the903/Jefferson at Providence Place

[eltron]

Actually the amenties at the903 are the key problem I have with it. It's all this stuff I would be paying for (in the purchase price) but never really use.

Structured Parking: I don't own a car, and don't plan on owning one

Movie Theatre: Neat, but how often will I use it? Never.

Fitness Center: Be serious, you could put little monitors with porn playing on the treadmill and hand feed me Ben & Jerry's, it ain't gonna make me work out.

Mailroom: I've made it through 31 years without one, I think I can continue to handle my own mail.

Concierge: Nice for security, but really just another person I need to tip at Christmas.

Club House: I grew up on Cape Cod, but I've never spent anytime in a Club House. I thought the whole point of being in the 'center' was that I could easily get out and enjoy the city.

Business Center: I have a computer at home (two actually) and one at work, I need a Business Center for...?

Two bathrooms: Great, now I have two bathrooms to clean, what do I need two bathrooms for, one for poopy and one for pee pee?

Granite anything: Call me when there are diamond countertops, it's a rock, settle down people.

Fireplace: Stoopid, and the units I saw with fireplaces I thought the fireplaces were ugly, and took up too much space. We couldn't figure out where the TV would go in the living room of one unit because this stupid ugly fireplace was taking up a whole wall.

Oh true, I'd really like a crack house someday, I'm not at a point now where I can spend time or money fixing a place up properly. But the luxury nonsense needs to stop. Call it historic, highlight the detail... whatever, just stop calling granite a luxury. They put granite countertops in on Trading bloody Spaces for f's sake!

well done!

the most truth on the board in ages...

[brick]

I think a lot of you guys that are pooh-pooh'ing this project are missing out on the fact that you need to have housing that appeals to the young urban demographic to fuel a cities economy and keep it lively. I'm talking about the people that are 5-7 years out of college, starting to settle down, but are still more concerned with getting out on a Friday night than about the school system. This is a highly desirable demographic for a city as they tend to contribute substantially to the tax base without using a lot of the resources (medical, schooling, etc.) Those people do not have the means to afford the higher end places. You can't have every place be true luxury or whatever that just caters to empty nesters and the super rich.

Yeah, I know the luxury moniker is well overused at this point, but it has been this way for at least the last ten years.

As far as the actual counters, one word of warning if you do not trust the builders. Before you use the counters make sure you seal them and then maintain them. IMO they would be better off going with Corian or another solid surface as my guess is that most people will not properly care for their granite or marble and in 4-5 years it is going to look like complete crap.

[BBascule]

The 903 marketing is kind of confusing. The logo looks like a telephone keypad so when I first saw 903 I thought it was an area code. I was thinking "where the hell is area code 903?" lol

I guess don't fall into that sophisticated market they're after.

Plus I prefer to live in something that isn't made of particle board!

[provid]

I would agree with you brick however I have lived at the 903 off and on for months and I now live in the heart of downtown. I can tell you from experience that lack of quality the 903 consist of and the fact it is not in the center of downtown. I think that allows for good prospective.

I think a lot of you guys that are pooh-pooh'ing this project are missing out on the fact that you need to have housing that appeals to the young urban demographic to fuel a cities economy and keep it lively. I'm talking about the people that are 5-7 years out of college, starting to settle down, but are still more concerned with getting out on a Friday night than about the school system. This is a highly desirable demographic for a city as they tend to contribute substantially to the tax base without using a lot of the resources (medical, schooling, etc.) Those people do not have the means to afford the higher end places. You can't have every place be true luxury or whatever that just caters to empty nesters and the super rich.

Yeah, I know the luxury moniker is well overused at this point, but it has been this way for at least the last ten years.

As far as the actual counters, one word of warning if you do not trust the builders. Before you use the counters make sure you seal them and then maintain them. IMO they would be better off going with Corian or another solid surface as my guess is that most people will not properly care for their granite or marble and in 4-5 years it is going to look like complete crap.

[Garris]

my guess is that most people will not properly care for their granite or marble and in 4-5 years it is going to look like complete crap.

Not having any "luxury" granite or marble countertops, this isn't a problem for me, but just for educational purposes, how exactly is one supposed to care for a granite or marble countertop?

- Garris

[brick]

Not having any "luxury" granite or marble countertops, this isn't a problem for me, but just for educational purposes, how exactly is one supposed to care for a granite or marble countertop?

- Garris

The most important part is making sure it is sealed after installation and then regularly afterward. Granite has nature fissures which you don't want to have common household fluids (particularly oils) get into. Also, because it is a natural surface, you can etch it if you use highly acidic cleansers. Mild soap and warm water is all you should ever have to use.

It's not hard, certainly easier to maintain than a laminate top, but obviously much more permanent if there is damage.

[Liamlunchtray]

The most important part is making sure it is sealed after installation and then regularly afterward. Granite has nature fissures which you don't want to have common household fluids (particularly oils) get into. Also, because it is a natural surface, you can etch it if you use highly acidic cleansers. Mild soap and warm water is all you should ever have to use.

It's not hard, certainly easier to maintain than a laminate top, but obviously much more permanent if there is damage.

(continuing the OT posting)

This is why I love our Soapstone counters. They cannot stain and do not need to be sealed. They scratch easily, but 2 mins with some 220grit sandpaper and then a quick run of mineral oil and they look good as new.

[Cotuit]

I think a lot of you guys that are pooh-pooh'ing this project are missing out on the fact that you need to have housing that appeals to the young urban demographic to fuel a cities economy and keep it lively. I'm talking about the people that are 5-7 years out of college, starting to settle down, but are still more concerned with getting out on a Friday night than about the school system. This is a highly desirable demographic for a city as they tend to contribute substantially to the tax base without using a lot of the resources (medical, schooling, etc.) Those people do not have the means to afford the higher end places. You can't have every place be true luxury or whatever that just caters to empty nesters and the super rich.

Yes, if I were to buy at the903 (which I don't think I will), I would be counting on those 25-35 year olds (a group which I happily still belong to) to buy me out when I decided it was time to move. Unfortunately, I think they are upmarketing this out of reach of most of those people.

Plus, look at my list of ammenities and how I don't need them. That's not just me, that's any 25-35 year old who should be interested in being in "the center" not in a self-contained complex. Strip away the superfluous ammentities and drop the price, and we'd see a sales rush like we saw at The Strand going on here. Unfortunately they are trying to line themselves up with the likes of OneTen, The Westin, and Waterplace, and they simply aren't in that league and are pricing out the very people who would be their customers in the process.

[TheAnk]

I'd like these amenities.. They are similar to what you would find in a lux downtown Boston condo.. I also belong to the 25-35 set.. I live in Fruit Hill now, but park @ The 903 every day and walk to the train station.. Its a 5 minute walk.. I think its a pretty good location, and the price is under 200k for these, right? If they accent the river better and the Tourtellot becomes some sort of retail/eatery it will be perfect.. I've never seen the inside, but even before I knew about JP I wanted to live there for some reason.. Of course, I wouldn't buy a unit, but I understand the amenities.. A concierge would be nice.. A gym too.. Covered, guarded parking, awesome..

[Cotuit]

200k for these, right?

Starting at $195 for a 1-bed. From what i understand.

[Garris]

Starting at $195 for a 1-bed. From what i understand.

For those amenities, that's actually not terrible. Equal to or cheaper than many East Side 1 br condos without all the amenities...

- Garris

[brick]

Yes, if I were to buy at the903 (which I don't think I will), I would be counting on those 25-35 year olds (a group which I happily still belong to) to buy me out when I decided it was time to move. Unfortunately, I think they are upmarketing this out of reach of most of those people.

Plus, look at my list of ammenities and how I don't need them. That's not just me, that's any 25-35 year old who should be interested in being in "the center" not in a self-contained complex. Strip away the superfluous ammentities and drop the price, and we'd see a sales rush like we saw at The Strand going on here. Unfortunately they are trying to line themselves up with the likes of OneTen, The Westin, and Waterplace, and they simply aren't in that league and are pricing out the very people who would be their customers in the process.

I thought the 903 was going to be priced starting around $190K? The other developments start in the low 400's, don't they? That's a pretty significant price point difference. Looking around at other condo prices in Providence, it seems like a pretty good deal. Also, if Olneyville develops and the Woonasquatucket becomes more desirable, you should see some appreciation which I think is one of the risks of the new places.

The condo market is unfortunately pretty crazy and has been for a while. I remember way back in 2000 I was looking at buying a place in Corliss Landing for about $165. I went abroad for the year, and when I came back they were over $200...and that was before the 195 move got finalized. It would be nice if more places like The Strand went up, but unfortunately it is hard for a developer to purchase properties and still make a profit at those prices, even if they don't do much to upgrade. Even at the Strand, you figure $2.5 MM for 20 units is $125K per unit. If they also had to pay to acquire the property, it would be almost impossible to get ther numbers to work.

[Cotuit]

I thought the 903 was going to be priced starting around $190K?

The person who showed us around last week was not a sales associate, so he could not give us solid quotes on the units. But it seemed that $195k was the rock bottom price on a very limited number of units (probably if you signed on before they slapped in the granite and marble). They quickly go up above $300k.

I think the prices are good considering the market, and considering the potential of the neighbourhood and the potential for return on the investment. However, considering the quality of construction, the size of the units, and the current state of the neighbourhood, it's a tough sell. They're sinking a lot of money into granite counter-tops and marketing, they might have done better to sell as is and allowed the tenants to do their own granite or what-have-you (personally, I'd rather have stainless steel counters or soapstone or something other than granite). I believe you can get in early, and choose your own materials for the reno.

[TheAnk]

I wonder what Rising Sun would sell for if those condo-ized.. Those are very, very nice, and that surrounding hood is getting even better by the day... You can actually drive down Atwells/Valley/Delaine/Manton and quite possibly NOT see a drug addict or hooker now.. Its quite remarkable..

[Cotuit]

Eagle Square was advertising units starting at $185 I believe a year ago, and the ads quickly progessed up to around $235 I believe.

Eagle Square is now sold out from what I understand. With the trolleys going to 20 minute headways in January, Eagle Square and Rising Sun have suddenly become quite unattractive to carless me.

[TheAnk]

Eagle Square was advertising units starting at $185 I believe a year ago, and the ads quickly progessed up to around $235 I believe.

Eagle Square is now sold out from what I understand. With the trolleys going to 20 minute headways in January, Eagle Square and Rising Sun have suddenly become quite unattractive to carless me.

You mean the trolley runs every 20 minutes? what was it before/ is it now?

[Cotuit]

You mean the trolley runs every 20 minutes? what was it before/ is it now?

It will be 20 in January (or December, I can't remember). It was 10, then 15. However in practice, it runs anywhere from 1 minute to 40 minute headways now, so moving to 20 won't really matter, I gave up on the damn thing after the fare increase, I just walk.

[Garris]

The person who showed us around last week was not a sales associate, so he could not give us solid quotes on the units. But it seemed that $195k was the rock bottom price on a very limited number of units (probably if you signed on before they slapped in the granite and marble). They quickly go up above $300k.

One interesting question is what the condo association fee will be. One often not discussed aspect of these "amenity rich" condos is that they have nosebleed inducing condo fees. That fantastic Boston Globe article on the hotel based condos you linked to several months back Cotuit (do you still have it?) discussed that in great detail.

- Garris

[brick]

There is definitely a carriage before the horse aspect to public transportation. You need ridership in order to jusitfy a good PT system, but you can't get ridership until it is in place.

Like would Olneyville be better if there was good transport into and out of the city? Or would it just be stale since everyone would drive their cars anyway?

Maybe Providence could put in public transportation and pay for it with a center city car tax like they do in London!

[markOne]

I think a lot of you guys that are pooh-pooh'ing this project are missing out on the fact that you need to have housing that appeals to the young urban demographic to fuel a cities economy and keep it lively. I'm talking about the people that are 5-7 years out of college, starting to settle down, but are still more concerned with getting out on a Friday night than about the school system. This is a highly desirable demographic for a city as they tend to contribute substantially to the tax base without using a lot of the resources (medical, schooling, etc.) Those people do not have the means to afford the higher end places. You can't have every place be true luxury or whatever that just caters to empty nesters and the super rich.

This is a very good point. Most of the boards mention the need for a way to retain/attract 25-35 yr olds (a demographic I have just recently moved beyond). The prices at the 903 are good but I still think it will be a bit of a hard sell. Even though I live in Providence and I know my way around, the 903 still seems cut off from the rest of the city. I know I can walk from there to Down City, to the mall, to the Hill, but it FEELS detached.

It is almost like the 903 is on an island. The only ways downtown are through the mall or over Federal Hill. The river walk ends at Water Place Park instead of flowing through the mall and along promenade. Changing that will be hard given that the train tracks go over the river while it goes through the mall but there should be a way to make that an attractive, well lit, safe feeling walk. On the South side refinishing the old produce building will help but it still won

[Frankie811]

-Mark

PS Does anyone else think of WRIU every time they see a 903 add?

No, I never did. I think they could have come up with a better name for the complex, The Promenade or Promenade Landing. If their address was 903 Providence Place instead of 1000 then I could see it. Maybe we can nickname it 1PP.

[Liamlunchtray]

PS Does anyone else think of WRIU every time they see a 903 add?

I did a radio show ar WRIU for a good 5 or 6 years. I think of it every time I see one of those goofy billboards.

[markOne]

I did a radio show ar WRIU for a good 5 or 6 years. I think of it every time I see one of those goofy billboards.

I thought that was you. I thought you used to be Liam Lunch Box though (my memory is probably slipping). I was your program director when you and Kevin first started out.

-Mark

[Liamlunchtray]

I thought that was you. I thought you used to be Liam Lunch Box though (my memory is probably slipping). I was your program director when you and Kevin first started out.

-Mark

Ha!

[provid]

So I attended The 903 celebration party last night and also took a tour of a few “newly renovated” units. The high-end units aka high price units have new black cheap marble countertops in the kitchen and fake stone kitchen/bathroom floors and countertops. The low to mid range *cough $200,000* units have new kitchen counter tops and bathroom floors. The kitchens still have the same extremely cheap and nasty linoleum floors (I was shocked). All of the units are almost unchanged and show abuse from the people before including shoes makes on doors, walls, bathroom tubs look used etc. The hallways, lobby space on each floor, party room, main office (besides some yellow paint ) are all untouched.

My opinion: You would be foolish to buy at the 903. Prices are horribly high for the value. The units are cheap and the building was constructed dreadfully (layout and quality)

I expect the units will have terrible resale value unless the whole building burns or falls down. ( 100% timber construction )