet.

[Sky06]

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. As long as our cities continue to fight one another, we'll continue to lose out to other metro areas. Each city has something to offer, and each needs to be marketed that way as a part of a whole.