Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[jbhay]

I'm moving to Alexandria in January and will be taking the metro from King St. to Medical Center for work. It's a fairly long haul, but DUH, not sitting in the Beltway every day to and from - that would be a nightmare and pretty stupid imo. I've been to DC basically every weekend for about 2 months now and have gotten to know the city and their lines much more than before. I'm looking forward to the only form of city life I can get right now.

Also someone earlier posted about light rail on the outside part of roads and having cars in the middle? This past weekend I was driving down Benning Road towards NE DC and they are building tracks on the outside of the lanes. Looks like some streetcar action for that road

Edited October 15, 2009 by jbhay

[Telmnstr]

I'm sure the big jobs like Norfolk Southern, BoA, SunTrust, etc. cover the parking, but what about the thousands of people that work at MacArthur, small businesses, tourist attractions, TCC, etc. I'm sure they still must pay.

I have a cousin who lives in Arlington and he takes Metro into the district every day. So people are different.

It probably depends on the pecking order. Anyone who has been at BofA or NS or any bank for any amount of time are likely to own a nice house or McMansion. It's the younger lower end employees who would be more likely to ride things like the mass transit. Of course with the older folks being greedy, if all of the housing along the thing is nosebleed prices then that is going to work against it. I hate to say it, but there is more likelyhood of the lower income and hip people riding it. Sure in cities like DC mass transit works. But this isn't Manhattan. People don't come to Tidewater expecting to pay $600,000 for a studio near a rail stop, and they shouldn't. We don't have the jobs.

The company I worked at before downtown most people there had houses. $300K - $400K was normal, with $1 mil probably being the top. There might have been 1 person out of 20 that could make use of it.

Where I'm at now back when we had 30 people I think maybe 3 could use it total (and that is including me).

Obviously as it is expanded the usability would increase. Going down Hampton Blvd to Ghent, ODU and the base (perhaps along with the VB line) should be their top priority.

I'd still rather live away from the thing. If I wanted to live in a big city I'd go to a real city with real jobs. Ya know?

The whole light rail thing is a nice dream. I wish they just had done something new and good instead of putting in a cruddy old train. Maglev would have been fun. This thing they bought is meh.

Don't forget a chunk of people need their car at work. Need to go to appointments with clients, etc.

For me, there have been times where all of a sudden I need to go out to a data center, so I end up walking home to get to my car then drive. If it was a long rail commute that wouldn't work.

[brikkman]

I honestly do not see what the fuss is about. The money was for just that. Now you can argue with how and why the feds allocated it as such, but you can't blame Norfolk for running a bid to get the money for the train. So what if it is a flop, who cares? Put it in the box like they do every other crap thing that is done wrong by the feds and local government and call it a day. The very tax money you pay goes to wasted crap daily, I do not see them flipping a bone at that anymore, so eventually you wont with this either. I think the government has a right to operate and mange money efficiently for the people it serves. This is a public service that all social classes can get behind; it is not just some gloried private project people feel is a waste of money. I refuse to have those types of conversations when the mere fact is that these same nay-sayers say nothing about the daily rape and the rape of the people

[varider]

I was checking out the end of the line Newtown Station today and have a couple problems...

First of all, as soon as I passed the station platform, I made a U-turn at the at- grade embedded crossing and find 8-10 guys on the corner with a huge black rifle acting like they were soldiers protecting their hood..

Secondly, the Newtown area is so congested and the roads are so crowded that it's difficult to even get to the station.

Third, there's absolutely nothing to do within comfortable walking distance other than a convenient store and a denny's/ ruby tuesday..

Last, looking to the east down the abandoned ROW & VaBeach was kind of depressing, would be so much better if it went there

Oh, and 264 was gridlocked at 2 in the afternoon. Wow. Come on LR

[virginia pe]

I was checking out the end of the line Newtown Station today and have a couple problems...

Third, there's absolutely nothing to do within comfortable walking distance other than a convenient store and a denny's/ ruby tuesday..

Originally, Norfolk planned to have the LR turn north at Newtown and follow Kempsville Road under I-264. From there, it could service Sentara Leigh Hospital, which is one of the largest employers in that part of the city, and the nearby office park. But the only suitable place for a station was in front of James Barry Robinson Center, which is a home for troubled youths (it may not be juvenile detention, but it is close to it). The JBR folks objected to having a lightrail station in their front yard - if any of the kids wandered off, they could be miles from the center in a matter of minutes. So Norfolk decided to put the Newtown station at the South Newtown Road location. I'm sure there will be a shuttle bus to move people from Sentara to the light-rail statoin.

[varider]

Originally, Norfolk planned to have the LR turn north at Newtown and follow Kempsville Road under I-264. From there, it could service Sentara Leigh Hospital, which is one of the largest employers in that part of the city, and the nearby office park. But the only suitable place for a station was in front of James Barry Robinson Center, which is a home for troubled youths (it may not be juvenile detention, but it is close to it). The JBR folks objected to having a lightrail station in their front yard - if any of the kids wandered off, they could be miles from the center in a matter of minutes. So Norfolk decided to put the Newtown station at the South Newtown Road location. I'm sure there will be a shuttle bus to move people from Sentara to the light-rail statoin.

It's just in a akward position right now. Traffic is at a stand-still on Newtown Road and the Boulevard at rush hour. Plus the on-ramp to 264 is kind of jacked.. It's not that easy a station to get to. I just can't wait for them to extend this thing already because right now it doesn't go anywhere. For light rail in Hampton Roads to work, it must hit every critical employment/ residential center in the region. TC, Hilltop, the Oceanfront, ODU,NOB, Ocean View, NewportNews, Williamsburg, Hampton Colliseum, downtown Suffolk, Greenbrier, North Carolina.. Everywhere. We need to utilize park and rides (stop being cheap and build a parking deck at Newtown ASAP), it must travel frequent, and fast as possible.

But anyway.. about Norfolk's initial starter line.. To ensure this thing doesn't fail miserably, HRT and the City of Norfolk need to market the system like a brand new iPhone or any other popular product. Mailers to every household in Norfolk and Virginia Beach, commercials on the local news stations, ads + pamphlets in all downtown stores and restaurants (i've seen a couple in Subway + Granby St. Pizza), etc. Make sure the public knows that the system will be safe (security, cameras, police, well lit). People won't ride if they are scared. I just hope they don't think they can open the system with little advertisement and get 12,000 riders per day.

[ronsmytheiii]

It's just in a akward position right now. Traffic is at a stand-still on Newtown Road and the Boulevard at rush hour. Plus the on-ramp to 264 is kind of jacked.. It's not that easy a station to get to. I just can't wait for them to extend this thing already because right now it doesn't go anywhere. For light rail in Hampton Roads to work, it must hit every critical employment/ residential center in the region. TC, Hilltop, the Oceanfront, ODU,NOB, Ocean View, NewportNews, Williamsburg, Hampton Colliseum, downtown Suffolk, Greenbrier, North Carolina.. Everywhere. We need to utilize park and rides (stop being cheap and build a parking deck at Newtown ASAP), it must travel frequent, and fast as possible.

Well Consider that the park and ride lot is at the beginning of Princess Anne Road for Virginia Beach. If I-264 is too backed up, then suddenly Princess Anne and the park and ride become a great alternative route. YEs it clearly is not the most desired situation right now, but we have to start somewhere. The entire Newtown area requires cooperation of Virginia Beach and Norfolk for the future as it is so integrated, yet I have not seen too much formal work together.

Anyhow, one of the benefits of light rail station at Newtown are the amount of lower cost apartments in the area. Tel likes to complain about prices in the Downtown Norfolk area, well I can tell you that there are plenty of low cost apartments and town houses right at the end of the line (live in the Arrowheaad area) which with light rail connecting to the down town CBD should offer real competition and hopefully start to lower rental rates.

[varider]

Yeah, good point ronsmytheii.

I think I'll ride whenever I go to TC (which happens to be a lot). LR to Newtown, #20 to TC.

The news (Wavy?) did a story on the effect of LR on the Ingleside neighborhood, and a couple people up theree said they actually moved to the neighborhood to ride the trains to work.. So I think the low cost neighborhoods might actually contain many LR users.

[Telmnstr]

Well Consider that the park and ride lot is at the beginning of Princess Anne Road for Virginia Beach. If I-264 is too backed up, then suddenly Princess Anne and the park and ride become a great alternative route. YEs it clearly is not the most desired situation right now, but we have to start somewhere. The entire Newtown area requires cooperation of Virginia Beach and Norfolk for the future as it is so integrated, yet I have not seen too much formal work together.

Anyhow, one of the benefits of light rail station at Newtown are the amount of lower cost apartments in the area. Tel likes to complain about prices in the Downtown Norfolk area, well I can tell you that there are plenty of low cost apartments and town houses right at the end of the line (live in the Arrowheaad area) which with light rail connecting to the down town CBD should offer real competition and hopefully start to lower rental rates.

Unless the owners of those apartments are licking their lips to jack up the rates :-)

In time, we'll see how Light Rail plays out. I'm sure it will benefit the low income folks.

[jbhay]

And the future of transportation in Hampton Roads.

[ronsmytheiii]

Unless the owners of those apartments are licking their lips to jack up the rates :-)

In time, we'll see how Light Rail plays out. I'm sure it will benefit the low income folks.

After driving by those apartments everyday, I can tell you no one would be willing to pay more for those apartments... Just pure nasty low end 1970's vintage.....

[varider]

I'm sure it will benefit the low income folks.

Is that all light rail is to you? A $288 million poor people mover?

[ronsmytheiii]

Adding to the Navy base extension debate, seems that HRT wants to go up I-264 and through Ghent:

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/02/hampton-ro...n-plan-unveiled

[varider]

You mean I-64, right?

[urbanfan]

Adding to the Navy base extension debate, seems that HRT wants to go up I-264 and through Ghent:

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/02/hampton-ro...n-plan-unveiled

Yes, the extension of the end of line up to the navy base is still part of the plan, just not the immediate extension. The first extension outside of virginia beach will be past the airport.

[varider]

Do you guys think the Transit Vision Plan is going to be implemented in the elaborate form that it's been proposed?

I mean they are talking about 820,000 people within walking distance of higher speed transit. Is it possible? We would have one of the best transit systems in the south.

[New Name]

Do you guys think the Transit Vision Plan is going to be implemented in the elaborate form that it's been proposed?

I mean they are talking about 820,000 people within walking distance of higher speed transit. Is it possible? We would have one of the best transit systems in the south.

You guys are in the fun part of the mass transit discussion - the planning!

I don't know if you will ever see the build-out of the entire system - maybe when you're old and gray. Maybe sooner.

I've been staring at Charlotte's system maps for years now (salivating) and I know now that the next line probably won't get built for another 10 years. And that would just be the SECOND line of 5. But, then again, hopefully the political climate will be more mild for mass transit for the next 25 years, and a 5 year design/construction project could be done in 2... I dunno.

[varider]

You guys are in the fun part of the mass transit discussion - the planning!

I don't know if you will ever see the build-out of the entire system - maybe when you're old and gray. Maybe sooner.

I've been staring at Charlotte's system maps for years now (salivating) and I know now that the next line probably won't get built for another 10 years. And that would just be the SECOND line of 5. But, then again, hopefully the political climate will be more mild for mass transit for the next 25 years, and a 5 year design/construction project could be done in 2... I dunno.

Yeah it's fun, but being able to ride the train around the entire metro would be more fun.

But may I ask, why do you think it will take 10 years for the Charlotte extension? According to CATS website, the extension should be completed by 2016.

I'm hoping our Virginia Beach extension is done by 2013-2014.

Oh, and I wont be old and gray for at least 55-60 years So hopefully I'll live to see our light rail system reach 100,000 riders a day.

Edited October 21, 2009 by varider

[jeffconn]

Do you guys think the Transit Vision Plan is going to be implemented in the elaborate form that it's been proposed?

I mean they are talking about 820,000 people within walking distance of higher speed transit. Is it possible? We would have one of the best transit systems in the south.

I doubt it will be implemented in its full glory, but I really wish the ferry from Norfolk to Hampton would have been around on 4th of July weekend.

There has also been some talk lately out of Edenton about a passenger train to Norfolk via Elizabeth City and Chesapeake. That might be doable; apparently the tracks are rarely used and are in good shape.

[Telmnstr]

Is that all light rail is to you? A $288 million poor people mover?

Realistically......

[varider]

Just counted seven light rail vehicles next to Norfolk State

And the Overhead Catenary (sp.) poles have been erected from Broad Creek to NSU

Edited October 24, 2009 by varider

[New Name]

But may I ask, why do you think it will take 10 years for the Charlotte extension? According to CATS website, the extension should be completed by 2016.

I'm hoping our Virginia Beach extension is done by 2013-2014.

A candid opinion from anyone in CATS would suggest that the lack of $ in the sales-tax-funded-coffers would suggest the NE Extension getting pushed out 3 years to 2019. I hope things get better with the economy and that doesn't happen, but I don't want to hold my breath either.

Is The Tide funded in the same way The LYNX is? If so, I'd assume you may be in the same boat (or train, hah!)

[varider]

A candid opinion from anyone in CATS would suggest that the lack of $ in the sales-tax-funded-coffers would suggest the NE Extension getting pushed out 3 years to 2019. I hope things get better with the economy and that doesn't happen, but I don't want to hold my breath either.

Is The Tide funded in the same way The LYNX is? If so, I'd assume you may be in the same boat (or train, hah!)

No sales tax for transit up here. The City pays a small portion, the state pays a slightly larger portion, and through New Starts the feds pay the largest portion.

So once the EIS/AA is complete for the extension to Virginia Beach, we will just have to hustle New Starts for the $$. So the completion year of our 2nd extension will be determined by the flow of $$ from the feds.

[ronsmytheiii]

No sales tax for transit up here. The City pays a small portion, the state pays a slightly larger portion, and through New Starts the feds pay the largest portion.

So once the EIS/AA is complete for the extension to Virginia Beach, we will just have to hustle New Starts for the $. So the completion year of our 2nd extension will be determined by the flow of $ from the feds.

Just a minor nitpicking, the VB line would be the first extension for the tide, unless the navy base extension is built first.

[varider]

Just a minor nitpicking, the VB line would be the first extension for the tide, unless the navy base extension is built first.

Yeah, my fault! I didn't mean to say extension. Do you think when they extend LRT to the Naval Station they will start to color code the different lines?

I was looking at the old EIS from 1999. It's kind of sad to think that we could have already had LR from downtown to the oceanfront and we probably would be bulding a spur to the naval station by now. But I'm glad we have the new Siemens LRV's and the alignment is a little better now.

& I'm predicting that HRT will have to order a couple more vehicles and extend station platforms before the first year of service is over. I don't think 9 LRV's and one station platforms are going to cut it(Think about after Tides + Admirals games, Harborfest, AFRAM, etc.). But we can always do it like this..

Edited October 25, 2009 by varider