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Norfolk Light Rail and Transit


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Amtrak will add a 3rd Norfolk to DC train sometime this year. https://www.pilotonline.com/news/transportation/vp-nw-passenger-rail-hampton-roads-buttigieg-northam-20210331-zdpqhmjqzfe5rcioi3brqor

Once it's 4 lanes, then people will really see why a third crossing is needed

They focus too much on bus service. There is and always will be a stigma on using the city bus. Enough of the light rail studies and get it done already. 

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The FTA demanded that parking be limited along the route. This was a federal law that had to be agreed to in order to receive light rail funds. I'm sure Charlotte had to apply by the same rules when building their system.

That restriction was only for downtown not the rest of the route. Park and rides are expected to have garages at some point. Military Highway was to be one of those however, that has gone away for now.

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Tracks can be seen in front of the mall.

My coworker who rides the bus to work is over at that mall buying new pants. He sat down on the bus this morning and didn't notice the giant URINE PUDDLE left by a previous rider.

Go go mass transit.

You made this comment on another board as well, and i'll pose the same question to you here as others did there. Do you mean to say that because your friend lost a pair of pants that we should now give up on mass transit in HR? I mean, come on Tel, one anecdotal case does not a trend make. By your logic, if one plane somewhere falls out of the sky no one anywhere should ever fly. :rolleyes:

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This is kinda random.. But I've been looking at pictures of other light rail systems in the US, and they alll look so modern and 'big city-ish," then I look at the simulation of The Tide and see those ugly, colonial style, bus stop look alike, wooden station platforms and I just hope they have changed their mind and will go with the new modern style platforms and extend them to accomidate two car trains. The reason I think they might be going with the modern, aesthetically appealing station is because the simulation video used the wrong trains, but if you look at the picture on pilotonline's website, they use the correct trains and the stations look like the one in Charlotte and Houston.

cha-lrt-crowd-at-stn-20071200br_car.jpg

metrorail6.jpg

lightraildoubletruckrl3.jpg

See what I mean about the difference in stations? The smaller picture on the right has that ugly wooden style. While the bigger picture looks amazing.

Can you guys believe that will be Norfolk is a year?

Edited by varider
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I like the modern version.

I'm telling you guys, we need a parking deck at Newtwn Rd. Station.

Charlotte has 1120 spaces and it fills up every day by 8:00AM. Our 300 spaces aren't going to cut it. In case you don't know, more people ride public transportation in HR, then in Charlotte. Even though Charlotte is more populated

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I'm telling you guys, we need a parking deck at Newtwn Rd. Station.

Charlotte has 1120 spaces and it fills up every day by 8:00AM. Our 300 spaces aren't going to cut it. In case you don't know, more people ride public transportation in HR, then in Charlotte. Even though Charlotte is more populated

Maybe HRT will have a bus to shuttle us from another parking lot to the parking lot with the station for the train that will shuttle us to downtown. :wacko:

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I can see the Newtown station area getting re-developed with mid-density buildings. With it's access to downtown, private investment will increase. I hope that the city draws up a vision plan for that area!

I think that a parking structure of some type with access to light rail and bus routes is essential for the success of the temporary east end of the rail line! :thumbsup:

But the city should not be too quick to build a big garage...... especially if VB extends the line!

Edited by lil-bear
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^^ I agree.

If all goes well, we won't need to drive and park to ride the trains.. But for the next 4 or 5 years, thats' where the majority of the ridership will come from, park and riders. If HRT or the city built a parking deck now (maybe 750 spaces), that would open up the other part of the surface lot for private investment and would ensure there is enough parking for everyone.. You don't think more then 300 people are going to park and ride from Newtown to downtown to avoid that horrible downtown traffic in the evenings? TCC students, Businessmen and women, Anybody going to MacArthur. Tides & Admirals fans? You could have 300 ride from Newtown to MacArthur station alone! Wouldn't it be bad if people didn't ride because parking wasn't convenient, and the parking lot was overcrowded. Don't underestimate ridership on The Tide! 4 years agoo Charlotteans thought their rail would fail miserably, now look at it! 200% over initial estimates. What makes you think Norfolk will be different? We probably have more on our transit line then they do. They have a NBA arena, some residential neighborhoods, then uptown stations. We have a college, baseball stadium, hockey arena, downtown, major shopping and resiential station (military hwy.), residential neighborhoods (ingelside, ballentine), college foootball stadium,city hall station, hospital! I expect ridership to be pretty high believe it or not.

Edited by cityboi757
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^^ Both!

A Few problems. First of all there is a big chunk of land owned by a couple of churches. Secondly is the Excalibur Gymnastics, which I believe purposefully located to their current location to prevent a light rail station back in 1999. I do agree that the area there needs to be redeveloped, just that it will take a lot of work (but lets just limit it to the business and apartment areas, I live in Arrowhead)

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Park and ride adds so much time to the daily commute.

I had suggested a water fall type thing (long one) at the station at MacArthur. Basically water cascading down on both sides of the train (not touching it). And some other artsy ideas. Didn't get a reply.

My thought is perhaps the EVMS students will be the riders. Those that come from wealthy families can get parents to pay for expensive apartment and ride train to school.

That and drunk party people, which the city doesn't really like judging by waterside action.

Sure is making a mess of the city. I still think elevated monorail would have been ideal, this thing is redeployment of crap that was removed before.

And while I'm not saying a piss puddle ruins all mass transit, I'm saying that's the class of people that ride it.

This is Hampton Roads. You're not going to make it New York City by adding a train. Sorry. :-)

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Park and ride adds so much time to the daily commute.

I had suggested a water fall type thing (long one) at the station at MacArthur. Basically water cascading down on both sides of the train (not touching it). And some other artsy ideas. Didn't get a reply.

My thought is perhaps the EVMS students will be the riders. Those that come from wealthy families can get parents to pay for expensive apartment and ride train to school.

That and drunk party people, which the city doesn't really like judging by waterside action.

Sure is making a mess of the city. I still think elevated monorail would have been ideal, this thing is redeployment of crap that was removed before.

And while I'm not saying a piss puddle ruins all mass transit, I'm saying that's the class of people that ride it.

This is Hampton Roads. You're not going to make it New York City by adding a train. Sorry. :-)

Who said anything about New York City? The truth is none of us know how well light rail will do. But I use Charlotte as a benchmark. Go ask the Charlotte guys about the things people thought would happen with their light rail system.The mayor was constantly bashed over spending money on a train nobody would ride. Opening day 40,000+ ride. Now average weekday boardings are pushing 20,000. The pre construction estimate was 7100. Ours is 6,000- 12,000. Why do you guys think nobody is going to ride.

Really. A couple weeks ago I had two doctors appointments in VaBeach.. I asked my mother to take me downtown in between the two so I could get some pizza and fries from Granby. It was about 4 P.M... As soon as I get the pizza, I notice a continuous flow of cars coming out of Dominion Enterprises (I thought that was kinda cool), look down City Hall Ave. it's gridlock, go down Granby it's gridlock, Brambleton it's gridlock. Bottomline, downtown traffic is horrible and it's impossible to get out of that place on any weekday, after any admirals game or festival at the waterfront, please don't let the Berkley Bridge go up. Needless to say, I missed my appointment.. I can't imagine going through that on a daily basis..

Say what you want Tel, no this isn't New York, and the majority of the current public transit riders are those too young or old to drive or they can't afford a car, but there is that small group of riders that simply don't want to drive and fight through traffic on a daily basis. I took many a trip on HRT busses when I was too young to drive, everybody is nice, funny, nonviolent. You see tourists, businessmen, other teenagers. It's not just a bus full of broke people lol. The #20 (runs along Virginia Beach Blvd. from the Oceanfront to Downtown) is consistently packed to capacity with standing room only, sometimes having to leave people at the stops (I've seen it).

But the real reason for this long rant is, think about how many potential riders are along the transit line..

Anybody who works downtown but lives in Virginia Beach or Norfolk who doesn't want to sit in 264 traffic or maneuver downtown streets. Also people who don't want to continue to pay their monthly parking garage dues. They can park at Newtown and have a relaxing 15 minute ride to work. Anybody who lives in the residential neighborhoods around Newtown. Anybody who lives or works at Military Hwy., Janaf, Military Circle, and surrounding neighborhoods. Anybody who goes to N.S.U (freshman can't drive and need a way to get around), anybody going to Dick Price Stadium, Anybody who lives in Ingleside, anybody who's going to a Tides game and doesn't want to sit in traffic and pay $5 parking. Anybody who works at City Hall or has business there or a court date or whatever. Anybody who needs to go to medical center for any reason, or people who go to EVMS or work at the hospital. Students at TCC downtown. Freemason residents. Anybody who doesn't want to pay to park downtown to see the admirals or go to mac center. The list goes on and on

Now I know all of these were obvious lol, but It seems like some of you don't want our system to be successful and are wishing death upon it. I think there's a good chance that we at least meet ridership estimates, and maybe even exceed, just like Charlotte did. Excusez mon rant.

Edited by varider
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Park and ride adds so much time to the daily commute. But not as much as gridlock. Sooner or later, I-264 will be so over-capacity that it will be faster to take light-rail, even with the added time for park and ride.

Sure is making a mess of the city. Actually, the construction is not as disruptive as I thought it would be when they first started talking about all of the utility relocation and construction that would be required. And five years from now, when the trains are up and running and people are moving instead of sitting in traffic, the pain of construction will be long forgotten. I still think elevated monorail would have been ideal, this thing is redeployment of crap that was removed before. I agree. When I first started driving, a Jaguar would have been ideal. But I had to settle for a Ford Pinto. If I had waited until I could get a Jag, I'd still be walking. If Norfolk waits until they could afford an elevated monorail, they will never have any rail transit.

And while I'm not saying a piss puddle ruins all mass transit, I'm saying that's the class of people that ride it. And your friend that took that bus to the mall - how does he feel about you describing him as being in that class of people? Your statement is a gross over-generalization. All types of people ride mass transit. And all mass transit is not the same. Studies in numerous cities with light rail have shown that business people who would never ride a bus are willing to ride the train.

This is Hampton Roads. You're not going to make it New York City by adding a train. Sorry. :-) No, but you will make it a better Hampton Roads when you add a train.

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^^ Agreed.

HRT is running two car trains during peak hours, right? All the simulations seem to only have single car trains running.. Once again, that's not going to work, especially during special event service like a Tides game. I surely hope the platforms are being built for 2 car trains. Otherwise the stations will be too crowded and will make riding not so appealing.

Nevermind I found it.

The Tide will operate a two car train that runs on tracks in city streets and on dedicated right-of-way.
Edited by cityboi757
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These are the stations I like.

7-7_typical_station_platform_images.jpg

This is from the original EIS in '06, so I don't know if it's still valid, but it reads:

Initially, the platforms will be 90 feet in length to accommodate a single light rail vehicle. The stations have been designed with space reserved to extend the platforms to 270 feet to accommodate three-car trains.

Like cityboi said, one car trains ain't gonna cut it. They only have 68 seats.. I've been on HRT busses with over 100 people on them.

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These are the stations I like.

7-7_typical_station_platform_images.jpg

This is from the original EIS in '06, so I don't know if it's still valid, but it reads:

Like cityboi said, one car trains ain't gonna cut it. They only have 68 seats.. I've been on HRT busses with over 100 people on them.

They accomplish the overflow by running the trains closer together. The trains will be single trains at first, seeing that we are only ordering 9 trains from the get go and all the trains are never out on the track because inevitibaly you have maintenance on one or two.

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If they only run single trains at first, I hope everybody's ready to stand lol. That's going to be very overcrowded during rush hour and special event service.

I know we ordered nine, but I was thinking they could easily run 2 double car trains going east and 2 going west, leaving one in the maintenence facility.

But anyways... From August 27.

Our trains have been completed and are on the test track in Sacramento! :w00t:

HRT has entered into a contract with STS incorporating the terms of the CATS contract. Delivery of the first vehicle is currently scheduled for September of 2009, with delivery of all vehicles completed in December 2009.

HRT is preparing for the first vehicle delivery in the fall. A delivery and storage procedure is being prepared.

Our trains are absolutely beautiful. Omg.

http://vbwave.org/pdf/presidentreport/pres...august-2009.pdf

Edited by varider
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