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FSUViking9

Mall of America

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Thanks for those renderings...I hope to go to that mall someday. I can't believe how large the expansion is planned to be! :o

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My favorite line in the entire article:

"the Ghermezian family of West Edmonton, Alberta, has a history of not delivering on earlier, equally flamboyant promises."

I wrote a college paper on the mall way back in like 1990 -- half of what the Ghermezians promised back then, they never delivered -- and what they did deliver was scaled back or of lower quality then promised. The mall is really, really, really big but not near as unique and spectacular as what they orignally promised.

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Is that mall going to be bigger than the West Edmonton Mall?

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I believe so. It will encompass close to 9.0m sq ft when it's all said and done.

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I do not look forward to it.

The Mall Of America killed the retail in both towns. MOA already offers a huge glut of space that has stores appearing multiple times (such as Abercrombie). MOA isn't convenient for most people, and apart from one or two yearly trips, more people will shop at their local malls. I personally would rather go to Rosedale for what ends up amounting EXACT SAME STORES MOA has, and not have to put up with the horrible drive, too large of a building, and the general hassle it is to shop at the megamall.

The results speak for themselves, too. I read that the Marshall Field's in Southdale Mall makes more money than the Macy's at MOA. MOA simply isn't convenient. It's too big for its own good. And building an addition will only make things worse.

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What I like about MOA is that there's an amusement park, nightclubs and hotels all in one. If the mall is adjacent to the Minneapolis/St.Paul Airport, then wouldn't expansion be a little bit of a problem, depending on the space?

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Interstate 494 divides the airport and MOA. On the MOA there is enough space to expand, and the airport is expanding on their side of the freeway as well.

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What I like about MOA is that there's an amusement park, nightclubs and hotels all in one. If the mall is adjacent to the Minneapolis/St.Paul Airport, then wouldn't expansion be a little bit of a problem, depending on the space?

Actually, all the nightclubs have closed --except hooters.

I think they need to expand to keep their status as the biggest mall and to create a more unique experience. I also think they need to draw more stores that can not be found anywhere else in the midwest.

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I do not look forward to it.

The Mall Of America killed the retail in both towns. MOA already offers a huge glut of space that has stores appearing multiple times (such as Abercrombie). MOA isn't convenient for most people, and apart from one or two yearly trips, more people will shop at their local malls. I personally would rather go to Rosedale for what ends up amounting EXACT SAME STORES MOA has, and not have to put up with the horrible drive, too large of a building, and the general hassle it is to shop at the megamall.

The results speak for themselves, too. I read that the Marshall Field's in Southdale Mall makes more money than the Macy's at MOA. MOA simply isn't convenient. It's too big for its own good. And building an addition will only make things worse.

How can the MOA be both killing retail in the rest of the Twin cities--yet inconvenient and not drawing shoppers?

It seems to me that the MOA has hurt downtown Minneapolis and Southdale. Those areas used to get the most tourist shopping but now tourists go to the MOA. In addition, both downtown Minneapolis and southdale are pretty close to the MOA --so the mall probably attracts some local shoppers as well. Not only does the MOA draw shoppers from these areas, but it draws the newest stores to . Rosedale is so far away from the Mall it has been unaffected by the mall.

The MOA is a complete nighmare at Christmas or other school holidays. It can take 20 minutes just to get off the hwy exit. However, if you were to go there on a weekday or evening such as today (january 13) it will not be very busy. And no mall has closer parking. Even the worst spot in the ramps is a good spot.

And, let's be honest the mall does have some duplicate stores, but it has a lot of stroes that you can't find in the Twin cities otherwise. Nordstoms, Bloomingdales, H&M, Club monoco, Benneton, Nordstrom Rack just to name a few.

I'd like to believe that without the MOA these stores would have gone downtown, but the reality is that we might not even have these stores without the MOA.

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Nordstoms, Bloomingdales, H&M, Club monoco, Benneton, Nordstrom Rack just to name a few.

I'd like to believe that without the MOA these stores would have gone downtown, but the reality is that we might not even have these stores without the MOA.

I have to agree, I'm just glad we have those stores somewhere. Downtown would be better, IMO. In December, I hopped on the light rail and went to MOA and shopped at Sisley, Puma, Club Monaco and H&M. Then ran over to IKEA for a bit, then hopped the train back home. Not long ago, you couldn't do any of that.

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Boy, the rendered plan and the exterior perspective look like two completely different projects. The perspective seems the better of the two as it makes a more direct connection to the existing mall. The rendered plan makes it look like you have to walk a third of a mile through a skyway to get to phase two.

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I think those images are linked to the website.. and it looks like they've made a change to the plan

Interesting..

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Thanks for the explanation Jaden. I'm looking forward to seeing the MOA, after the expansion is completed.

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How can the MOA be both killing retail in the rest of the Twin cities--yet inconvenient and not drawing shoppers?

It seems to me that the MOA has hurt downtown Minneapolis and Southdale. Those areas used to get the most tourist shopping but now tourists go to the MOA. In addition, both downtown Minneapolis and southdale are pretty close to the MOA --so the mall probably attracts some local shoppers as well. Not only does the MOA draw shoppers from these areas, but it draws the newest stores to . Rosedale is so far away from the Mall it has been unaffected by the mall.

The MOA is a complete nighmare at Christmas or other school holidays. It can take 20 minutes just to get off the hwy exit. However, if you were to go there on a weekday or evening such as today (january 13) it will not be very busy. And no mall has closer parking. Even the worst spot in the ramps is a good spot.

And, let's be honest the mall does have some duplicate stores, but it has a lot of stroes that you can't find in the Twin cities otherwise. Nordstoms, Bloomingdales, H&M, Club monoco, Benneton, Nordstrom Rack just to name a few.

I'd like to believe that without the MOA these stores would have gone downtown, but the reality is that we might not even have these stores without the MOA.

Think about it. In St Paul it killed Galtier Plaza (there are other factors which hurt Galtier as well), the Minnesota World Trade Center's 3-level retail complex, and Town Square. In Minneapolis it killed City Center, Gavidae, and Riverplace.

Most people I know only visit it once or twice a year. There isn't much incentive for the average shopper to visit it over one of the local 'Dale malls (except for maybe Southdale). Most people's complaints around the mall seem to center around too many kids running around, and there being TOO MUCH.

And while you certainly are right about the stores it brought to the Twin Cities, Dayton's always was more than sufficient for people. I still believe that before the demise of Dayton's that it was the stronghold in Twin Cities departments stores, and offered just as good of an experience as Nordstrom.

Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather support local brands, and local stores. I'm one of those people who won't be caught dead shopping at Macy's. And I do all my furniture shopping at Gabbert's, not Ikea.

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Think about it. In St Paul it killed Galtier Plaza (there are other factors which hurt Galtier as well), the Minnesota World Trade Center's 3-level retail complex, and Town Square. In Minneapolis it killed City Center, Gavidae, and Riverplace.

Most people I know only visit it once or twice a year. There isn't much incentive for the average shopper to visit it over one of the local 'Dale malls (except for maybe Southdale).

Something about this isn't adding up. If the mall killed those six places in the two downtowns, then my interpretation is that those shoppers have been displaced into the MOA. But you're saying they're not going there, but more likely the Dale malls. So the Dales killed the downtown centers? Or is it most likely that neither the MOA or the Dales are to blame, but something more inherent about the downtown shopping centers. I think the latter.

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It is more that the suburban development model killed downtown retail. As people left the city, retail followed.

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Something about this isn't adding up. If the mall killed those six places in the two downtowns, then my interpretation is that those shoppers have been displaced into the MOA. But you're saying they're not going there, but more likely the Dale malls. So the Dales killed the downtown centers? Or is it most likely that neither the MOA or the Dales are to blame, but something more inherent about the downtown shopping centers. I think the latter.

Over 10 years later, the average middle-class shopper isn't going to MOA as much as they used to. A read an article a few months ago saying that when the mall opened you could definately see the much more "white middle class" look to the mall, and that it now has a much more "cosmopolitan" feel to it now. I remember when it opened and people were choosing the Mall of America over the Dales and over the downtowns.

The Dales (Rosedale at any rate) seemed to hang on, and the people did eventually come back.

I think that for most people (at least all of my friends and relatives) only make annual trips to the MOA. Local malls are more convenient and offer many of the same things that MOA offers. Unless I wanted to goto Ikea (yuck) or some other unique store that isn't anywhere else I would go to MOA.

Unfortunately, when the MOA opened and killed both downtowns retail, these stores fleed. Minneapolis has had better luck with a comeback than St Paul has had. But even then, I believe for many people that the annual trip to the Mpls. Dayton's/Marshall Field's was replaced by a visit to the MOA at Christmas. I don't believe that the Dales killed downtowns, but rather the MOA.

The fact that the smaller Marshall Field's in Southdale makes more money than the huge Macy's in the Mall of America proves my point that most people will want to shop somewhere that is close to them and is easy-in and easy-out. The Mall of America may have fine parking, but as a whole, a trip to the MOA certainly isn't convenient.

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I still think it's funny that Minneapolis is defined by the Mall of America. Not making fun, just think it's funny.

And yes, outside the city that's what people think, when they think MSP. Enjoy the snow.

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Oh please. Foo foo the MOA all you want, but the place attracts millions of people and brings in billions of dollars to the local economy. The new IKEA located at the MOA attracted over 3.5 million people alone last year. Also, don't forget that Minneapolis is also defined by its solid economy, standard of living, education, music scene, etc... The MOA is just another factor that makes the place very unique.

I would rather see Minneapolis defined by all of the above than what a lot of cities in the Midwest have going for them. For example, what do most associate Detroit with? How about Gary, Cleveland or St. Louis? Most think of horrible economies, loss of jobs, high unemployment rates, high crime, bad education systems, loss of population, etc, etc...

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The fact that the smaller Marshall Field's in Southdale makes more money than the huge Macy's in the Mall of America proves my point that most people will want to shop somewhere that is close to them and is easy-in and easy-out. The Mall of America may have fine parking, but as a whole, a trip to the MOA certainly isn't convenient.

I'm not surprised that Marshall Field's does better than Macy's. It has to do with the fact that people in the Twin Cities are very attached to Marshall Field's. It's a hometown pride thing I guess. I also think it has to do with the fact that the Macy's at the MOA seems to be a step below Marshall Field's.

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It was just announced that Bass Pro Shops is in the final stages of negotiating a lease for as much as 300,000 square feet of space. The store would be the second anchor at the next phase of the MOA. IKEA was the first.

"Retail observers said a Bass Pro store would make the Mall of America more appealing to male shoppers, some of whom are underwhelmed by the megamall's vast array of women's clothing shops and department stores.

"This should give men something to do while their wives shop," said Andrea Christenson, a vice president with Colliers, a real estate agency based in St. Louis. "Right now, when you walk through the mall, you rarely see men with bags in their hands.""

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"This should give men something to do while their wives shop," said Andrea Christenson,

:lol: I thought that's what the Food Court was for.

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Oh please. Foo foo the MOA all you want, but the place attracts millions of people and brings in billions of dollars to the local economy.

Agreed. Believe me, I'm no MOA fan, but you have to give it proper credit for what you mentioned. It seems that some of this thread was in the vein of suggesting a finite number of shoppers, and that its a power-play for business between downtowns, the suburbs and MOA. When actually MOA attracts a huge and totally separate entity of people. Most people come here for the specific purpose of visiting the megamall. If anything, the MOA and Lightrail may actually bring more shoppers to downtown. I recently was on the train with such people. I overheard them talking and they came from Kansas City for the sole purpose of MOA, but caught wind of the light rail to downtown and decided to venture out. I think they marched straight into Neiman Marcus after 10 steps of being on Nicollet Mall.

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