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USC Upstate To Build Campus In Greenville!

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vicupstate Metropolitan Area

vicupstate

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While the financial aspects are important to consider, you cannot compare this potential campus to that of USC Union or something. This is almost guaranteed to make money.

Colleges do not "make money". Tuition does not begin to cover the cost of the facilities, faculty, maintenace, etc. that a college entails. All public colleges and universities are supported with tax dollars.

The problem is that our lowcountry-minded governor has recently agreed to give the upstate money (in this case, ICAR and Clemson). God forbid he put more money back into the state's economic engine in the form of a university that is clearly going to be successful.

For the record, Sanford also opposed expanding USC-Beaufort from a two-year to a four-year institution. Beaufort is about as LOW as the country gets. He has also opposed adding a Business program to USC-Sumter, that is already at USC-Columbia. He is not singling out the upstate.

I don't agree with everything that Sanford says or proposes, but he is right to question this. SC does have too many colleges for it's size. There is a lot of duplicity in college offerings statewide. There is a lot of parochial interests that get served first, without regard to the overall statewide perspective (or cost) in higher education.

That is why I support his proposal for a statewide Board of Regents.

The Greenville area is in need of a public four-year university, but there needs to be a conscience decision made by the state to pursue this course. It shouldn't be sneaked in by a couple of college boards (Tech and USC Upstate). Additionally, consolidation and/or elimination of other programs/offerings/campuses needs to be done in order to justify an expansion in higher education in Greenville.

The need for a "new" four year college in Greenville would not be so acute if the tuition rates statewide were not skyrocketing. This is a very important issue that the state needs to address and NOW. Of course, being that the legislature only responds to lawsuits and crisis situations, that won't happen for some time yet.

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Greenville City

Greenville

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The fact that we have USC campuses in places like Sumter, and two-year programs in places like Beaufort, tells you just how crazy it is that Greenville doesn't have a branch of some sort. The fact that Sanford was against expanding USC-Beaufort to a four-year school, and the fact that he didn't let USC-Sumter add a business program, does little to convince me that he is not somewhat biased against the upstate.

We're talking about starting a four-year school in the central city in the state's biggest metro area. We're not talking about USC Laurens, you know? The odds of this school being popular and successful are very good.

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RiverwoodCLT Burg

RiverwoodCLT

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If you look at UNC system in North Carolina, about every major city has a 4 year college. A city the size of Greenville, SC would have a 4 year state school. So what is the problem with Geenville having a 4 year school? Greenville, NC has one, and it is not as big as Greenville, SC.

For SC to grow, it is important for its major cities to have a good education system. Cities like Greenville sure pays enough taxes to support a school. The citzens of Greenvile should demand a school and get one.

:rolleyes:

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goodbye Metropolitan Area

goodbye

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I'm sure there will be some fire thrown around, if this development is stalled.

As far as Greenville needing a four-year college, we've got two (Furman U. and Bob Jones U.), plus the University Center (which offers several other State schools). Also, there are other small schools offering bachelor degrees in Greenville. Another you'd have to factor into the mix is Clemson, only a 30-45-minute drive to the West.

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Spartan Gigalopolis

Spartan

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Colleges do not "make money". Tuition does not begin to cover the cost of the facilities, faculty, maintenace, etc. that a college entails. All public colleges and universities are supported with tax dollars.

I've been a college student for quite a while, and I have a very different opinion on this. But that is getting off topic. :ph34r:

My point was that it will be successful.

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vicupstate Metropolitan Area

vicupstate

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The fact that we have USC campuses in places like Sumter, and two-year programs in places like Beaufort, tells you just how crazy it is that Greenville doesn't have a branch of some sort. The fact that Sanford was against expanding USC-Beaufort to a four-year school, and the fact that he didn't let USC-Sumter add a business program, does little to convince me that he is not somewhat biased against the upstate.

We're talking about starting a four-year school in the central city in the state's biggest metro area. We're not talking about USC Laurens, you know? The odds of this school being popular and successful are very good.

Having campuses at Sumter and Beaufort tells me that there is a lot of duplication and inefficency in our higher education system. Campuses and courses are built to satisfy local parochical interests and keep politicians in office. This is a very expensive and wasteful proposition. All NC schools are controlled by one board to eliminate these type of problems. That, coupled with greater support ($) from the legislature has allowed NC to offer tuition at a fraction of SC, while also providing several top ranked universities that SC school can't match.

Why do you think Sanford is biased against the upstate? Why should he be, the upstate supported him more than any region of the state in the election. Maybe, he just supports responsible spending for all of the state, regardless of who gets offended.

I don't doubt that the USC Upstate/Greenville campus will draw students. I did not question that. But you have to remember that the Spartanburg campus and Clemson are both less than 45 minutes away. Is it worth dividing the higher education pie still further by adding another four year institution? Doing so will merely put more pressure on tuition, and reduce the ability of ALL the state's schools to excel. Opening another 4 year school is a major and permanant commitment on the state's part. Such a decision deserves careful consideration, and should be made at the appropriate level (Higher Ed Commission, Legislature and Goverenor).

A couple of years back, Sanford proposed closing some of the tiny USC campuses (like USC-Union) and the legislature ignored him. Perhaps by allowing the Greenville campus to open, he can get the legislature to agree to off-set that expense by accepting his earlier proposal. That would be a win-win IMO.

I'm not going to get into any polititical arguments here, but I will just say that it has been very disturbing to watch this governor attempt to setback every new project in Greenville with an impact on the State. <_<

I don't know what he has attempted to set-back, except the renegociation with ICAR. The end result of that was saving many millions of dollars in taxpayer funding, while not affecting the ICAR in any negative way. Greenville is so conservative, but here is someone that actually cares about how tax money is spent, and everyone throws darts at him. Go figure.

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krazeeboi Gigalopolis

krazeeboi

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Also, to be fair to the governor, he's not saying that the Greenville campus SHOULDN'T be built, but only that doing so at this point in time is "questionable," and the reasons given are logical. Spartanburg simply beat Greenville to the punch in locating a USC campus. While I have no doubt that a USC-Greenville would be successful, you REALLY have to think if it makes sense to have a 4-yr. USC campus in both Spartanburg AND Greenville, which are located in populous, adjacent counties. At least the smaller USC campuses service largely rural areas.

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krazeeboi Gigalopolis

krazeeboi

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Here's an excerpt from a SC regional economic analysis (the link is posted in the thread "Taking our major cities to the next level" in the SC forum) that I think is important in regards to this discussion:

In terms of four-year institutions, South Carolina does indeed have a large number of postsecondary institutions. However, South Carolina, along with Alabama and Arizona, does not have any first-tier undergraduate national universities or liberal arts colleges. It is host to only three national second-tier institutions of higher education -- Clemson, Furman, and Wofford. In contrast, Virginia has three national first-tier higher education institutions (i.e. University of Virginia, William & Marry, Washington & Lee) and four second-tier universities and colleges (i.e. Virginia Tech, Hollins, Randolph Macon Women
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GvilleSC Megalopolis

GvilleSC

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I'm not going to get into any polititical arguments here, but I will just say that it has been very disturbing to watch this governor attempt to setback every new project in Greenville with an impact on the State. <_<

I'm not sure what things you are referring too, but Mr Sanford stalled the ICAR project because the deal wasn't very good. He forced it to wait and saved the state and Greenville a TON of money. He wasn't against the project, he was just smart and didn't want to get too over anxious and take the first bite when he knew it wasn't in our best interest. He has a good head on his shoulders...

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krazeeboi Gigalopolis

krazeeboi

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I'm not saying that it doesn't mean anything; it's just that I'm not sure where the criteria can be found, or even if there is an official criteria. At any rate, I'm sure some comparisons could be made between the schools cited in the analysis that would demonstrate some marked differences between our major universities and those of other states (particularly our neighbors).

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Spartan Gigalopolis

Spartan

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Oh I know what you meant. I just felt like something needed to be said ;)

I'm sure it has to do with professors and courses and average SAT scores and things like this. I had no idea Wofford was a 2nd tier school. Something must be good about the designation.

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DanRNC Burg

DanRNC

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The tier system is based on such things such as academic reputation (as determined by a nationwide faculty survey), student performance measures, endowments, class size, student to faculty ratio, etc. Although not perfect, it is a decent measure of college to college rankings. A lot of people make the claim that it is all based on a school's wealth which may be true to some point as wealthier schools can hire better faculty, reduce class size, and reduce the student to faculty ratio. The University of Texas-Austin, which has one of the largest endowments in the country, however is actually ranked as a second tier school so money alone cannot make the school top tier.

This ranking system does not really hold true for graduate schools though as they tend to vary according to program.

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Version70-8 Whistle-Stop

Version70-8

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Okay, I am confused. We all know that USC-Upstate is a regional campus of the main USC campus down in Columbia. So can anyone explain to me why USC-Upstate plans to have two separate locations here in the Upstate area? To me it would seem that a new location in Greenville should be just another site under the main system. The University Center is a nice facility with excellent opportunities for those interested in USC-Upstate to take classes offered by the university while avoiding the commute to Spartanburg. I mean, and really now, for those people who are not offered the courses they need at the "Center" they can still drive just a short distance to the Spartanburg campus. This proposed location in Greenville would even share Greenville Tech's library! Higher tuition is too high now as it is, especially with schools forced to increase tuition each year but yet we are supposed to support a brand new campus (when we can get the same benefits at the University Center right now) that we are not immediately in need of and freely spend millions in already strapped funds?

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krazeeboi Gigalopolis

krazeeboi

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Good points; I did not know about the University Center. I think Sanford is right to criticize this move from a fiscal point of view--not saying that it shouldn't be built, but that it should be questioned. I'm actually starting to lean towards not being in favor of it myself.

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