Greer to grow 50% in land area w/ annexation

[vicupstate]

Greer may already be the largest city in land area in the upstate now, but it is in a close battle with Greenville. If this annexation goes through, which is likely IMO, it would be significantly in front of all other upstate cities.

Will Greer be the principal city of the Upstate I-85 corridor in 20 years?

Greer seeking to annex over 13 square miles

[motonenterprises]

No. Greer still lacks many amenities that Greenville has. Plus Greer is not really larger than Greenville, Greenville just doesn't annex near as much as it should.

[vicupstate]

The question is premised on 20 years from now. Many of the things that Greer is missing now, might well be in place by then. There is still plenty of vacant land beyond even this latest annexation that Greer could take in. If in 20 years Greer is twice the land area of Greenville and exceeds the population by say 10,000 - 20,000, I think Greer could be a close rival to Gville and Sburg in terms of promenance (sp?). They already have the airport and BWM, of course Gville has the ICAR campus, so that may make all the difference for Gville.

What is probably more likely is that Greenville, Greer and Spartanburg might be considered Tri-cities that way Greensboro, High Point, Winston Salem are now.

Anyway, an idea to ponder.

[UrbanSoutherner]

If the City of Greer ended up with more people in its city proper than the City of Greenville (not a unlikely proposition over the long term), would the UA and MSA have to be renamed to give Greer the top billing? That would be a rather bad development in my opinion.

[teshadoh]

The only potential I see for Greer is to be the 'Arlington' of Dallas & Ft Worth for Greenville & Spartanburg.

But there are a few other cases where the suburb is technically larger than the primary city - Virginia Beach is the best example, it is larger than Norfolk so the census urban area is actually named for Virginia Beach. Being a demographic-phile, I hate it. But it will continue to be a growing reality for many cities nationally, & unfortunately for Greenville a liklihood. If it isn't Greer, it may be Easley, or possibly (depending on it's own economy) Anderson - if Anderson ever becomes a suburb.

[Topher1]

Unfortunately, if Greer outgrows Greenville, it probably will get top billing

Another example from here in central FL is Daytona Beach. The MSA was renamed Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormand Beach MSA in the 2003 definitions, even though Daytona Beach is clearly the "real" city in the metro. Deltona is merely an Orlando suburb (just single-family homes, not even shopping malls) that just happens to be in the same county as Daytona.

[btoy]

For those of you that saw the drawing that went along of the article. It should be noted that the city bounderies will not be completely filled in like the drawing shows. It will by a piece meal accumulation of connected properties.

This is because they are only takeing in those willing to be annexed, they have the power to force others in using the 75% tule but said they will not.

There are alot of anti Greer land owners in this area, but they tend to be the smaller land owners. They should be able to land the large land owners becuase they stand to benefit the most with the increased property values that will come with sewer service, but then even they may wait till they have developers willing to purchase the land before they join, this could take a long time. Though some will have to be enticed to come it so that others who want to may. Because all properties must be connected.

BTW, the unamed developer who instigated this is Carolina Holdings, it is no secret. They have a sign up for Crossroad Plaza and the corner of HWY 101 and Riedville Rd.

I forget the number for Riedville Rd. but that is going to be a huge growth corrider, if you drive down it you come out at Five Forks where Scuffletown and Woodruff Rd. merge, this would be a great link for Greer to Mauldin and Simpsonville.

[GvilleSC]

I just don't see it happening. With all that Greenville is experiencing right now... downtown, ICAR, Verdae, the infill... Greer will never be more than a suburb. Greenville is still a more prestigious address to have and will always be.

[motonenterprises]

I just don't see it happening. With all that Greenville is experiencing right now... downtown, ICAR, Verdae, the infill... Greer will never be more than a suburb.  Greenville is still a more prestigious address to have and will always be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree.

[vicupstate]

I don't think that it is destined that Greer will be the principal city in 20 years, but it is a possibility. Or it may happen, but not as soon as that. The Tri-cities concept that I described is even less far-fetched.

But do consider these items. First, Greer may not only be larger than Greenville in 20 years, it is centrally located between the current principal cities of Sburg and Gville. It is already the fastest growing city in the upstate (SC?).

That Baseball stadium that is going up downtown, almost went to Greer. At 5,000 seats, it could be too small in about oh, 20 years. After all, the last baseball stadium didn't last 20 years. The old Memorial Auditorium lasted less than 40 before it was replaced. The Bi-Lo Center is already 10 years old. It too may have out-lived it's usefulness in 25-30 years.

While certainly smaller than Greenville, Downtown Greer is going through it's own renaissance.

Of course, Greenville has history on it's side, since it has been the capital of the upstate for several decades, but also remember that SPARTANBURG was bigger than Greenville about 80 years ago.

Lastly, I remember in the early 1980's when North Charleston nearly equaled Charleston in population. N. Chas was gaining population and Charleston's had leveled off. It seemed that North Charleston had a better reputation than Charleston at the time. North Charleston had not even reached 10 years of existence, but if the trend had continued, it might very well be at least the co-principal city of the trident.

Of course, Mayor Riley led Charleston through a renaissance, and Chief Greenberg pushed all the crime out of Charleston into North Chas. But what if less effective leadership had been in place in Charleston during those years?

Greenville is experiencing it most prosperous time in history IMO, but that's no reason to be complacent.

[GvilleSC]

Vicupstate, you have some excellent points.

But that baseball stadium was more probably going to Mauldin, and there was a possibility of it going to Powdersville...

When you think about it... why would someone move to Greer? Because they have the intention of commuting to Greenville, more than likely, and want to escape the higher priced housing in Greenville...

If they want to do shopping-Greenville. If they want a night out on the town-Greenville. There's just something that's not appealing about spending the night at a strip mall. What I'm getting at is that Greer is way too dependent on Greenville and too close to actually make the tide turn its way. To get Greenville's shoppers, Greer would need the stores, but they're too close to get the stores as long as they are doing good business where they are... etc. I know we're just talking in theory about all of this, but it's not going to happen.

[vicupstate]

GvilleSC, your description of Greer is basically accurate, but with all the vacant land around Greer, there is no limit to what could go up in Greer. Suppose a "Concord Mills"-type mall wanted to build in the area in a decade or so. Greer might be the most logical location.

As cities grow bigger, they start to move beyond providing just basic services, and start to add non-essentials. North Chas. provides another example. Under it's first mayor, North Chas added population by providing just basic city services for a low tax rate. Later, under a second (and still serving) mayor, a coliseum, performing arts center and convention center were built by N. Chas.

Once Greer is 50,000 or more, extensive parks, arenas, ballparks etc. may be on their agenda. Greenville won't have the only budget large enough to handle regional attractions. Mauldin and Greer weren't able/willing to put up the money to get a ballpark this time, but that might be different when the tax base is much larger.

Just as it is difficult to imagine that Greer will be that big today, it was just as difficult 25 years ago to imagine DT Greenville would be in the state it is in now. It was posted in the Greenville thread that the Liberty building was offered for FREE (or for due taxes) to anyone that would take it about that time. A lot can change in 20-30 years, sometimes even a lot less time.

[Spartan]

Wonderful. That area is already getting kind of skanky. It used to be beautiful countryside. I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. They have already widened the roads. I am not sure I like the idea of a true mall located out there. What a miserable thought.

Greer will never be the principle city in the Upstate. It might be the largest one day, but only in population. The importance of Greenville and Spartanburg will not deminish because of this.

[hub-city]

Greer is simply benefiting from developers trying to entice both the Greenville and Spartanburg markets. Can't blame them. My problem is from an URBAN standpoint, Greer's annexation policy is flawed. I love growing from a city center providing ALL services and not just sewer. This policy of annexing down roads, doesn't make good community sense to me.

[Charleston native]

I really don't like the idea of Greer becoming the principal city of the region. Historically, it has always been a suburb of the Gville-Sburg area, and this annexation, while good news for the city of Greer, is bad news for the area as a whole. How can you unify communities with one common purpose if you continually expand other communities, which will continue to divide the area? If you don't have a central unifying city, you end up with an area that lacks identity, disjointed and unorganized urban areas (sprawl), and confusion for businesses that want to locate there.

From what my hometown experienced, their lack of foresight almost cost the city its importance and prestige in the area with the north city being founded and taking in residents. Thankfully, as vic pointed out, Mayor Riley became proactive in annexing land for Charleston, making it remain undeniably the largest city in the metro area. This has instilled the belief that many people consider N. Charleston to be Charleston, and hopefully this attitude will carry over to a merger of the 2 municipalities. Greenville needs to start getting aggressive in its annexations toward Greer...who knows, maybe a merger of those 2 cities could occur? Doubtful, I know, but possible?

[teshadoh]

I don't see Greer expanding into a larger suburb having a particularly negative impact on Greenville. Perhaps the tax base may be altered - Greenville's share of Greenville County taxes would decrease. But a larger population won't result in Greer being treated than anything else but a suburb.

Unless a really dumb person confuses Greer for being the primary city, but that would take a really dumb person.

[hub-city]

Most of the annexation is in Spartanburg county.

[MAJIKMAN]

Most of the annexation is in Spartanburg county.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you are right. I think that Greenville is kind of seeing the need to annex more. Someone on another post were saying that the city was thinking of annexing some land above Pleasntburg Dr. ( most of a paticular zip code ). Which why I see the city limits moving more up I-85 and down I-385. Because with Mauldin and Simpsonville growing from the south and Greer from the northeast that is going to put the eastside up for grabs in 10 to 15 years. I say it this way though. It is going to be like the old days when we heard GO WEST AND NORTH. You know we already are seeing some enterprising companies taking advantage of the head start. So do I see Greer growing into this giant behemoth? Definenitely not. I see it growing in relative size and speed like all the rest of the cities in this area. As in population wise anyway. And like teshadoh said it will probably be alot like more like Dallas-Ft Worth with Arlington in the middle. But not like Dallas-Ft Worth, Greenville( whether you believe or not ) still has room to grow. Thanx in part to Taylors.

[vicupstate]

^^ There would be a lot of resistance to annexation into Greenville (or Greer) by Taylors residents. Despite the incorporation vote, Taylors residents seem adamant against becoming part of either city.

The Wade Hampton fire district, which is between Taylors and Greenville, may be more receptive however. Especially if Greenville city will chip in to help fix the horrible flooding problems there. I wonder when/if this annexation rumor will become reality.

Just to give a little perspective, Greer is already as big as Greenville in land area, but most of it is not developed yet. Plus this proposed annexation is roughly equivalent to the entire city of Anderson.

[btoy]

I tried to do some research, hard to find anything on Reidville, which I suppose when poulation is 400+ that is the case.

All I foudn out is that it Incroprated in the 1990's weather that remains I do not know. BUt I will assume it does, I also could not find the article I thought I had seen talking about it reincorporating. Which I guess that is what they may have done in the 90's.

Either way, my point still stands, if poeple with in that area targerted for annexation by Greer want to by part of Reidville instead land out side that area will have to be annexed first so that when annexed it will be continuous.

[Spartan]

Reidville is still there. They annexed some land along 296 a few years ago. Reidville is not a significant municipality just as you suggested. Its boundaries would be much more likely to conflict with Duncan than Greer.

[gs3]

I don't see Greer expanding into a larger suburb having a particularly negative impact on Greenville. Perhaps the tax base may be altered - Greenville's share of Greenville County taxes would decrease. But a larger population won't result in Greer being treated than anything else but a suburb.

Unless a really dumb person confuses Greer for being the primary city, but that would take a really dumb person.

Excellent comment!