the903/Jefferson at Providence Place

[Frankie811]

The build / construction quality is completely poor and cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I expect the same at parcel 6, if it's ever built.

[Garris]

huh.

It says that its going strong right now, but quickly getting over-saturated. It also says that if you rent, expect your rent to go up over the next couple of years...

as more and more units are converted to condo, the rental market is going to get pretty tight around here...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't this an interesting bit of news and something of a wildcard in the whole condo-ization of downtown... Everyone here is right in that everything I've ever heard is that the Jefferson Apts have done well, and that yes, they are quite cheaply built.

A couple thoughts...

- Isn't the rental market already tight?

- This is probably a good thing (for now) for all the new downtown Chase downtown lofts, Avalon, and the if-ever-built Capitol Cove...

- Given the price range of the brand spanking new towers about to be built (from around $400,000-1 million), I would imagine the Jefferson Condos would have to be on the lower end of that... Maybe something more along the lines pricing-wise as the under-construction Eastside Commons, so maybe $260K-$500K? While hardly affordable housing, it would plug a hole in the current pricing availability of downtown. I can't imagine them asking more than that range, given the reputation of construction and the neighborhood (or lack thereof).

- I imagine if they price it fairly (like the Strand condos did, so maybe something in the above range), I bet they'd do quite well. If they get greedy and shoot for 110 and Westin range, I doubt they'll move...

- If the Jefferson units sell, how could a Hilton Tower ever fail?

Thoughts?

- Garris

[Garris]

Maybe a new thread should be used for this topic, but I'd like to revive the discussion of what makes a condo a luxury condo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure there is the need for such a thread, as you seemed to summarize the entire issue (or lack thereof) very well!

I agree with everything you said. It's a combination of location, exclusivity, quality, features, and "association." And it's being thrown around all too loosely these days, but this isn't only true in real estate, it's really true in all consumer products these days.

When a Hyundai can be bought with duel zone automatic climate control, ear-bleed stereo, leather, stability control, heated seats, and top-draw engineering for $20K, and most Chevy trunks sell with similar features for near 40K, what is a luxury car anymore besides the price and badge?

McMansions have all the design cues of previously "exclusive" homes, and even many "lower middle class" people I know (for lack of better terms) increasingly have "home theater rooms" and "weekend cabins in the woods" (very common in the Midwest).

So when the features and "stuff" starts to equalize out, when you can get hip cutting edge design home products cheap at Target, what is luxury?

I don't know... Very smart, grossly overpaid people at consumer goods companies the world over loose sleep every night doting on this topic...

In our current climate, Liam nails the situation in his post...

- Garris

[basachs]

My wife and I just bought a condo in the Armory District. It was never touted as "luxury" and if it was, we probably would have never looked at it since we are leery of that badge as well.

But the conversion of the house into condos was done very well. Workmanship quality was high and you can tell they just did not slap in the cheapest stainless appliances and granite they could and be done with it. Lots of details, both original and new. Yes we have the granite and stainless combo, but the higher end, rather than the lower.

In our search though we saw a lot of supposed "renovated" places that merely slapped together a new kitchen and stainless aplliances. One of them was still being done and had the diagram for the cabinetry from home depot still up. I think the cabinets were maple too like Liam's garage condos.

I think there are still a lot of quality condo conversions being done, interspered with a lot of cheapy ones.

[Cotuit]

I've merged the "903" and "Jefferson Sold" threads.

[Cotuit]

Maybe something more along the lines pricing-wise as the under-construction Eastside Commons, so maybe $260K-$500K?  While hardly affordable housing, it would plug a hole in the current pricing availability of downtown.  I can't imagine them asking more than that range, given the reputation of construction and the neighborhood (or lack thereof).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would think about these if they were sub-$275. The neighbourhood is going to improve, it's just a matter of when. And while not at the center of everything, it's at least at the edge. At $275 buyers will be able to see a profit when the neighbourhood improves. At plus $500, no way, no profit. The changing neighbourhood will bring with it units that are actually worth +$500 out of the box, making the Jefferson units look even worse then they are.

[Liamlunchtray]

In our search though we saw a lot of supposed "renovated" places that merely slapped together a new kitchen and stainless aplliances. One of them was still being done and had the diagram for the cabinetry from home depot still up. I think the cabinets were maple too like Liam's garage condos. 

I think there are still a lot of quality condo conversions being done, interspered with a lot of cheapy ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Out of curiosity, did you look at the condos in the yellow 6 family house on Dexter st that overlooks the park? That house is right behind mine. I checked it out during an Open House and it is the epitome of cheesey condo conversions. everything yells out "This is the cheapest Stainless Fridge they had at Home Depot"

[basachs]

Out of curiosity, did you look at the condos in the yellow 6 family house on Dexter st that overlooks the park? That house is right behind mine. I checked it out during an Open House and it is the epitome of cheesey condo conversions. everything yells out "This is the cheapest Stainless Fridge they had at Home Depot"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No we did not. Actually every condo conversion we did look at in the Armory were very nicely done. The ones that were extremely cheesy were on the East Side.

We looked at the John Arnold condos across the street from the Decatur. They were extremely well done but way too small. A shame, since the location is cool.

Just could not see paying east side prices for crap. Plus the Armory appealed to us a lot more, more our style.

[Garris]

I would think about these if they were sub-$275. The neighbourhood is going to improve, it's just a matter of when.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That could be a long when...

I'd probably think about it if it were sub-$275 as well. The problem is that sub-$275 is also the sweet spot of the entry level East Side condo market as well, including my own. I look at that neighborhood around Jefferson (or lack thereof) and my 'hood here in Wayland Sq and there's no contest. All the things I do here (walk to supermarkets, cleaners, CVS, restaurants, etc) is far more difficult to do there.

If they do sell for $300 and up, you are also now in the price range of entry level condo conversions on Benefit Street, which is just as close to everything as Jefferson, but with obviously a different environment...

It'll be interesting to see what happens here.

- Garris

[Cotuit]

I'd probably think about it if it were sub-$275 as well.  The problem is that sub-$275 is also the sweet spot of the entry level East Side condo market as well, including my own.  I look at that neighborhood around Jefferson (or lack thereof) and my 'hood here in Wayland Sq and there's no contest.  All the things I do here (walk to supermarkets, cleaners, CVS, restaurants, etc) is far more difficult to do there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The neighborhood around Wayland Square is undeniably better, but it's not walkable to the train station, which is a key feature of Downcity condos. It's also more walkable to Downcity nightlife, though I'd be loathe to walk under the mall and along the Promenade at 1-2am after the bars close as the area is now.

Wayland Square would be fine for me to get to work, but my boyfriend works Downcity, so he wouldn't like no longer being within easy walking distance to work, which would make Jefferson more attractive to us personally. If I were a typical car in the garage type person, Wayland Square would be a no-brainer over Jefferson.

But the investment potential in that neighbourhood at $275 would be attractive. Redevloping the Produce Warehouse alone (which seems inevitable, but could always derail at the last minute) would add significant value to the area.

[Frankie811]

Y'all remember the Silver Top Diner that use to sit where the Jefferson is now?

http://www.projo.com/blackstone/content/pr...0.1c5cf349.html

[Frankie811]

http://www.pbn.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/117009

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...03.8ab30bd.html

[Frankie811]

Joe Paolino will hold a news conference tomorrow to announce this project and possibly another.

[Garris]

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...03.8ab30bd.html

Interesting that they're apparently looking to "get the jump" on the bigger developments. The price range seems right, though, in the window we all were hypothesizing before. I imagine that as long as the prices stay closer to $200K than $450K, they'll do OK. Oh, and interesting that the luxury "conversion" here consists of exactly the granite and marble countertops were were all suspecting. If they also said "stainless steal appliances," it would have completed the luxury trifecta.

- Garris

[provid]

" "I think the amenities match up to anything you see in Providence and anything you will see," he said. "

Yeah...right...those basic ( used ) white appliances are very high class

[basachs]

So what makes a "luxury" condo. I think we all have talked about the qualities that are nice but dont make it luxurious. Setting aside views and location, what is it about the interior of a condo that is luxurious?

If the jefferson apts are as cheaply made as others have indicated, wonder if the counters can support the granite tops?

[CtownMikey]

I dont like this project at all.. it's almost as if Paolino is just flipping off the other three projects and saying "i'm done first!"

BUT as long as it does no harm to the 3 BIG projects right now, then it's cool.

[matt]

So what makes a "luxury" condo. I think we all have talked about the qualities that are nice but dont make it luxurious. Setting aside views and location, what is it about the interior of a condo that is luxurious?

If the jefferson apts are as cheaply made as others have indicated, wonder if the counters can support the granite tops?

A fine point. I had a friend who lived in one of the first floor apts and frequently complained of the noise that so easily traveled into her appartment from those above.

[provid]

We are not only talking about a lack of luxury but the fact two or three people have already lived in these units. Basically reading this it sounds as if they want to sell these units while trying not to spend any money to improve.

"We can sell them now," Paolino said. "People don't have to wait through a two-year construction period."

I think the traslation of that line would go something like "we are cheap as hell"

[Liamlunchtray]

If the jefferson apts are as cheaply made as others have indicated, wonder if the counters can support the granite tops?

Hey, I just redid my kitchen in Ikea cabinets and they are handling my 1 1/2" soapstone counters no sweat!

Bring on the Prefab Chinese Granite Slabs!!!! Paolino will toss so much granite and stainless into these tediously bland college dorm-esque apartments that you will just want to throw up. Its gonna be awesome. And luxurious. Luxuriously Awesome.

[Recchia]

I don't know about the inside of the Jefferson apartments, but from what I've seen from the outside, they just look, I don't know, so damn fake. It's like a suburban apartment complex or senior citizens housing in disguise as real urban walk-ups. The streetfront has nice stoops, etc., yet nobody is EVER on them, and it seems like everyone that lives there drives up, parks in the garage in the middle and then enters through the back entrances. There's no street life at all, just fake stoops. It wouldn't surprise me if the the windows on the street weren't even real, and if the front doors were just painted on and didn't even really exist.

Kinda looks like something out of the movie Dick Tracy to me.

[Garris]

Bring on the Prefab Chinese Granite Slabs!!!! Paolino will toss so much granite and stainless into these tediously bland college dorm-esque apartments that you will just want to throw up. Its gonna be awesome. And luxurious. Luxuriously Awesome.

Thanks for the laugh this provided . I doubt this will hurt the "big three" at all, as this is a full price class down from the condos under construction. I can't see the person considering the 30th flr of 110 saying, "Damn, I just can't wait until '07! I'm going to just buy that 903 unit right now..."

Also, save for the sold out Strand condos, these are the only condos in this price range in downtown right now, for better or worse. Seen as a twisted positive, it does offer downtown living to a group that thus far would not have been able to afford it, and it does get more homeowners downtown faster than otherwise would have been the case. I hope those looking at 903, though bargain hard...

As for basachs question as what defines luxury? We've discussed this before. I think the definition is in flux, and people are paid a ton of money in the marketing industries to do nothing else but figure this out... Look at the automotive industry. You can even now buy Hyundais, Chevys, and Kias for 19K with leather, power everything, airbags everywhere, automatic AC, navigation systems, excellent quality, and top draw engineering. What, then, is a luxury car?

The same is true in housing. Places like 110, the Westin condos, and various Boston condos seem to be upping the luxury ante with services, rather than "stuff." This seems to be in evolution. We'll see!

- Garris

[Garris]

I don't know about the inside of the Jefferson apartments, but from what I've seen from the outside, they just look, I don't know, so damn fake. It's like a suburban apartment complex or senior citizens housing in disguise as real urban walk-ups. The streetfront has nice stoops, etc., yet nobody is EVER on them, and it seems like everyone that lives there drives up, parks in the garage in the middle and then enters through the back entrances.

It is somewhat "fake" as you describe. It's a more institutional type of development meant to evoke the architecture and urban life of times past. It's "themed." There's no "streetlife" there because there are no authentic aspects of the design that promote it.

I don't understand why true townhouses or rowhouses haven't taken off in Providence like they have in Boston or Philly. Even New Haven has them in some places.

This also brings up the issue that I'm not sure what the true, "authentic" urban architecture of America in the 21st century really is. Most of it seems "retro" themed, looking back to America's urban golden age. I don't know what modern urban really is...

- Garris

[CtownMikey]

Speaking of the strand condos.. I was at Diesel last night around 2:30 a.m. and the music was sooo loud. Even from outside. I wonder if the building can actually mute those sounds and buff any vibrations