Civic Plaza 100 W. 4th St.

[yadkinv]

When is Phase I ever going to start, and I don't consider the 9 story luxury condo that is next door and almost complete as part of Civic Plaza just coincidentally adjacent?

[triadguy37]

When is Phase I ever going to start, and I don't consider the 9 story luxury condo that is next door and almost complete as part of Civic Plaza just coincidentally adjacent?

I toured one of the units at One Park Vista last week and I asked about Civic Plaza and the Park. I was told that Civic Plaza could not start until after the completion of One Park Vista. I am not sure if I buy that or not. I was thinking about purchasing a unit there, but I need to know that Civic Plaza is going to happen before I would invest there. I was told that One Park Vista had a firm completation date of July 1.

[yadkinv]

That's an interesting statement; one wonders why that's a requirement?

[Piedmont Airlines]

When is Phase I ever going to start, and I don't consider the 9 story luxury condo that is next door and almost complete as part of Civic Plaza just coincidentally adjacent?

According to Emporis Civic Plaza will be complete in 2009, but it does not give a start date. Also Emporis still says that the Pepper Building will be torn down to make way for Civic Plaza.

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=100wes...tonsalem-nc-usa

[JerseyBoy]

I believe the editor for the Winston-Salem portion of Emporis does not update the site as often as it should be. The current plans (see post #67) have the Pepper Building being saved with a possible expansion being built onto it. IMO I don't think we'll see construction start on Civic Plaza till early 2009 at the least.

[yadkinv]

Still, one wonders why such a delay in starting? Is it the depressed housing market, or something else? The longer the wait, the more expense, which could unfortunately cut some parts of the project.

[twincity]

Niemann wants incentives from the city, like Prim wanted for the ballpark.

[JerseyBoy]

Twincity hit the nail on the head. I believe it is because the city is tied up with the ballpark development at the moment and can't deal with two major projects at once. Also, I tend to think the incompetence of DWSP is a leading factor as well because this been proposed since the late 90's/early 00's and they have never agreed on a single design.

[JerseyBoy]

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2008/ap...r-civic-plaza1/

Kerry Avant will take over Civic Plaza. On April 8, 2008 (yes, I know I'm very late in posting this) DWSP announced that One Park Vista LLC would head the redevelopment that Niemann Capital was supposed to undertake. NC was asked by DWSP to stop work (umm, what work?) after it missed the set deadline to secure $90 million in funding. Avant has said that his proposal will look similar to Niemann's.

Personally, I'm very disappointed with this decision. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that DWSP is finally showing interest in this project, but the fact that they would choose a small-town developer, instead of THINKING BIG, is what irks me. This is the same developer who brought us Kinderton in Davie County and put stucco on the backside of One Park Vista. This was a perfect opportunity to bring in a developer, such as Novare, who knows what they're doing and can get things done.

[Piedmont Airlines]

I just hope this project doesn

[intcvlcphlga]

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2008/ap...r-civic-plaza1/

Kerry Avant will take over Civic Plaza. On April 8, 2008 (yes, I know I'm very late in posting this) DWSP announced that One Park Vista LLC would head the redevelopment that Niemann Capital was supposed to undertake. NC was asked by DWSP to stop work (umm, what work?) after it missed the set deadline to secure $90 million in funding. Avant has said that his proposal will look similar to Niemann's.

Personally, I'm very disappointed with this decision. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that DWSP is finally showing interest in this project, but the fact that they would choose a small-town developer, instead of THINKING BIG, is what irks me. This is the same developer who brought us Kinderton in Davie County and put stucco on the backside of One Park Vista. This was a perfect opportunity to bring in a developer, such as Novare, who knows what they're doing and can get things done.

I agree that this is a great opportunity to get a developer on board who has vision. Whether or not Avant is that developer remains to be seen, but in comparison to Niemann, Avant was able to get his project, One Park Vista built in a timely manner. The key is for Avant to hire a talented architect who knows Winston-Salem and the site, but who isn't mired in superficial discussions of style in place of thoughtful architecture. Niemann's architect, Davis from Raleigh didn't demonstrate that they have much vision and understanding of creating interesting urban architecture any more than any of Winston-Salem's architects have. Hopefully, Avant will take a risk on architecture rather than play it safe and create something truly inspiring for Civic Plaza. Fingers crossed...

[yadkinv]

Firstly, I think it's back to the original one building at 14 stories, but that was razing the Pepper Building, so maybe, just maybe, with preservation of the Pepper Building, and therefore, a smaller footprint, the height will be more than 14 - but I doubt it. Secondly, I think you can forget outside involvement now with innovative design because it bucks the local network, and it costs more money!

[JerseyBoy]

This week I had the pleasure of speaking to Jason Thiel while I was in the DWSP office. We discussed the new wave of urban living, a dense downtown core, and Civic Plaza. He believes that having a local developer, Kerry Avant, with deep pockets and community ties is a plus for Civic Plaza. Obviously, this is how a large majority of our projects have gotten proposed/built. I believe our first out of state developer is Struever with the PTRP project? I have mixed feelings on this issue. A developer who knows people and has the money to boot is a sign that the project will possibly end up completed. Yet, where I disagree with Jason is on the developer's past history. Kerry Avant was a co-developer of Kinderton, a suburban wasteland in Davie County, and the lead developer of One Park Vista (EIFS and faux architectural details, need I say more?). I'm sure Avant has nothing but good intentions for downtown, but I'm hesitant on letting this one man develop the rest of our city's "signature project." I explained to Jason the need to be visionary with this project and find a co-developer such as Novare or Cousins and an architect like Duda Paine or SOM. Realistically, I know they don't have the budget for this, but, in my opinion, I believe this is necessary to bring downtown back to the days when it was a destination.

[winston's finest]

I understand the desire to have more out of state developers to bring in new ideas but the movement toward a better downtown and development has to start from within. Once designers and developers see what we can do on our own, they will be more interested and want to bring new ideas and design elements.

I trust Avant and believe he will make civic plaza into something we can be proud of. One Park Vista is going to be a beautiful building and the stucco on the outside will provide much need variation to the many brick buildings around it. You see this in many other major cities.

Anyway, the city and DWSP are anxious to see this project come to life and was in need of someone they believe will be able to get the job done as well as provide much needed work for area contractors and companies.

[yadkinv]

I think (hope) you're right on this one. Let's hope so.

[JerseyBoy]

Expect to hear more about Civic Plaza in the next month or two. I learned at the W-S Chamber of Commerce Governmental Affairs meeting today that there is an upcoming meeting in One West Fourth where details will be disclosed. I'll keep everyone posted.

[JerseyBoy]

We need businesspeople like you to support the plans for the Downtown Civic Plaza. Successful completion of this project will make Winston-Salem a more attractive location for business expansion and relocation, will further advance our downtown revitalization efforts and help draw young, well-educated and highly skilled workers.

Join me at an information session for the Downtown Civic Plaza, held on

Tuesday, August 19, 2008

at 4:00 p.m.

in the Womble Carlyle Building

One West Fourth Street, 12th Floor

Development on the Plaza is making great strides but your support is needed to keep this project on track. New updates will be made public at Tuesday's meeting.

Count me there!

[triadguy37]

We need businesspeople like you to support the plans for the Downtown Civic Plaza. Successful completion of this project will make Winston-Salem a more attractive location for business expansion and relocation, will further advance our downtown revitalization efforts and help draw young, well-educated and highly skilled workers.

Join me at an information session for the Downtown Civic Plaza, held on

Tuesday, August 19, 2008

at 4:00 p.m.

in the Womble Carlyle Building

One West Fourth Street, 12th Floor

Development on the Plaza is making great strides but your support is needed to keep this project on track. New updates will be made public at Tuesday's meeting.

Count me there!

Is the meeting open to all?

[JerseyBoy]

I would tend to think so. From I was told, the main purpose of this meeting is to gain support from the business community/local employees.

[triadguy37]

I saw the preliminary drawings for Civic Plaza on the Fox8 news tonight. I was not impressed. It looked like a basic park with trees and green space and not very impressive compared to downtown Greensboro's 12 Million Center City Park. The plan also included renovation of the Pepper building and another building similiar to One Park Vista which will face One Park Vista with the Park between the two Vistas. Phase III will consists of a 12 story building which will sit beside the Pepper building. I think DWSP needs to look elsewhere. I am not impressed at all with this design. The developer is asking for help from the city and county for 6 Million to pay for the Park.

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/pages/Home/....1.1&sflg=1

[JerseyBoy]

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/pages/Home/...mp;pageId=1.1.1

Well...this is a shame.

What I like:

- Aggressive can-do attitude

- Park resembles Bryant Park

What I DON'T like:

- BORING!!!!! Unimaginative to say the least...

- No inclusion of sheriff's site

- One Park Vista twin

- Lowrise, 'nuff said

- Kerry, ever thought about thinking big?

This is Winston's chance to shine and create a wonderful mixed-use project with dazzling architecture that draws people. This is just a continuation of the good 'ole boy ways of developing that have plagued this city for too long. They'll be getting an earful from me tomorrow.

[suburban george3]

Well...this is a shame.

What I like:

- Aggressive can-do attitude

- Park resembles Bryant Park

What I DON'T like:

- BORING!!!!! Unimaginative to say the least...

- No inclusion of sheriff's site

- One Park Vista twin

- Lowrise, 'nuff said

- Kerry, ever thought about thinking big?

This is Winston's chance to shine and create a wonderful mixed-use project with dazzling architecture that draws people. This is just a continuation of the good 'ole boy ways of developing that have plagued this city for too long. They'll be getting an earful from me tomorrow.

I agree that this design is 'safe', again they are looking for feedback from the community so maybe changes can be made. I don't care to see a One Park Vista twin.. the building was stated as 12 stories, and I kinda dig the traditional architectural style, plus saving the Pepper building. It's a start, changes need to made to make this a true 'wow' of a project.

[twincity]

the tower in phase 3 is actually really beautiful to me. i like it better than the 20-story neimann capital building.

the park could be way more creative. he did say it will included fountains but the rendering doesnt show that. we need to see a detailed rendering!

- i like that we keep the pepper buiding

- i love the design of the tower's crown.

- im not too crazy about the height, only because a 20+ story version of this tower would truly be a centerpiece. Avant scaled up OPV. hopefully history will repeat itself.

- no public art? we need some dramatic eyecatching public art here. im thinking something classical and historic...Joseph Winston? Benjamin Forsyth? Charles I of England?

Avant may not be interested in the Sherriff site but im confident someone will!

[JerseyBoy]

I agree, I like the design of Phase III as well. It looks like a miniature version of the RJ Reynolds tower. It would look even better at 20-35 stories. IF this plan is what we do get, I'd like to see the park combine the urban feel of Bryant Park with family friendly features found in Center City Park in Greensboro and The Green in Charlotte. This plan clearly needs more thought.

[Piedmont Airlines]

Avant is killing the civic plaza plan. The new design is undescribly horrendous, from two 22+ stories buildings to one 12 stories. The former plan was much better and who wants a miniature version of the Reynolds building, it is miniature its self.