IN PROGRESS: Front Street @ Adriaen's Landing

[MadVlad]

A few links:

NY Times

NY Times 2

[spatulashack]

Heard there was a breakthrough today at City Hall. Some sort of announcement, and it will be positive, will be made on Friday.

This wasn't quite the announcement I was looking for:

Front Street `This Close'

Although Cicchetti said the talks were going well, he said the deal would not be done by Friday - the day beyond which Gov. M. Jodi Rell said she did not want the Capital City Economic Development Authority to go.

"The city has done every possible thing it can do," said Matt Hennessy, chief of staff to Mayor Eddie A. Perez, adding that the mayor will recommend that the city council approve the funding as soon as he gets confirmation that the state has cemented a deal. "He needs to hear from the [state] that this deal is ready to go."

Nitkin could not be reached for comment.

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-ctfro...headlines-local

This project has been a mess from day one. And even after an agreement over money is reached I have a feeling the city and Nitkin will start haggling over the placement and design of the buildings. Mark my words, the Science Center will open before this thing even begins construction.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Cotuit

[ctman]

This project has been a mess from day one. And even after an agreement over money is reached I have a feeling the city and Nitkin will start haggling over the placement and design of the buildings. Mark my words, the Science Center will open before this thing even begins construction.

I wouldn't be suprised if the city uses the site ' temporarily' for parking - at this point nothing suprises me with this pipe dream of a project. There are other, much more desireable, lots to develop downtown that would at least get foot traffic from the 9-5 set. This project just furthers the perception that hartford cannot handle large scale privately financed projects. Nitkin stands to reap huge rewards if the development is a success, however only suffer minor losses if it is not, and he, along with every other developer the state/city have tried to work with want to bear less of the almost non existent risk inherent in the deals presented to them! Why does hartford continue to pour money into projects like this? Remember when they did an audit of the companies that they had on a list that had 'expressed interest' in leasing space, and they found out most if it was B.S.? most of the companies hadn't even heard of the project! There has not been 1 large, privately financed project in the city for almost 20 years. is hartford considered that bad of an investment? yes northland has done some development, however, it has been to this point heavily subsidised by the state. there is no way hartford 21 would have been built if not for rowland's 6 piliars, absolutely not. that does not mean it isn't a good project or that i am not happy it got built - i am very happy! Of course something will probably get built, like the article says, the city/state have poured way to much money into it not to have SOMETHING. like everything else, it will probably be a scaled back, half-a$$ed, phantom of what it should be.

[Carter711]

Front Street's Tight Bind

http://www.courant.com/business/hc-haar091...tility-business

[beerbeer]

Just build the darn thiing and include enough housing to keep the street lively. Then move on.

[drc72]

If this is to ever get done, we need Larry G involved!!!!

[Luca Brasi]

Hartford officials insist projects like this take time. In the mean time, other smaller cities have built their projects. A history of the Front Street mess. How embarrassing:

http://www.courant.com/business/columnists...hc-utility-home

[ctman987]

This is a disgrace. Hartford and the state need to show some leadership and get this project running. The residents of Connecticut read articles on the Front Street problems every week now and will think less and less of Hartford if projects like these cannot even be started.

Hartford could have thrived with a Toad's Place. People head over to the Webster all the time despite its locaton and people wouldve headed over to Toads Place. It wouldve been a hop skip and a jump for students like at the Sage Allen Building and a short drive for students on the main UHART campus and at Trinity.

[drc72]

Unbeliavable!!! Toad s would of been a homerun for Front street. Why am I not surprized it didn't happen?????

[Carter711]

Here's the website for the Trenton development. I'm not sure how close it is to what's proposed for Front St.

http://www.performatrenton.com/performa_003.htm

I'm stunned this is going in to Trenton, which is still a very rough city.

[HeartbeatHead]

i hate front st

[JimSawhill]

This is what I heard: Arnold Chase I think owned it, and the city was giving him crap about something. He threatened to knock the building down and leave it a parking lot, they told him he couldn't do that, and a month later he knocked it down. This could be an absolutely false story, but it's what I heard.

MadVlad:

You are wrong. The Connecticut World Trade Center was going to be built on the site of the Parkview Hilton. The Hilton was looking its age, so Arnold was going to implode it. Unfortunatly, the building was imploded, but soon the CWTC plans were abandoned.

Hartford torn down buildings, but I hope when people are proposing a new building -- they'll make sure the plans are in place. Too many scars!!

JimS

[redbaron]

Here's the website for the Trenton development. I'm not sure how close it is to what's proposed for Front St.

http://www.performatrenton.com/performa_003.htm

I'm stunned this is going in to Trenton, which is still a very rough city.

That is very similar to what is now on the table, a little over 100 rental units and 100,000 sqft restaurant/retail... This is a great location, close proximity to thousands of business people (with expendable income), close to the river, across the street from the convention center/science center, ESPN is on board with something, a ton of public funding... It perplexes me, if Trenton can get it done how is Hartford lagging so behind, with so much more potential??

[ctman987]

I quite honestly am outraged....looking at the names of places signed up for space in the Foundry such as Wet Willies (Trenton will be there first northeast location..the rest are in Georgia, South Carolina, Lousiana, Florida and Paris, France), B B Kings Club (with the other locations being in Memphis, LA and Nashville), John Wehners Village Door from Florida and not to mention Toads Place. This shows that with hard work places like these could have been attracted to Hartford. Right now these places are probably experimenting with the northeast and so probably will not open more venues until they see how Trenton does.

These places are not opening in NYC, Boston or even Providence but in Trenton...and they probably couldve been in Hartford

[redbaron]

I quite honestly am outraged....looking at the names of places signed up for space in the Foundry such as Wet Willies (Trenton will be there first northeast location..the rest are in Georgia, South Carolina, Lousiana, Florida and Paris, France), B B Kings Club (with the other locations being in Memphis, LA and Nashville), John Wehners Village Door from Florida and not to mention Toads Place. This shows that with hard work places like these could have been attracted to Hartford. Right now these places are probably experimenting with the northeast and so probably will not open more venues until they see how Trenton does.

These places are not opening in NYC, Boston or even Providence but in Trenton...and they probably couldve been in Hartford

Making Hartford a music destination would have been perfect... Something to set it apart from other Northeast cities... Not only Hip Hop (which I admit I don't care for but I still think is essential to our city), but jazz clubs, rock venues, whatever, would have been a perfect compliment. Kind of a music destination, something to get people into the city... That seriously pisses me off...

[grock]

People are signing up to open shops in plenty of places, but seem reluctant about Hartford. Some developers have said the city is hard to deal with.

It might be time for a change at city hall.

What has the current administration done for development?

1. Lost Mass Mutual to Enfield

2. Lost ING to Windsor

3. Lost WFSB to Rocky Hill

4. Lost conventions because of union stance

5. City seems to be obstacle to Front Street

6. Can't attract developers to build on surface parking lots

7. Criticized Governor Rell and the state gov't which has invested a billion downtown

We need a Giuliani type of mayor who will get things done.

[sp1dey]

People are signing up to open shops in plenty of places, but seem reluctant about Hartford. Some developers have said the city is hard to deal with.

It might be time for a change at city hall.

What has the current administration done for development?

1. Lost Mass Mutual to Enfield

2. Lost ING to Windsor

3. Lost WFSB to Rocky Hill

4. Lost conventions because of union stance

5. City seems to be obstacle to Front Street

6. Can't attract developers to build on surface parking lots

7. Criticized Governor Rell and the state gov't which has invested a billion downtown

We need a Giuliani type of mayor who will get things done.

I won't argue with many of those points, but 1 and 2 are not really negatives if you think of it outside the box. Phoenix sold their Enfield location to Mass Mutual, opening the door for them to move closer to their home office of Springfield. In the process, I'd argue a Hartford company, The Phoenix, got stronger and a stronger Hartford presence by reclaiming 100% of the Boat building (which many floors were being rented out). ING, is a European company with no ties to Hartford is at least staying in CT... their moving also opened the door to Travelers and Aetna (Hartford based companies) to strengthen their downtown presence. If I had to choose, I prefer to see Hartford become the Ins capitol again.

Number 4 just makes me mad, so I won't comment.

[ctman987]

Making Hartford a music destination would have been perfect... Something to set it apart from other Northeast cities... Not only Hip Hop (which I admit I don't care for but I still think is essential to our city), but jazz clubs, rock venues, whatever, would have been a perfect compliment. Kind of a music destination, something to get people into the city... That seriously pisses me off...

I started a new topic after reading in the Trinity newspaper that students travel to New Haven, Northampton and Providence for music venues because there is nothing besides the Webster in Hartford. Granted New Haven and Northampton are more "artsy" cities with more colleges and Providence is a bigger college town Harford could still attract more musical venues for the younger crowd

[MadVlad]

I started a new topic after reading in the Trinity newspaper that students travel to New Haven, Northampton and Providence for music venues because there is nothing besides the Webster in Hartford. Granted New Haven and Northampton are more "artsy" cities with more colleges and Providence is a bigger college town Harford could still attract more musical venues for the younger crowd

I guess the Meadows and Lena's doesn't count.....

[drc72]

i hate front st

Front Street would make such a great entertainment district. It's frustrating to see it sitting idle.

[ctman987]

I guess the Meadows and Lena's doesn't count.....

I know many people who go to the concerts at the Meadows and at the Civic Center (Hilary Duff, Dave Matthews, etc) but these music venues that Providence, New Haven and Northampton have feature smaller sometimes not as well known bands. They are not the biggest names in music but have real music. It is something that smaller cities have as opposed to bigger cities mostly. In NYC it would be really hard to support a place that didnt draw in big name bands but in smaller cities it works and so we should make it work in Hartford

[Jerry2]

The streotypical image of the average college kid is someone that lives with 1500 roommates and eats Ramen noodles for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This demographic spends all their money on school and leisure activities.Then there is the other demographic that comes from wealthier families with more disposable income that can afford to send their children to Yale, Brown, or Trinity. A city can incorporate both demographics with a large college population in the area and Pvd, New Haven, and Northhampton already have established areas where college kids can hang-out, relax, and unwind after a long day of study.( Ctman987, I don't think you even went to Thayer St. when you visited here)The closest resemblance to anything of the like in the entire metro Htfd. area would be West Hartford center....and how appealing is that to a group of college kids that want to hear some music, catch an independent film, or go to a vintage store on a dime. There is no cohesiveness on the main streets of Htfd to attract the "poor" college kids to the entertainment venues nor the retail to attract the wealthier kids with their disposable income.

If Front St. could somehow incorporate the 2 together, it would be a smashing success. You need to give the college kids in the area a reason not to hang out in West Hartford.....

[redbaron]

The streotypical image of the average college kid is someone that lives with 1500 roommates and eats Ramen noodles for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This demographic spends all their money on school and leisure activities.Then there is the other demographic that comes from wealthier families with more disposable income that can afford to send their children to Yale, Brown, or Trinity. A city can incorporate both demographics with a large college population in the area and Pvd, New Haven, and Northhampton already have established areas where college kids can hang-out, relax, and unwind after a long day of study.( Ctman987, I don't think you even went to Thayer St. when you visited here)The closest resemblance to anything of the like in the entire metro Htfd. area would be West Hartford center....and how appealing is that to a group of college kids that want to hear some music, catch an independent film, or go to a vintage store on a dime. There is no cohesiveness on the main streets of Htfd to attract the "poor" college kids to the entertainment venues nor the retail to attract the wealthier kids with their disposable income.

If Front St. could somehow incorporate the 2 together, it would be a smashing success. You need to give the college kids in the area a reason not to hang out in West Hartford.....

Not only college kids but young professionals like myself... Hartford has some great restaurants that I don't feel the need to go to West Hartford to dine anymore, but to shop on a weekend, enjoy a cappuccino (JoJo thanks for being open Sundays!!) hopefully Front street and any retail Northland is developing can accomplish that.

[MadVlad]

I know many people who go to the concerts at the Meadows and at the Civic Center (Hilary Duff, Dave Matthews, etc) but these music venues that Providence, New Haven and Northampton have feature smaller sometimes not as well known bands. They are not the biggest names in music but have real music. It is something that smaller cities have as opposed to bigger cities mostly. In NYC it would be really hard to support a place that didnt draw in big name bands but in smaller cities it works and so we should make it work in Hartford

Well, I think you're wrong on this one point: bigger cities do indeed have places where smaller bands can play, and they do well. You've heard of CBGB's haven't you? That place is definitely not huge. There are a ton of other places, like the Middle East in Boston (not sure if it's around anymore), every big city has places like that. Some places,like the former Anthrax in Norwalk, were just run by young people. There's nothing stopping younger people from renting out a place and getting smaller bands to play there. Is it more difficult downtown? Sure. One place I had found was a basement below where Pasti's was. Not sure if Pasti's used it at all, but it was empty, had a bar, and could handle small bands. In my memory I never knew of a place down there, but there it was in front of me. There also used to be a place on Asylum that was a basement, right near Main St, it had 2 or 3 names in the time I had gone there, one of them had something to do with a fish. Another: the Comet, the basement below the Diner used to be a dance club, very small, but a stage could be set up and it would do well for small acts. You just need someone that knows where to go, what they want, and have the gumption to put up their money to run it.

[ctman987]

The streotypical image of the average college kid is someone that lives with 1500 roommates and eats Ramen noodles for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This demographic spends all their money on school and leisure activities.Then there is the other demographic that comes from wealthier families with more disposable income that can afford to send their children to Yale, Brown, or Trinity. A city can incorporate both demographics with a large college population in the area and Pvd, New Haven, and Northhampton already have established areas where college kids can hang-out, relax, and unwind after a long day of study.( Ctman987, I don't think you even went to Thayer St. when you visited here)The closest resemblance to anything of the like in the entire metro Htfd. area would be West Hartford center....and how appealing is that to a group of college kids that want to hear some music, catch an independent film, or go to a vintage store on a dime. There is no cohesiveness on the main streets of Htfd to attract the "poor" college kids to the entertainment venues nor the retail to attract the wealthier kids with their disposable income.

If Front St. could somehow incorporate the 2 together, it would be a smashing success. You need to give the college kids in the area a reason not to hang out in West Hartford.....

This all brings up a great point that Hartford needs a place that attracts college students. Im a student in NYC so I dont frequent Providence or New Haven or Northampton so I cant talk for them...although I have visited New Haven hundreds of times since im from Hartford and know that New Haven is always filled with activity thanks to Yale, QU, SNHU, Albertus Magnus & UNH. Anyway the areas around Columbia University, Fordham University (both campuses), FIT, Manhattan College, CMSV, etc. do not cater especially to students. But in the city NYU is in Greenwich Village and the village caters to all college students...especially the NYU crowd. There are hundreds of restaurants, bars, clubs, theaters, movie theaters and more that are all filled with NYU students. The village has become one of the hottest areas in the city for the younger crowd. Hartford and yes even Providence, Northampton and New Haven do not have one huge school like NYU that has 40,000+ students who all obviously all need a place to go but nevertheless Providence, Northampton and New Haven have all made niches for there students and Hartford should do the same. The differance in Hartford I think is that we want the students downtown and we also cant forget that downtown is the city's center of business and is becoming a more expensive area with all these new condos and apartments. There is nothing wrong with this but we need to work to incorporate this all into downtown Hartford. For example downtown New Haven has lots of corporations but is not the major center of business that Hartford is so it works out for New Haven.

Well, I think you're wrong on this one point: bigger cities do indeed have places where smaller bands can play, and they do well. You've heard of CBGB's haven't you? That place is definitely not huge. There are a ton of other places, like the Middle East in Boston (not sure if it's around anymore), every big city has places like that. Some places,like the former Anthrax in Norwalk, were just run by young people. There's nothing stopping younger people from renting out a place and getting smaller bands to play there. Is it more difficult downtown? Sure. One place I had found was a basement below where Pasti's was. Not sure if Pasti's used it at all, but it was empty, had a bar, and could handle small bands. In my memory I never knew of a place down there, but there it was in front of me. There also used to be a place on Asylum that was a basement, right near Main St, it had 2 or 3 names in the time I had gone there, one of them had something to do with a fish. Another: the Comet, the basement below the Diner used to be a dance club, very small, but a stage could be set up and it would do well for small acts. You just need someone that knows where to go, what they want, and have the gumption to put up their money to run it.

When I meant bigger cities I meant like NYC....Hartford, Providence, etc. are all great smaller cities that can cash in on this other market for smaller bands. Im sure there are places for smaller music in NYC but it is a lot harder to find cheap space and advertise then it would be to go into Hartford and have everyone at UCONN, UHART, Trinity, etc. know about your music