Future Downtown Raleigh retail

[dmccall]

Sue Stock at the N&O reported in June or July that the store was definitely going to be chopped up. Personally I'd like to see them expand it inward to the mall's axis and move Hudson Belk there. Chop up Hudson Belk as a mall extension, and extend a 3-story garage all the way to Blue Ridge Rd with retail on top. Here is my detailed plan.

Crabtree expansion plan link

http://www.raleighing.com/2005/08/crabtree_expans.html

[IBruton]

Does anyone know how many square feet of retail space will be available along Fay. Street (And immediately adjacent ares)? It would be great if downtown could compete with regional malls. At 1.4 million square feet each, they really are retail powerhouses.

[StevenRocks]

I love retail in all its forms. Is there much to speak of in Downtown Raleigh, store-wise? I havern't been since Hudson Belk was still downtown.

[DanRNC]

Nancy Hormann stated that the goal was not to compete with malls but to have more boutique shopping along F Street.

[ncwebguy]

I don't know the square footage, but here is all retail uses on Fayetville Street and the blocks inside the Wilmington/Salisbury corridor that I can think of from memory:

100 block - the Capitol Room, Cafe Carolina, American Pita Grill.

Also: Wachovia and M&F Banks.

200 block - CVS pharmacy, Times Bar, Brass Grill, an office furniture store (fronts Wilmington), the home furniture store, the home furnishings store replacing the Hallmark store, Quiznos Subs, Big Easy (coming soon), Port City Java, China Court, Mecca, Square Rabbit.

Also: Martin Street Music Hall, First Citizens Bank, a print shop that fronts Wilmington.

300 block - Yancey's (coming soon), UPS Store and Deli (*really* close to opening) in the Hudson fronting Wilmington.

Also: WTVD 11, US Post Office, Wake County Library express (is it still there?), Wake Coutny Courthouse, Capitol Bank, RBC (in a few years).

400 block - Barber shop, 9th Street flowers, Chick Fil A, BoA convenience store, Sheraton hotel bar and restaurant, Sam and Wallys deli, Sheraton Covenience Store.

Also: RBC Centura, BoA, BB&T.

There are *plenty* of empty storefronts. The botiques have concentrated in City Market and Glenwood South... I hope this will change, but I'm not holding my breath.

[StevenRocks]

Sounds like a decent retail mix, but not exactly impressive.

[ChiefJoJo]

I thought I'd bring this topic orulz started previously back up to the top... given the interest in the IKEA and other recent announcements, this will be a topic exploring the retail folks would like to see in Downtown Raleigh in the future--please let's keep it focused on Downtown retail, and not regional malls, etc.

[Damien]

H&M hands down!

[pack-man]

k-mart

[DanRNC]

With Crabtree and TTC sputtering it would be conceivable to add a decent amount of mall-type retail to the CBD and shift the momentum to this area including boutique-type stores.

[Transplant]

As much as I like boutiquey places, I think we need to have national retailers too. Many people I know would be more inclined to go shopping DT for a mix of stores. For national retailers, I'd like to see something like GAP, Urban Outfitters, Brooks Brothers, Victoria's Secret, a bookstore, shoe store (Rack Room), Apple, & many more.

I personally do not think that North Hills has a good mix of stores. They have a big dependancy on food services. I would like to see DT having a better mix.

I'm sure many will disagree, but thats the way I see it. A library DT (A top end one, not some crappy one done on the cheap) would be fantastic.

[ChiefJoJo]

In terms of major retailers, we can look to our neighbors in Charlotte, who have a center city population of around 10k, and they don't have any major retailers to speak of... doesn't mean it won't happen, but in the near term, we probably won't see the Gap, H&M, etc. Probably not on anyone's hotlist, but I know an national ice cream retailer who is thinking of setting up shop DT.

[DanRNC]

SouthPark, Concord Mills and all the other malls/strip malls in or around also killed Charlotte's ability to attract retailers downtown. Raleigh really lacks any type of major mall presence, so it is almost like starting from scratch. North Hills, like someone stated previously, has limited retail besides restaurants.

[drewpiece]

Raleigh really lacks any type of major mall presence...

Are you serious??? What exactly does qualify as "major mall presence" in your book then?

[DanRNC]

People don't come from all over the region or state to go to Crabtree Valley Mall-I wouldn't even drive from Chapel Hill to go there. Charlotte has Concord Mills and Southpark which draws from not only from the greater Charlotte area but from SC all the way up to this area. Same with Concord Mills. TTC parking lots are like the Mojave Desert most of the time.

[ncwebguy]

Concord Mills does well due to its proximity to 85, and the lack of specialty retail, movie theaters, and restaurants in the 85 corridor. South Park is pulling the retailers that would be in downtown (as a kid growing up there in the late 70s/early 80s, I refuse to call it uptown!). If Charlotte converted their old civic center into a mall-like place with Nordstroms, the fates of the center city and South Park could have been different. South park would still have done well, but a downtown Nordstroms could have attracted a lot of the high end stores that flocked to SP.

Triangle Town Center bent over backwards to get Saks for the same reason, but few other stores followed their lead.

Raleigh could learn from Charlotte and encourage downtown retail before other areas -- Crabtree, Cameron Village, etc. -- become too attractive to pass up. With Belks filling up the last Crabtree anchor, downtown could draw some retailers. Urban Outfitters could be a good fit for the "new" downtown. American Apparel has *no* mall locations, though I don't know how their Charlotte store is doing. And there is always H&M.

I like Cremara a lot, but I could see Ben and Jerry's setting up shop in the old Womens' store at Hargett and Wilmington or on Hargett between Wilmington and Blount. It would be close to Moore Square and Exlporis, and a couple of blocks from the Natural Sciences/History museum complex.

Wag, the dog store on Glenwood, didn't last long.... Does anyone know why?

[tjoad]

My friend and I were on Fayetteville St. today and were wondering if Kimbrell's is going to stay at this PRIME location. It's seems out of this place, considering the huge potential that space has.

[reed]

My friend and I were on Fayetteville St. today and were wondering if Kimbrell's is going to stay at this PRIME location. It's seems out of this place, considering the huge potential that space has.

yeah, but they stuck with downtown through thick & thin. they deserve this prime spot.

[tjoad]

yeah, but they stuck with downtown through thick & thin. they deserve this prime spot.

I understand your point, but if we're talking about deserving doesn't Fayetteville St./downtown deserve a distinct, destination type place there?

[DanRNC]

I thought I saw a story a couple of months ago stating Kimbrell's was either moving or shutting down.

[NCMike1981]

If they own their space and are making a profit I see no reason why they should vacate. I mean it's not like downtown/Fayetteville street is being used to it's fullest potential. Then again if they are leasing the space they may get the boot if some1 comes along willing to pay more rent for the space...

[ncwebguy]

According to the Wake County tax site, Kimbrell's own their building.

I don't know how well they do there, and they do have another location in Tryon Hills Shopping Center, on the SW corner of 70/401 and Tryon with plenty of surface parking right in front of the store...

The property's tax value is only $787,611, with a $9k tax bill last year. Someone will have to throw a lot of money at them for the building before they move. They routinely park their delivery trucks on East Hargett at night and on the weekends. I don't know the legality of something that large parking on a neighborhood street. But it is between the federal government's lot and the Gordon Smith apartment block, so there are no neighbors there to complain.

I don't see how low-mid furniture does well, and I rarely see anyone go in or out. But they must be doing something right.

[ChiefJoJo]

I pointed this out on the retail updates topic in the coffee house, but Cole Jenest and Stone just moved out (next to Crema), and the old dollar store (Empire's spot) is still for lease. I don't think Kimbrells will move anytime soon until these other retail spots are full and demand is higher. The bldg is in a perfect spot on the street, and not historic in any way (can't imagine you would do a retrofit there)... the potential for the Kimbrells lot would be to probably tear it down and rebuild something taller on that spot--probably 8-10 story condos with retail to make it work. To do a project like that would be quite complex with the Briggs Bldg and the State Bar surrounding it in very close proximity, and the lot is VERY long and narrow.

Right now we're at the stage where small retrofits (a la Raleigh Times, Heilig-Levine, etc) and large (~1-2 acre)"clean slate" site projects (RBC, Site1, PE III, etc) are the norm. Doing something worthwhile on Kimbrell's lot will probably not come for several years.

[RaleighRob]

According to the Wake County tax site, Kimbrell's own their building.

I don't know how well they do there, and they do have another location in Tryon Hills Shopping Center, on the SW corner of 70/401 and Tryon with plenty of surface parking right in front of the store...

The property's tax value is only $787,611, with a $9k tax bill last year. Someone will have to throw a lot of money at them for the building before they move. They routinely park their delivery trucks on East Hargett at night and on the weekends. I don't know the legality of something that large parking on a neighborhood street. But it is between the federal government's lot and the Gordon Smith apartment block, so there are no neighbors there to complain.

I don't see how low-mid furniture does well, and I rarely see anyone go in or out. But they must be doing something right.

Well in that case, I certainly wouldn't want anyone to push them out. It's established downtown retail with a street-facing storefront and if they're doing well, then more power to them. I can definitely see a market for low-mid price furniture, since (as we've discussed here a million times) that not all downtown residents live in high-dollar condos. Now granted, not much of their products fall within my personal taste...but that's just me.

[Gard]

Article in N&O this morning about retail climing to the top of the downtown agenda for city leaders:

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/820238.html