Will the Triangle ever get an amusement park or

[RaleighHeelsfan]

About the Casino's. I heard on the news that the casino in the western part of the state is trying to get tables. So it will not be all slot machines....hopefully

Also, the possible casino in the eastern part of the state would be in Wilson, so its more likely that it would help the economy more than the one in Cherokee could help that part of the state.

[closeminded]

Seriously, we have four state parks and lots of museums. We're fine without an amusement park for now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But that's so boring. Don't you get it.

[urbanesq]

The Cherokees already have a casino in NC off I-40.  While it has helped the local economy greatly it really hasn't done alot to change the overall economic situation in Western NC.  The problem is NC State law prevents the Tribes from running a real vegas style casino, so most of it is slot machines, and video poker and blackjack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but the Cherokee's site is actually fairly remote. Imagine if it was on I-95, a much more heavily traveled corridor.

[Tides]

Wow , I didn't think that this thread would get many responses . LOL

Even here in South Florida , we have NO local water or amusement parks , the closest is a water park over 70 miles from me. And I am pretty sure that our population could support a water or theme park .

As I said earlier , to each his own , but I think it would be cool to have a water or theme park nearby , some of us are big kids at heart !

Other than that , I would love to live in the Triangle . The Triangle is the shining star of North Carolina , in so many ways.... IMHO .

cheers ,

Tides

[MR-2]

But that's so boring. Don't you get it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, Umstead isn't anything special, but Eno River, Raven's Rock, and Cliffs of the Neuse are pretty good. Try visiting them some time.

I would like to have an amusement park in the Triangle somewhere, but we can't support one yet. Maybe a water park... that's a big maybe.

The thing is it would be a very suburban endeavour. There's no room anywhere near downtown Raleigh or Durham for a giant park, so it would get put somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and hundreds of new neighborhoods would immediately sprawl around it. Forgive me if I'm not enthusiastic about that.

[Damien]

the Dorthea Dix property would have been the perfect place for a downtown amusement park. That particular property is comparable in size to other amusement parks in the country.

[MR-2]

I was thinking the same thing. That IS a very good spot for one, but as we already know, that's not going to happen.

[urbanesq]

^^ Oh, man. I can hear the Open Space/Park Purists gathering in protest as I type...

[orulz]

I don't think that amusement parks (of the massive variety like Carowinds) belong so close to downtown. They carry way too much of baggage - traffic, huge parking lots, noise, and a complete lack of connectivity because the whole area is fenced off.

"Downtown" amusement parks do exist, mind you. There's one in Yokohama, for example. But it's on the waterfront, and it's compact - a giant ferris wheel, a roller coster or two, and that's pretty much it. Not a huge place where you would want to spend a whole day. Although an amusement park might physically fit in the Dorothea Dix parcel, it would not do anything to its surroundings other than encourage car-dependent development. This would absolutely not represent the highest-and-best use of the property. An amusement park at Dix is a non-starter; I say we put that idea to rest.

[willrusso]

...True enough, and, as I've said in previous posts, if the Lumbee gets tribal recognition, .......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Lumbees will never get recognition. They're not real LOL. I've seen some as black as me and some as fair as Queen Elizabeth. Last time I checked, true Native Americans never had quite THAT much variation. I'm sure they do have some Native ancestry, however, there's some other stuff mixed up in there somewhere.

[willrusso]

I've always thought it strange that the Triad was larger then the Triangle...I mean Raleigh is so much larger then Greensboro, Durham is larger then Winston Salem, I guess our weakness is Chapel Hill being smaller then High Point....but maybe our outlying counties are less populated then the Triad's....

Anyway shame on us the thread is digressing from it's intended purpose...

:-p

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget that Cary is the 3rd largest city in the Triangle with over 100,000 people. That's twice the population of Chapel Hill. It seems like our metro should be referred to as "Raleigh-Durham-Cary" instead of "Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill". I don't know, maybe it all stems from the whole 3 University research triangle thing. Oh well, I guess I'll stop my useless banter now LOL.

[urbanesq]

^^ there is an odd calculus that's used to determine whether a tribe is recognized that I do not purport to understand, but I read often that their lobbyists are hard at work. I suppose I would be too if there was the potential for the billions associated with an I-95 casino.

On that subject, and in the vein of amusement attractions, now that we have the lottery, shouldn't we give up the false facade that we're "agin" gambling and just open a casino on 95? Give a portion of the proceeds to education, and use the rest to invest in programs that reduce poverty.

[monsoon]

"Downtown" amusement parks do exist, mind you. There's one in Yokohama, for example. But it's on the waterfront, and it's compact - a giant ferris wheel, a roller coster or two, and that's pretty much it. Not a huge place where you would want to spend a whole day. Although an amusement park might physically fit in the Dorothea Dix parcel, it would not do anything to its surroundings other than encourage car-dependent development. This would absolutely not represent the highest-and-best use of the property. An amusement park at Dix is a non-starter; I say we put that idea to rest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't really need to go as far as Yokohama as the Myrtle Beach Pavillion Amusement Park is an example of a downtown amusement park that packs a lot into a small area. It probably covers 4 or 5 sq blocks and has been there over 50 years.

They handle millions of visitors/year. Here are a few photos of the park and the beach in front of it.

Believe it or not, this is one of two downtown amusement parks there, but I don't have photos of the other one.

[urbanesq]

cool pics! have been going to the Pavillion since I was a little kid, and take my kids there every year nowadays. It's true that this is an example of a downtown amusement park that works, but that's primarily (I think) because that entire city is an amusement park of sorts-- it's a tourist attraction with a ba-zillion hotel rooms within walking distance of the rides, other attractions, mini-golf by the hundreds, and tons of people spending all their vacation money at the beach. Can't really compare it to downtown Raleigh.

The last time we were down there, I struck me that the area could use some infill. There are supertower hotels all around, but the shops are oldish and don't appear to generate much traffic. I wondered if you couldn't play up the pedestrian aspects of the area to really beef up the area around the Pavillion with condos, apartments, etc. and some more destination retail. What do others think-- would that be a good thing, or erase some of the kitch charm that the place has going for it now?

[Damien]

Yesterday I was watching the Raleigh Television Network and they were going over the Garden of Lights plan for the Dorthea Dix property, and in the festival area they did show a ferris wheel and what looked like a little kiddie amusement park clustered into one little area. A full on amusement park probably wouldnt work out so well there because of the issues stated, parking, noise, etc., but I think that a ferris wheel and maybe a carousel would be a cool addition and make for more of a destination, especially for families whose kids couldnt care less about seeing a botanical garden. Plus it would be really cool to see the view of downtown from the top of a ferris wheel. All in all, I dont think there is a good chance of an amusement park being built around here, however cool it might be to have one in the area.

[urbanesq]

Yesterday I was watching the Raleigh Television Network and they were going over the  Garden of Lights plan for the Dorthea Dix property, and in the festival area they did show a ferris wheel and what looked like a little kiddie amusement park clustered into one little area. A full on amusement park probably wouldnt work out so well there because of the issues stated, parking, noise, etc., but I think that a ferris wheel and maybe a carousel would be a cool addition and make for more of a destination, especially for families whose kids couldnt care less about seeing a botanical garden. Plus it would be really cool to see the view of downtown from the top of a ferris wheel. All in all, I dont think there is a good chance of an amusement park being built around here, however cool it might be to have one in the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure how that's different from Pullen Park's amusement area, which is very heavily used, and has been since it opened a centurry ago. Not sure, either, what would justify having a small kids' amusement park replicated just a few hundred feet away from Pullen. Why not just add a ferris wheel to Pullen's mix and use the Dix land for something else?

Side note-- when it opened, Pullen Park had a small zoo, with several exotic animals , very much like the old Central Park zoo with wroght iron cages, etc.

[MR-2]

Don't forget that Cary is the 3rd largest city in the Triangle with over 100,000 people.  That's twice the population of Chapel Hill.  It seems like our metro should be referred to as "Raleigh-Durham-Cary" instead of "Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill".  I don't know, maybe it all stems from the whole 3 University research triangle thing.  Oh well, I guess I'll stop my useless banter now LOL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cary is a suburb of Raleigh. Chapel Hill is a totally independant city. And the Triangle does refer to the universities, IIRC. Plus, consider Chapel Hill + Carrboro as one city, and it's not really that small.

It's obvious that the cencus goes by county, and this is where the Triad has an advantage: their core metro area is just Guilford and Forsynth counties, but they extend slightly into all of the neighboring counties, so they probably include the total population of the cities in those counties as well, even though they aren't technically part of the Triad metro.

The Triangle probably just includes Wake/Durham/Orange, because outside of those, there are nearby populations in the region (henderson, oxford, etc.) but they aren't economically important to the Triangle. That's my guess, anyway.

[paletexan]

Let's be cutting edge for a change. I propose several rock climbing walls off midrise parking decks downtown. That would be raw entertainment in the triangle for next to nothing in cost.

[MR-2]

I don't think that amusement parks (of the massive variety like Carowinds) belong so close to downtown. They carry way too much of baggage - traffic, huge parking lots, noise, and a complete lack of connectivity because the whole area is fenced off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Elitches moved to downtown Denver, and it works very well. Granted, Carowinds is a substantially larger and more well-rounded park, but it shows that they can work.

I think the current plan for Dorothea Dix is appropriate. Pullen Park is good as a quiet urban park. An amusement park would be too noisy and touristy. I'm starting to think that with the TTA rail system up, a park on the Garner side of Raleigh's outskirts could work if it had a decent enough retail environment established around it simultanously. There are enough undeveloped patches to make that area potentially good. It's not really that far from downtown, and as long as it had TTA access it could be just as good as one downtown.

[urbanesq]

I'm starting to think that with the TTA rail system up, a park on the Garner side of Raleigh's outskirts could work if it had a decent enough retail environment established around it simultanously. There are enough undeveloped patches to make that area potentially good. It's not really that far from downtown, and as long as it had TTA access it could be just as good as one downtown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is actually a really good idea. I think about cities with integrated transportation systems, and it makes total sense to locate something like an amusement park on a transit line so it functions as part of the city since one can access it without a car, but is located in a way that any negative impacts are buffered with enough land/space.

If they're done right, this type of use could be a good economic engine for that part of the county.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I love the idea of an amusment park in our area. I was thinking that putting it in Johnston County would be a good idea/plenty of land. Put it right off of I-40, land would be cheaper than Wake, good road access I-40 and near I-95, It would help the economy of Eastern NC. Maybe a combined water park and amusement park? I would prefer a Six Flags which we don't have in NC/VA.

[ncwebguy]

It's funny that people suggest an amusement park on the outskirts of downtown Raleigh

served by transit -- it already happened!

There is a brief mention on this page:

http://www.raleigh-nc.org/portal/server.pt...928-103832.html

"The trolley lines that ran up Glenwood Avenue to Bloomsbury Park (now the Carolina Country Club) were replaced in 1933 by bus service."

I think Bloomsbury Bistro, in Five Points a few doors down from Eckerds, takes its name from this, but

I've never been in there. There's more in a book I have, The History of Raleigh Through Postcards (not sure of the exact title, but it is good for what it is.)

The idea of a spring/summer "state fair midway" downtown would be cool. Heck, the state fair was downtown it's first approx. 20 years, in the East Hargett/Tarboro Road intersection area, before moving down Hillsborough St. (to where the Raleigh Rose garden on Pogue St. is now -- with horse races held there!) and then even further down Hillsborough to it's current location.

There were a lot of "trolley parks" after the turn of the century, built by the trolley companies to get people to ride on the weekends. Raleigh's trolley was run by the power company that eventually became Progress Energy. The building Southend Brewery is now in used to be the maintenance facility for these cars.

In addition to running down Glenwood, another line ran right down the middle of Hillsborough St. Looking at old Technicians (NC State's newspaper), ads encouraged students to take the trolley downtown to shop at Belks, eat at various places, etc.

The tinfoil hat theorists say the automotive, oil, and rubber/tire companies set up bus lines to at first supplement, then replace the trolley cars, and then mismanaged the buses so the middle class would embrace car culture, with it's "freedoms" of go anywhere any time, and to be able to move further away from those pesky neighbors.

Anyway, there is a *lot* of underused land just inside and outside the beltline in the Garner Road/Hammond Road/Wilmington Street Corridors, but for good reason -- the pet food plant off Blount/Hammond smells horrible when things are "cooking" and there are a few EPA brownfield sites along Garner Rd.

The neighborhoods south of downtown/north of that area are quite economically depressed, and almost seem resistant to changing things.

I would like to see something there, or maybe on the land/former airstrip southwest of the South Saunders/Wilmington Street merge, but all investment that way moved further along 70 to Garner, and now even further down 70 to the 40 intersection.

South of the Border, back in its heyday, could be a model for what a downtown amusement park could be -- tilt-a-whirl, maybe an acorn tower instead of a sombreo one? There have been a few "downtown carnivals" on the site of the new convention center pre-construction, and the parking lot between the existing convention center and Raleigh Memorial Auditorium.

The block due west of the new convention center (where Sir Walter Raleigh Chevrolet used to be) will be land owned by the city and held for convention center expansion down the road, and access under McDowell to the Convention center basement. The land on that block may be used for alive after five/downtown alive/etc., or some kind of structure that would be 1) complementrary to the conventoin center and 2) knows it may get knocked down in 20-30 years.

[Brendan]

I continue to wonder how many other metro areas on the east coast don't have an amusement park within 50 miles. The closest amusement parks for the Triangle area of North Carolina are Carowinds outside Charlotte, and Kings Dominion outside Richmond, with both approximately 3 hours away from Raleigh.

The Raleigh-Durham-Cary Combined Statistical area has an estimated population of 1,690,557 people. Include Chapel Hill and other surrounding towns in Orange, Wake and Johnston County and the area's population gets closer to 2 million people.

The population and demographics of the Raleigh-Durham-Cary-Chapel Hill area would appear to be favorable to an amusement park located in the area. I agree with other posters about placing this off I-40 near Garner, about 25 miles off I-95.

To me, I think the Raleigh-Durham area lacks any major entertainment attractions for families (especially with older kids), so a nearby amusement park would likely be extremely successful.

I recently spoke with a friend who is in commercial real estate. He thought that it would be virtually impossible to pull together enough land off I-40 near the Garner area without it being cost prohibited. He thought that owners would jack up their asking prices once word got out that the buyer was a park. (Aren't there ways to do this secretly?)

Or is the Triangle in a sort of voodoo location between two existing parks? Too far for many to visit frequently, yet too close together to have a new park built between?

What do you think?

[DPK]

I recently spoke with a friend who is in commercial real estate. He thought that it would be virtually impossible to pull together enough land off I-40 near the Garner area without it being cost prohibited. He thought that owners would jack up their asking prices once word got out that the buyer was a park. (Aren't there ways to do this secretly?)

Or is the Triangle in a sort of voodoo location between two existing parks? Too far for many to visit frequently, yet too close together to have a new park built between?

What do you think?

[Gard]

As DPK has said, I don't believe that it's economically feasible at this time. Six Flags, for instance, recently filed for chapter 11. For that matter, banks would likely laugh off any developer wanting to invest in something so risky. Developers are having a hard enough time getting money for needed projects, much less such things as an amusement park.