Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[Telmnstr]

I think population is likely to decrease in the area. It's expensive to live here given the job opportunities. The better paying jobs are mostly a result of the gov't spending tax dollars like crazy. Not always the case, but even the local reports show this.

With regards to comments about light rail to Greenbriar and the like. If you had a train station in Greenbriar, it could take you like 40 minutes to walk from a single store in a strip mall over to the train station. You'd need another light rail system just to get around the place. Imagine going to music and arts, after seeing the poor selection of product there walking over to say Best Buy. Then the mall. It'd be tough.

We'll see how many people ride it. I don't have high expectations, but can see where it's something that gets more popular over time.

[jbhay]

What would it cost to do the entire metro and when will it recoupe?

would regionalization make funding easier for hampton roads as a whole, so that visions like mass transit may be achieved quicker? this may need to be seriously looked at more and more. i know we've all talked it to death on here from time to time.

i'm partly with ronsmythe on chesapeake having too much low density, yes Greenbrier is its stronghold, and yes it would be amazing to have a fixed mass transit line running all through the area, like its own unique system even, we all have great dreams of this sort of stuff from time to time. however, i'm also partly with varider in that i want to see mass transit everywhere. the city is so young and it can start the ball rolling now, or like virginia_pe said, wait like VA beach when it will be much more difficult (even tho va beach deserves more mass transit options than cpeake asap)

i dont know where the landscape of chesapeake is headed, but every time i come home, there is another patch of forest being cut down to make way for some stupid suburban development that ultimately adds to the problem.

greenbrier will not be so green in the years to come and the voting comment from city councilwoman debbie ritter make it that much more obvious

[ronsmytheiii]

Chesapeake City Council will vote Tuesday night on studying the possibility of bringing The Tide to that city. The agenda item says council will discuss non-local funding options for the study of the extension of light rail transit service.

Al Shriner with the Chesapeake Taxpayer Alliance says he'll urge council to pull support for the study.

"I just don't think we have the density here. I don't think Chesapeake is built in a way that it's going to work financially," he said.

Councilman Cliff Hayes doesn't believe the city shouldn't back out now.

"It will be a couple of years away before we even get to that place. Today, what we'd like to do is to keep the door open for further study," he said.

greenbrier will not be so green in the years to come and the voting comment from city councilwoman debbie ritter make it that much more obvious

Chesapeake's Taxpayer Alliance sounds so much more logical and cool headed than Virginia Beaches Taxpayer Alliance.

http://www.wvec.com/news/Light-rail-may-spread-beyond-Norfolk-85032642.html

[ronsmytheiii]

Here is a screenshot of the possible routes, if anyone has a better one please post:

Personally, of the Two I like the first route as it could eventually link to Portsmouth across the railroad bridge

Edited February 23, 2010 by ronsmytheiii

[757hokie]

Here is a screenshot of the possible routes, if anyone has a better one please post:

Personally, of the Two I like the first route as it could eventually link to Portsmouth across the railroad bridge

Route 1 makes more sense considering the demographics and the types of development there. Also, with Light Rail in close proximity to Battlefield, it helps implement the plan to turn the battlefield corridor bound by 168 on both sides into a new urbanist space. Greenbrier is completely suburban, and there is no plan for it to be anything else, and a LR terminus just doesn't make sense there.

[urbanlife]

Route 1 makes more sense considering the demographics and the types of development there. Also, with Light Rail in close proximity to Battlefield, it helps implement the plan to turn the battlefield corridor bound by 168 on both sides into a new urbanist space. Greenbrier is completely suburban, and there is no plan for it to be anything else, and a LR terminus just doesn't make sense there.

It would actually make more sense to built the route 1 to Battlefield, then at a later date, possibly build an offshoot from Route 1 to Greenbrier and have there be two different train colors using route 1, which would also increase service through South Norfolk and could potentially lead to that area rebuilding itself.

Of course I strongly believe the South Norfolk area should be more of the focus for Chesapeake's downtown and urban development, with additional urban developments down in Battlefield.

[ronsmytheiii]

Any study of the feasibility of bringing light rail to Chesapeake will be delayed by at least a year. City Council members voted unanimously Tuesday to delay discussion of the study for that time period. In November, a unanimous vote put Chesapeake on the road to okaying the study. "When we first introduced the idea," explains Council Member Rick West, "it was not local matching funds, and, you know, once you throw that into the formula, we have to find another way to do it. We just can't expect our local taxpayers when we're tightening the belt to spend money on a study."

West and Council Member Cliff Hayes, Jr., serve as liaisons between the council and Hampton Roads Transit.

"It's a good opportunity for us to just kind of step back from this process, take a really good look at it, while HRT's staff works with our staff here to strategically talk about financing alternatives to the local match," Hayes says.

http://www.wvec.com/news/Council-decides-no-rush-to-hop-on-light-rail-service.html

[brikkman]

You mean, the people we employ that handles our traffic issues are not advised enough to do their own study? And does anyone have any background on how these studys are conducted to justify the cost?

[Sky06]

On a side note, reading the comments section on any LR story on pilotonline literally makes me dumber. Do the masses in Hampton Roads get out much?

I've said it a thousand times. People here are among the most uninformed individuals west of Baghdad. IMO, the blame rests with the Virginian Pilot. They make no effort at all to clarify things or give readers the full facts. They're more interested in stirring up controversy. I believe as long as they get a hundred posts on line, even if the comments are stupid and irrelevant, they feel they're valid.

[Sky06]

I question if light rail will even work here. I WANT IT TO WORK but, people here LOVE there cars.

People love their cars in DC too. Just look at the roads. But that doesn't mean that people here, as they have in DC, will begin to see the value, the convenience, the hassel-freeness of public transportation. No driving around looking for a spot. No exorbitant parking fees. No worrying about being towed. No other drivers pinging your car. No worries about the drive home.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Sky06

[Sky06]

The saddest result of this mismanagement and resulting negative publicity will be to make it politically untenable for other cities to join or (like Chesapeake) even investigate joining the light rail. We could be stuck with a starter line for the next decade, but I seriously hope not.

Cities like Chesapeake and VB need to blame themselves, not Norfolk. Why? They're afraid of change. They're afraid of angering a few narrow-minded people. They're indecisive. They'd rather waste money on studies because it makes them look like they're doing something without really making a decision or committing to something. They look for excuses, something to justify their inability to move forward or make tough decisions. Look at VB. They're so afraid someone will threaten to vote them out of office that they can't see the future. Everyone wants to build more roads instead. I GOT NEWS FOR SUCH PEOPLE. HAMPTON ROADS DOES NOT NOW, NEVER HAS, AND NEVER WILL GET IT'S FAIR SHARE OF TRANSPORTATION FUNDS. Thank goodness Norfolk had the foresight to see that the Federal government was willing to hand them $$$ for this project.

[Glassoul]

I've said it a thousand times. People here are among the most uninformed individuals west of Baghdad. IMO, the blame rests with the Virginian Pilot. They make no effort at all to clarify things or give readers the full facts. They're more interested in stirring up controversy. I believe as long as they get a hundred posts on line, even if the comments are stupid and irrelevant, they feel they're valid.

Clearly, you've never read the comments on Youtube.

[vdogg]

They make no effort at all to clarify things or give readers the full facts. They're more interested in stirring up controversy.

And as if to underscore your point, here is another doom and gloom light rail article.

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/02/va-pitches-75-million-plan-train-richmond

Since the state is broke, in the mean time before we get HSR.. we may have conventional rail into Norfolk within three years.

[Telmnstr]

Norfolk 2030:

[rusthebuss]

Lmao...dude that is funny

[andyfried]

Norfolk 2030:

What are you trying to say Tel ?I think it's pretty obvious.

[ronsmytheiii]

What are you trying to say Tel ?I think it's pretty obvious.

LRT ridership will exceed expectations, and we will need much more trains to satisfy demand....

[varider]

LRT ridership will exceed expectations, and we will need much more trains to satisfy demand....

This looks much more like Norfolk 2030 IMO

[varider]

MacArthur Center Station.. Much progress has been made in the last weeks.

^^ The old Quality Shop building would be great for some sort of cafe/coffeeshop type place. It'd be very convenient for workers heading from the rail station to the financial district.

[urbanlife]

Great photos, just a few notes. The red concrete for the tracks really throws me off because I dont think I have seen any other city do that color for their tracks before...nothing wrong with it, it just looks weird to me. I would say the building to the right of the Quality Shop building is in serious need of a renovation and to be broken up into a few store fronts and the corner unit to that building would definitely make a perfect coffee shop (which if the postal service is still in that building, they seriously need to move to a location better suited for them because that building looks like such a waste in its current state.) Also, Norfolk really needs to do some renovating to just about all of its open space throughout downtown, they each look so horrible and dated, though it would help if there was some redevelopment happening with many of the parking garages in the city, the ones along Plume remind me why Plume always felt so dead.

Anyway, great shots and it is good seeing all this new construction and infrastructure work going on in Norfolk. Hopefully in the next boom we can see some new buildings going up and possibly the beginning stages of the SPQ.

[ronsmytheiii]

something eventually needs to be done about the parking garages of Plume street, they kind of kill the streetscape

Edit: also, is that a pile driver at the Kirn site? Has it just finished up, or might it be working on something else?

Edited February 28, 2010 by ronsmytheiii

[varider]

Great photos, just a few notes. The red concrete for the tracks really throws me off because I dont think I have seen any other city do that color for their tracks before...nothing wrong with it, it just looks weird to me. I would say the building to the right of the Quality Shop building is in serious need of a renovation and to be broken up into a few store fronts and the corner unit to that building would definitely make a perfect coffee shop (which if the postal service is still in that building, they seriously need to move to a location better suited for them because that building looks like such a waste in its current state.) Also, Norfolk really needs to do some renovating to just about all of its open space throughout downtown, they each look so horrible and dated, though it would help if there was some redevelopment happening with many of the parking garages in the city, the ones along Plume remind me why Plume always felt so dead.

Anyway, great shots and it is good seeing all this new construction and infrastructure work going on in Norfolk. Hopefully in the next boom we can see some new buildings going up and possibly the beginning stages of the SPQ.

At first I didn't like the red concrete that is supposed to "simulate brick,"but it has grown on me and it looks really nice in contrast to it's surroundings in our downtown. Plus it helps alert the idiots that there are rail tracks there.

something eventually needs to be done about the parking garages of Plume street, they kind of kill the streetscape

Edit: also, is that a pile driver at the Kirn site? Has it just finished up, or might it be working on something else?

I agree, the city should start planning for a major redevelopment of standalone parking decks on Plume Street. I believe that Plume is not as dense as it needs to be and technically it is in the "financial district.." I think part of Downtown 2020 should focus on tearing down the brown-ish 4 floor parking deck with the massive footprint, the taller, white parkng deck, and the postal servce building... Within the next couple years, DT will be in need of more office space. Put up a couple 15-18 floor office towers with 4 or 5 floors of parking [LRT], ground floor retail, nice and wide sidewalks.. And then when Harbor Heights becomes more occupied.. maybe 80%.. and WF apartments, and the Belmot is absorebed.. a 20 floor condo/apartment/ parking tower can go on that huge, empty surface lot on the corner of St. Paul's... Basically, replace street-scape killing, non taxed, dead parking space with working and living space. Increase the vibrancy and density of our DT. Just like they did with the Monticello Ave garage. Now it's an office tower, apartment building, retail, and parking space. MIXED USE is the key.

[urbanlife]

something eventually needs to be done about the parking garages of Plume street, they kind of kill the streetscape

Edit: also, is that a pile driver at the Kirn site? Has it just finished up, or might it be working on something else?

Not sure if that is a pile drive, hard to tell from the picture...though if it is, I would me more confused with why they would need one. I know the land in downtown Norfolk is basically mud, but I didnt think the Kirn site was getting anything bigger than a one story train station structure.

At first I didn't like the red concrete that is supposed to "simulate brick,"but it has grown on me and it looks really nice in contrast to it's surroundings in our downtown. Plus it helps alert the idiots that there are rail tracks there.

Oh I am sure it does, things like that you get use to and often times it is a nice way of being unique with a system...it just looks weird to me because I am not use to it. Though it simulating bricks, meh, but I can see the reasoning that went into that....as for alerting idiots, one would need to do more than just red concrete, it is impossible keeping idiots from driving in the bike lanes here in Portland because people cant pay attention to the paint on the roads. Hopefully the train horn will scare the crap out of a few dumb people...I seriously cant wait to see shots of the train running up and down those streets.

I agree, the city should start planning for a major redevelopment of standalone parking decks on Plume Street. I believe that Plume is not as dense as it needs to be and technically it is in the "financial district.." I think part of Downtown 2020 should focus on tearing down the brown-ish 4 floor parking deck with the massive footprint, the taller, white parkng deck, and the postal servce building... Within the next couple years, DT will be in need of more office space. Put up a couple 15-18 floor office towers with 4 or 5 floors of parking [LRT], ground floor retail, nice and wide sidewalks.. And then when Harbor Heights becomes more occupied.. maybe 80%.. and WF apartments, and the Belmot is absorebed.. a 20 floor condo/apartment/ parking tower can go on that huge, empty surface lot on the corner of St. Paul's... Basically, replace street-scape killing, non taxed, dead parking space with working and living space. Increase the vibrancy and density of our DT. Just like they did with the Monticello Ave garage. Now it's an office tower, apartment building, retail, and parking space. MIXED USE is the key.

I partly agree with this, though I would say the postal service building (if we are talking about the same one (US Postal Building) should be preserved and renovated. It is easy to see where the new retail bays could go in this building and overall it would be an easy renovation. Sure it is only a single story building, but it is a small footprint building and that little collection of old buildings is worth preserving for the city.

This garage is a complete waste of space in the heart of the financial district (parking garage on Main St..) It would make sense to rebuild this site with the southern end of the block being a park or plaza of some sort, possibly even keeping some form of plaza that is currently on the east side of the block. Then having storefronts all along Main, Plume, and part of Bank St. Then using Bank St to service more as a service street for the building's functions and garage that could occupy the lower end of the building (more or less, it would be the same type of building as the new Well Fargo building.)

Two towers, a parking garage, and a drive thru bank that is currently there could fit on a block like this Plume St. garage.

Combine all of that together, Norfolk could handle 5 new towers to be built in between City Hall Blvd and Waterside. The Westin building, the redevelopment of the Main St garage, two towers at the Plume St garage, and the tower at City Hall and St Paul. Or another way to look at it, the city could have a massive redevelopment that would be a hotel, 2 residential buildings and two office buildings ranging between 200ft to 500ft. That is the kind of growth I would love to see in downtown Norfolk. Which none of this even include the massive amount of land that the Norfolk Public Schools building is occupying (which desperately needs to come down and the site needs to be fully redeveloped as a connection between downtown and the SPQ.

[brikkman]

At first I didn't like the red concrete that is supposed to "simulate brick,"but it has grown on me and it looks really nice in contrast to it's surroundings in our downtown. Plus it helps alert the idiots that there are rail tracks there.

I agree, the city should start planning for a major redevelopment of standalone parking decks on Plume Street. I believe that Plume is not as dense as it needs to be and technically it is in the "financial district.." I think part of Downtown 2020 should focus on tearing down the brown-ish 4 floor parking deck with the massive footprint, the taller, white parkng deck, and the postal servce building... Within the next couple years, DT will be in need of more office space. Put up a couple 15-18 floor office towers with 4 or 5 floors of parking [LRT], ground floor retail, nice and wide sidewalks.. And then when Harbor Heights becomes more occupied.. maybe 80%.. and WF apartments, and the Belmot is absorebed.. a 20 floor condo/apartment/ parking tower can go on that huge, empty surface lot on the corner of St. Paul's... Basically, replace street-scape killing, non taxed, dead parking space with working and living space. Increase the vibrancy and density of our DT. Just like they did with the Monticello Ave garage. Now it's an office tower, apartment building, retail, and parking space. MIXED USE is the key.

Got to love your enthusiasm, its refreshing.....