Future Downtown Raleigh retail

[orulz]

Would any of you like to see a department (Macy's, Bloomingdale's, Marshall Fields, etc) store open up in downtown Raliegh? Of course nobody's proposing to do that just yet, but do you think the market could be there, say, 5 years from now? Do you think that such a project could fit in? I think that if current patterns continue, the Triangle area could definitely support it, and it would also give the city's urban character a big boost. If properly located near a TTA transit station and surrounded by other activity, it could serve as a huge people magnet to get people to ride the trains on the weekend, too.

Just a thought.

[IBruton]

Would any of you like to see a department (Macy's, Bloomingdale's, Marshall Fields, etc) store open up in downtown Raliegh? Of course nobody's proposing to do that just yet, but do you think the market could be there, say, 5 years from now? Do you think that such a project could fit in? I think that if current patterns continue, the Triangle area could definitely support it, and it would also give the city's urban character a big boost. If properly located near a TTA transit station and surrounded by other activity, it could serve as a huge people magnet to get people to ride the trains on the weekend, too.

Just a thought.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think now is the time to bring retail back to Fayetteville Street. An anchor department store on each end of the mall and one in the center would basically bring in the "in-fill" stores. Come on Macy's, Bloomindales, and anyone else....we need you.

[JunktionFET]

Federated doesn't have any stores in NC. They are virtually everywhere else, but not here.

[DigitalSky]

I think Belk is part of the reason Federated isn't here. Look at many other places, Federated took the hometwon department store and docked on the word Macy's at the end. In Atlanta - their hometown department store, Rich's, is now Rich's-Macy's. Could you imagine Belk-Macy's?

They've done it with so many... Lazarus-Macy's, Bon-Macy's, Burdine's-Macy's, Goldsmith's-Macy's and so on

PLUS- Charlotte should get the department store first! Yall in the triangle got Lord and Taylor first (Charlotte never did), Nordstrom first (Charlotte got it 2nd), and Saks Fifth Ave first (Charlotte has YET to see it)

[StevenRocks]

I think Belk is part of the reason Federated isn't here.  Look at many other places, Federated took the hometwon department store and docked on the word Macy's at the end.  In Atlanta - their hometown department store, Rich's, is now Rich's-Macy's.  Could you imagine Belk-Macy's?

They've done it with so many... Lazarus-Macy's, Bon-Macy's, Burdine's-Macy's, Goldsmith's-Macy's and so on

PLUS- Charlotte should get the department store first! Yall in the triangle got Lord and Taylor first (Charlotte never did), Nordstrom first (Charlotte got it 2nd), and Saks Fifth Ave first (Charlotte has YET to see it) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right, cantnot. Belk is so dominant in North Carolina and entrenched in the best malls in the state that Federated wouldn't be able to saturate the market like it would want to if it came in, unless it bought Belk's best stores, or those of Hecht's or Dillard's.

Belk won't sell its bigger stores because they're immensely profitable. They also have the power, along with most mall anchors, to veto stores that they feel don't fit into their vision of the property. I highly doubt a direct competitor like Macy's would fit into Belk's vision.

Dillard's is a easier aquisition target than Belk, but it doesn't have 'critical mass' in the Triangle any more. Not having a store in Durham and only two in Wake County at the less popular Cary and Triangle Town Centers won't help them from an aquisition standpoint.

The Hecht's scenario becomes more and more possible every day, because of the ongoing May-Federated negotiations. Under that scenario, Federated could come in, without Belk stopping them, and possibly open a downtown Raleigh Macy's store, though it's not likely without a major complimentary development and some massive tax breaks

A hstorical note: Federated did consider opening in Charlotte back in the late '80s. An original anchor list at Carolina Place during the planning stages in mentioned Rich's, but Federated filed for bankruptcy shortly after that and backed out of the project.

[urbanvb]

Does Raleigh have any upscale retail shops located DT? It would be neat to have an area with retail and housing together though maybe this is up and coming. Old Town Alexandria VA is such a place that offers both has lots of upscale retail shops such as Banana Republic, Restoration Hardware as well as new and old housing choices.

[urbanvb]

Here are a few pics as examples.

[Justin6882]

Thats really beautiful! But unfortunately, Raleigh definitely lacks upscale shopping downtown. We have a couple of "NY STYLE" places that bar their windows at night, but nothing like that, downtown at least. Cameron Village is pretty upscale, but thats a mile or so outside of downtown.

We're working on it though!!

[urbanvb]

Ok, that is good to hear. These kinds of places are great as they have restaurants, housing and shops all together. It is a great place to hang out and just people watch. It really gives a sense of community also imo.

[NCMike1981]

A little off subject but up until a year or 2 ago downtown Chapel Hill had a Gap and Sephora....alas they didn't make it...I think eventually downtown Raleigh will have stores like this, we just need more residential first...

[urbanesq]

As I understand it we're also looking to add more upscale retailers as part of the entertainment district adjacent to the new convention center; which was part of the Craig Davis proposal, I think.

[dmccall]

That look (that guynvb showed in his photos) is EXACTLY how we should redevelop the section between Dorothea Dix and the new convention center. Condos/apartments upstairs should be geared toward young people who work in the RTP. They could walk <6 blocks to the TTA train station. This would set downtown on fire.

[paletexan]

I think the outside portion of the Streets of Southpoint looks really nice, and pedestrian oriented. If only they could build something like that on the existing street grid downtown, rather than appended to a suburban mall.

I guess that's as close as you'll ever see here in the triangle to the pictures you've posted.

[Jones_]

I love Alexandria, especially old town, and have held it up as an example of almost perfect urban form, although I have met with much disagreement in this forum. I have family there and visit often.

So many things influence whether or not we will ever see even the modern version of this type of urban structure in Raleigh that it is hard to imagine how Raleigh could ever pull off this sort of fabric. Raleigh does not have the resources to pull off the Historic angle any longer except maybe on and around Hargett/Wilmington/200 Block Fayetteville so we would have to think new like near Balston Metro in Arlington VA. Stuff like Park Deveraux (with no street level connections) is setting back any hope of having this sort of mix and I agree that the South, Lenoir, and Cabarrus corridors from Boylan Heights to downtown might end up like that. Stuff like the St Mary's Townhomes on West Hargett might have created a fabric like this if they fronted the street instead of being turned away from the street. Every street downtown seems to be a thoroughfare and that is a hurdle.

[dmccall]

I think the outside portion of the Streets of Southpoint looks really nice, and pedestrian oriented.  If only they could build something like that on the existing street grid downtown, rather than appended to a suburban mall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So...you're saying that we need our downtown to emulate a suburban shopping center which is emulating a downtown??? ha ha!!

[closeminded]

Yes. I think he is right! Imagine if projects like the Lassiter and outdoor Southpoint were downtown. It would make Raleigh's center a true destination for all folks. The only thing that DT has now is a whole bunch of bars,clubs, and overpriced condos. In order for DT Raleigh to succeed is to take everything the suburbs now have and structure it into a dense urban atmosphere. Places that we go to do everyday things, grocery stores, mall type shops, and "REAL" affordable housing.

[urbanvb]

Most Raleighites do have the income and would probably support the retail establishments if a place somewhat like Old Town existed. Build it and they will come!

[paletexan]

So...you're saying that we need our downtown to emulate a suburban shopping center which is emulating a downtown???  ha ha!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess i am. yikes.

This is further evidence that most Triangle types will try anything to avoid downtown. Let's trick them by building a super wal-mart off Fayetteville St with 4 blocks of surface lots!!

[dmccall]

he heh! I agree that development to bring old town charm downtown would be outstanding. I just think the irony is funny.

I guess i am.  yikes.

This is further evidence that most Triangle types will try anything to avoid downtown.  Let's trick them by building a super wal-mart off Fayetteville St with 4 blocks of surface lots!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[capitalapts]

As an Alexandrian by birth and Arlingtonian by upbrining, Old Town was a swell spot to visit. It had something really key going for it, though: the Potomac waterfront. Something Raleigh lacks (unless they try to follow through with that ridiculous river walk along pigeon house branch).

That said, as far as anything Raleigh could offer comparable to Old Town, look no further than City Market as a starting point. I am still flummoxed that the old Greenshields building (i.e., the historic City Market itself) has not been sold, redone, and entrenched as a popular spot. There are lots of charming potential storefront areas in the vicinity on the cobbled adjacent areas to boot. If that were to carry up Martin St. to the revitalized Fayetteville St., we just might have something going-I see no reason why it can't.

[urbanvb]

Whatever happened to the old Lord and Taylor space at Crabtree. Has another retailer gobbled it up yet?

[StevenRocks]

Whatever happened to the old Lord and Taylor space at Crabtree. Has another retailer gobbled it up yet?

As far as I know it's still a Lord & Taylor (not a good one at all anymore). No takers so far.

[urbanvb]

As far as I know it's still a Lord & Taylor (not a good one at all anymore). No takers so far.

Ahh, I guess I was under the impression all the L&T stores had closed in the southeast .. well that is south of the DC area.

[NCMike1981]

It's hanging on until January '06, I suppose they are hoping to make some decent money during the x-mas holiday season....I hear that Crabtree is breaking up the space into smaller shops, I suppose the mall couldn't woo an anchor into the space....

[StevenRocks]

It's hanging on until January '06, I suppose they are hoping to make some decent money during the x-mas holiday season....I hear that Crabtree is breaking up the space into smaller shops, I suppose the mall couldn't woo an anchor into the space....

They won't make much at Christmas if the store is no better than it was when I was last there a few months ago. Lord & Taylor always treated that store like a castoff for some reason, and since they've been in closing mode for about two years, the place is nothing more than an outlet for all the stuff they can't get rid of at other Lord & Taylor stores. Unless you're not picky or are primarily looking for cosmetics, it's a dud.

I really hope they can bring Neiman Marcus (or at least Dillard's) into that space rather than have it broken up into smaller spaces. It's a great location in center court and it deserves a department store.

There was a rumor that Hudson Belk was considering taking the space and building a brand new flagship store at one point, but since they've been tearing through their Crabtree store with the remodeled departments, I guess the center court deal ain't gonna happen.

If they are going to cut up that store, I hope they put a bigger Crate & Barrel in part of it. The existing store is very successful and it would be great to get their furniture selection into the Triangle.