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I could go on and on and on about TalTran, since I depend on them for my transportation....

I say the hell with the transfer stations. They're obsolete, and a vestige of when Tallahassee was a much smaller town. Tallahassee is too big for it to continue using the "spoke and hub" system.

We need routes running continuously down the same street. We have several buses use Tennessee Street, but none of those buses use Mahan! Buses need to run on all the major streets........Tennessee/Mahan, Monroe, Old Bainbridge, Meridian, Thomasville, Magnolia/Centerville/Blair Stone, Miccosukee, a route the circles Capital Circle from North Monroe to the flyover.

TalTrans needs to diversify its fleet. Having entirely 35 foot buses isn't going to work. They need larger buses for routes that are more crowded and during peak hours. They also need smaller buses that can be used for lighter traveled routes or to serve as "neighborhood connectors", which take people from the neighborhoods to the nearest main street where major routes run. This makes operations more efficient.....why run a big old bus on a lightly traveled route? Smaller buses can save $$$.

Why has TalTran now started to advertise? They need to take a cue from other transit agencies....Metro-Dade Transit and BCT wrap a lot of their buses in advertisments. It's interesting.....the advertisments cover the windows, but you can look outside unobstructed.

The TalTran logo is over 40 years old. I've seen pictures of circa 1960s buses with the exact same logo the buses have today. They need to get with it. On the 2005 buses, they didn't even bother to paint them! They just put on the logo.....cheap, cheap, cheap.

TalTran bought about 6-7 New Flyers from MARTA in ATL. They're nice buses and larger than the rest of the fleet, but they're old.....1994 models. They should have bought "newer" old buses if they did not have the money to purchase brand new ones. Those Flyers are going to show their age quickly. IMO, they should continue to buy from Gillig, which they have been since 2001. Gillig makes very good buses. (Buses are another one of my main interests).

As for the snobs in Killearn and Golden Eagle......TalTran can tell them to bite their ass and put transit there anyway. What are they going to do? Do you think that the "poor" undesired people from Frenchtown and the southside are going to use the buses to go to Killearn to commit crime? Yeah right....

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I like your line of thining... I just need to understand a little better how this would work...

... we're talking about buses that run continuously in a loop along the same route... passengers would get of at a select street only to be picked up by yet another bus running in a continuous loop until they reach their final destination?

Is this how it works with larger more established systems? If so I like this idea...

not to mention it would free up a little property downtown for another project or two.

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"... we're talking about buses that run continuously in a loop along the same route... passengers would get of at a select street only to be picked up by yet another bus running in a continuous loop until they reach their final destination?"

Yes. This is how the system works with Metro-Dade Transit. It works better with a strict street grid system, but it could work here. For example, I want to get from FSU to Village Square in Killearn. I could take a bus that loops along Tennessee/Mahan, then transfer to another bus which loops along Capital Circle/Thomasville. No need to transfer downtown and go the opposite way of where I need to be going.

"Is this how it works with larger more established systems? If so I like this idea..."

Yes! Metro-Dade Transit and Broward County Transit (BCT) both work like this. Trust me, it's helluva more efficient than a spoke and hub. Imagine me, living in North Dade, having to travel to a hub in downtown Miami to get to Hialeah or something. That is the absolute dumbest thing in the world.

"not to mention it would free up a little property downtown for another project or two."

Yes, it would. C.K. Steele Plaza sits on some pretty valuable real estate down there!

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As one with a little planning under your belt can you tell us wether it matters that we are a hub and spoke city? Would it be easy for us to convert to a grid-like system? I can picture buses on a continuous loop to and from some central point when I close my eyes... its hard to picture anything else. But if you think about it, considering a bus that runs the length of 90 through Tallahassee and one that does it in another. Same with Monroe, Old Bainbridge, Miccosukee, Centerville, Thomasville, Pensacola, Adams, Gaines and so on... I think what you're proposing could work... sounds good.

Could you do a demo map for us.

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Here is the map. A simplified version, but I hope it gives you the idea.

Map.gif

JPL: So you saw the map that the DURP studio produced for TAlTran? That looked just like something that I saw in one of my classes. The issues, though, are that the city and the universities are the only ones putting substantial money into the pot, and at any given moment, TK might take his ball and go home, leaving TalTran even more hard up for cash. The leadership, although getting better is still mired in the mindset of giving limited bad service to everyone, rather than super service to key areas. It's gonna to take a lot to overcome these barriers.

My question that I want to throw out is what if FSU pulls its money out of Taltran and decides to start its own bus service? How do you all see it being shaped? What routes would you see as key if you were desiging a system for FSU? How early/late would you run buses? What headways would you all have for that system?

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Just to throw in a quick answer to that question... I think the only difference we'd see in FSU starting its own bus system are smaller busses and probably more of them runing the same routes. Its my understanding that the school is responsible for the routes currently run by TalTran on campus... I'm sure there's more to add to this.

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JPL: So you saw the map that the DURP studio produced for TAlTran? That looked just like something that I saw in one of my classes. The issues, though, are that the city and the universities are the only ones putting substantial money into the pot, and at any given moment, TK might take his ball and go home, leaving TalTran even more hard up for cash. The leadership, although getting better is still mired in the mindset of giving limited bad service to everyone, rather than super service to key areas. It's gonna to take a lot to overcome these barriers.

My question that I want to throw out is what if FSU pulls its money out of Taltran and decides to start its own bus service? How do you all see it being shaped? What routes would you see as key if you were desiging a system for FSU? How early/late would you run buses? What headways would you all have for that system?

No, I'm afraid I didn't see the map the DURP studio produced. I've only been in the program since the summer, plus I'm an undergrad so I'm in the dark when it comes to their projects. I know someone from my Transportation/Land Use class is working on the TalTran project (Clayton is his name, don't know if you know him).

I'm pretty sure FSU controls the routes TalTran runs on campus......for example, they added the Heritage Grove Express and those two shuttles that go between FSU & FAMU to a bunch of student housing complexes. They also control the actual routes......some time ago, a change was made where the bus goes down South Woodward by the diner.

As far as smaller buses........FSU can't control that, since TalTran itself decides what kind of buses to buy, how many, how big/small. But like I said before, they need to diversify their fleet. Here's an idea......FSU buys the buses, TalTran runs them.

FSU is a large bureaucracy.........I don't know if I'd want them running their own bus service. They tend to screw everything else up. I work at FSU, and the politics that go on here make me vomit. The bus service need not be politicized. It just needs to bloody work! :D

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"I'm pretty sure FSU controls the routes TalTran runs on campus......for example, they added the Heritage Grove Express and those two shuttles that go between FSU & FAMU to a bunch of student housing complexes. They also control the actual routes......some time ago, a change was made where the bus goes down South Woodward by the diner.

As far as smaller buses........FSU can't control that, since TalTran itself decides what kind of buses to buy, how many, how big/small. But like I said before, they need to diversify their fleet. Here's an idea......FSU buys the buses, TalTran runs them.

FSU is a large bureaucracy.........I don't know if I'd want them running their own bus service. They tend to screw everything else up. I work at FSU, and the politics that go on here make me vomit. The bus service need not be politicized. It just needs to bloody work!"

Yea, because there are no politics in the COT :whistling:

FSU would do a much better job of running it's bus service than the COT. You think FSU is inefficient and full of politics? Nothing compared to the COT.

FSU does have influence on where routes are and the design of buses (there are now FSU buses). FSU also wants smaller buses which makes sesnse. Basically FSU is considering it's own service and I think it will happen eventually because the COT and FSU just don't work well together. Which is fine....I would rather them work seperately and not fight than work together and fight like we currently have.

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I wonder what it is that keeps them from working well together. I don't think its the city's bureaucratic force, because staffing here is fresh and cooperative at nearly every level in this city.

I'd agree that FSU should probably do its own thing, but I wonder how that would impact students who currently use their FSU cards to get around the city as well as the campus.

Would the school continue to pay for students to travel around Tallahassee? If not, would the school's bus system provide students with transportation to key destinations far from the campus.

I'd like to see FSU do its own thing, and I'd like to see the City Continue to provide services to FAMU and TCC and compare the services.

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I heard something similar. The slant I heard was that busses need to be smaller on campus to allow for easier manuverability around tight corners. As it is now.... the TalTran busses need atleast 800ft of space ahead to make turns.

Smaller busses would be cool. I'd like to see the school do a little something different with the design on the actual bus. The "FSU" busses they rolled out this semester look so old school. We should demand something bold and exciting... like the buses they have at UGA:

DSCF1578.jpg

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That's a nice looking bus!! :D Looks to me like a 40ft New Flyer.

Yea, because there are no politics in the COT

I never said there were no politics in COT. I just thought FSU was a bad idea for running the bus service. Like you said, it may not be a bad idea. I really don't know the insider politics in COT, so FSU is probably better.

COT and FSU disagree because FSU wants parking garages, and COT wants increased bus ridership. I can see where they disagree, but FSU ain't going nowhere, so they might as well join hands and sing kumbaya :P Wishful thinking, I know.

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You've hit it on the head. FSU is totally going about the wrong way of planning for growth. The school has a sizeable budget and I think it could do a better job at coordinating with local developers who build these sprawling apartment communities where students must communte 3 miles or more to school. That's ridiculous.

Everything should be in mid-rise buildings around the campus. All of the apartment communities away from campus should be reserved for families and such, or singles not in college. Just my thought. It makes no since for use to waist the resources as students driving to school, looking for parking, going in circles, when one can simply walk across the street. Look at Pensacola Street, Augustine Steet, Lake Bradford.... there is tons of room there for growth. I think the possibility for some sort of transit oriented development is possible for both campuses. Dedicated bus lanes or rails that serve the school(s).

It would be the coolest thing.

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You've hit it on the head. FSU is totally going about the wrong way of planning for growth. The school has a sizeable budget and I think it could do a better job at coordinating with local developers who build these sprawling apartment communities where students must communte 3 miles or more to school. That's ridiculous.

Everything should be in mid-rise buildings around the campus. All of the apartment communities away from campus should be reserved for families and such, or singles not in college. Just my thought. It makes no since for use to waist the resources as students driving to school, looking for parking, going in circles, when one can simply walk across the street. Look at Pensacola Street, Augustine Steet, Lake Bradford.... there is tons of room there for growth. I think the possibility for some sort of transit oriented development is possible for both campuses. Dedicated bus lanes or rails that serve the school(s).

It would be the coolest thing.

I totally agree! For the longest time, I have longed for a light light rail system to transport people around FSU - something along the lines of a trolley, which just uses a single rail and can be easily built on top of existing infastructure. Or perhaps an automated people mover on rails, like MetroMover down in Miami. No drivers, completely automated. It can run on main travel paths around campus, and have certain safety features as to not injure pedestrians on the paths.

Buses are nice......but at FSU, they have limited capacity. They have to compete with congested traffic and 1920ish streets built before the age of the bus. Rails are a better answer. TalTran should really diversify and look into "lite" light rail and more.

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In light of what you've said... I think FSU, not TalTran should look at the possibility of adding rail to campus. So should FAMU. I'd like to see how much it cost Disney to do their rail system... Im just curious .

I do think Rail is the answer to the troubles on campus... especially seeing as how we've got an access road North of the campus and Jefferson Street south of campus with mostly local traffic. Easy to implement a system.

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