boost Rapid ridership

[zenstyle]

September 22 is International CarFree Day. Leave the pig in your driveway and take the bus. It's easy, you don't have to worry about parking, and the cost is less than you would spend on gasoline to get to and from your destinations today.

With Hurricane Rita on the move, gas prices can only rise even more...at last! Join the cutting edge of us who prefer the shared experience of communal transport.

If only it weren't raining so hard, we would see bikes galore today.

[fluffy]

i'm down! i only have to go take a drug test today. and get some groceries. i'll take the bus to the doctor and walk to get 'roceries.

[ModSquad]

With Hurricane Rita on the move, gas prices can only rise even more...at last! Join the cutting edge of us who prefer the shared experience of communal transport.

If only it weren't raining so hard, we would see bikes galore today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last night the doomsayers on every news channel were talkiing abot $5 a gallon gas prices. One prognosticator said, "$4.00 is a lock, and $5.00 is not too out of the question." I said it on previous posts...$5.00 gas would change Grand Rapids forever.

I too decided to not ride my bike today.

[publius]

zenstyle, since you like to bike,

(or anyone else for that matter)

have you ever tried this combination?

http://www.ridetherapid.org/Main/routes/businfo/bike.htm

i've been tempted, but never tried it, but curious if anyone has...

[zenstyle]

publius, I never have biked ~n~ bused, as it were. My destinations are never far away enough to warrant both. But it delights me to see bikes racked up on the fronts of the buses. Makes me feel like I'm living in a Cit-tay!

[torgo]

publius, I never have biked ~n~ bused, as it were. My destinations are never far away enough to warrant both. But it delights me to see bikes racked up on the fronts of the buses. Makes me feel like I'm living in a Cit-tay!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That bike feature is also very popular among the Rapid riders. I see people using it all the time when I ride. I think it does a lot to increase ridership.

[GRDadof3]

With Hurricane Rita on the move, gas prices can only rise even more...at last!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really hope this was meant in jest You're right, what's a few dead people and millions displaced, these are those evil gas prices we're talking about. I'm not against public transportation, but to double the price of gas would be downright devastating. Let's take a quick inventory of just SOME of the things that come from or use petroleum:

Syringes for diabetic patients

Medical and surgical equipment

Heart monitoring devices

ICU equipment

IV bottles and tubing

Baby bottles

Diapers

Roof shingles over your head

BUSES run on gas

Most likely the TIRES on your bike, lol.

Snowplows to clear the streets so that busses and bikes can get through

School buses

Plastic parts that are made, sold and processed for automobiles, office furniture, electronics, medical equipment that are made by THOUSANDS of Metro GR residents

Construction materials made, sold and processed by THOUSANDS of Michigan residents

The computer screen you are looking at right now!!! Oh, and don't forget that plastic cell phone you're holding...

The trucks and trains to put bread and milk on the grocery store shelves

And the list goes on and on.

You're right. If gas prices double or triple, we will spend less time in cars, because most of us won't have jobs to go to. There are better ways to change the transportation habits of people.

Oyyy!

End rant.

Edit, I apologize for going off, but you hit a hot nerve with that sentence

[zenstyle]

O.K., GrDad, I do see your very valid point. I don't like to give the impression that I'm giddy at the prospect of higher gas prices.

My wish is only that the price of gasoline should reflect its true cost. And the talk of various legislators wanting to suspend or lower gas taxes sends exactly the wrong message now.

zenstyle, humbly pressing the "add reply" button on her petroleum iBook.

[GRDadof3]

O.K., GrDad, I do see your very valid point. I don't like to give the impression that I'm giddy at the prospect of higher gas prices.

    My wish is only that the price of gasoline should reflect its true cost. And the talk of various legislators wanting to suspend or lower gas taxes sends exactly the wrong message now.

zenstyle, humbly pressing the "add reply" button on her petroleum iBook.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I too agree that suspending the gas tax is a bad idea. I am hoping that this crisis and the impending hurricane will be a wakeup call to alternative energy sources and higher gas mileage hybrid vehicles. Unfortunately, most of the medical and construction materials made today HAVE to be plastic to withstand the enviroments in which they perform. A planned transition needs to start now on the other petroluem uses though, because it may take at least a decade to make it a reality.

Go RAPID!

[RustTown]

Just wondering, what has the Rapids yearly ridership numbers look liked?

[publius]

Just wondering, what has the Rapids yearly ridership numbers look liked?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They recently won an award for the transit system of the year, based on increased ridership, service, and I'm sure the very successful new transit center downtown...

http://www.ridetherapid.org/index.htm

[RustTown]

I was looking through the site, and they said from April of last year to June of this year they had 1,349,868. Really? I'm just wondering, because Lansing's ridership is somewhere around 8-9 million, right now, a year. Is the Rapid a regional bus system?

[GRDadof3]

I was looking through the site, and they said from April of last year to June of this year they had 1,349,868.  Really?  I'm just wondering, because Lansing's ridership is somewhere around 8-9 million, right now, a year.  Is the Rapid a regional bus system?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

L:

That number is April to June of 2005, so it works out to about 5.2 Mil. or so per year. You have to remember that 3 million riders on CATA are on that sprawling maze of a campus at MSU, based on the article hood posted:

http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...00327/1001/news

Here is the Rapid site numbers:

http://www.ridetherapid.org/Main/about/fy2005-2.htm

[statedude3]

L:

That number is April to June of 2005, so it works out to about 5.2 Mil. or so per year.  You have to remember that 3 million riders on CATA are on that sprawling maze of a campus at MSU...

Not to mention that ridership will go up as MSU phases out roads on campus as part of the 2020 plan. Buses will be the only transportation on the majority of campus. I actually prefer this, having driven to class at both GVSU and currently at MSU.

[GaryP]

Has the university actually done anything to go forward with that 2020 vision thing? I always had serious doubts any of it would actually happen. Also arent they building parking lots on campus now?

[RustTown]

Not to further distract from the topic, but they are building parking garages, not parking lots.

[GRDadof3]

That would be nice if they made the campus more pedestrian friendly. Western was in the process of "de-automobile-ing" their campus when I was there. I have been almost hit a couple of times at State (years ago now). And is Grand River Avenue still the "gauntlet" to try and cross.

[RustTown]

But, of course. And, it's never going to change. East Lansing is easily one of the most segregated college town's I've seen. Grand River might as well be a mile wide. lol

[allbusiness]

With Hurricane Rita on the move, gas prices can only rise even more...at last! <snip!> I don't like to give the impression that I'm giddy at the prospect of higher gas prices. My wish is only that the price of gasoline should reflect its true cost.

Avoiding the obvious conservative vs. liberal philosophical discussion, gasoline is only one of thousands of goods and services you and I purchase every year that are not sold at their "true cost". Everything from milk to beer, and sugar to cigarettes are either subsidezed to promote consumption or taxed to death to discourage it. Most of the food you eat is not sold at its real cost. Why pick on gasoline? I know it's one of today's talking points, but let's get real.

The lifestyle in this country isn't going to change soon. I drive 30 miles to work, then spend most of the day in a car in a sales capacity. Public transportation is absolutely useless to me. Even if there was a high-speed rail system my employer would have to purchase a fleet of cars to allow us mobility during the day. The reality is that public transportation (except in very large cities) will continue to serve mostly lower income people living in a community's urban center. It will be a long time before that changes.(Oh, by the way, public transportation is HEAVILY subsidized. Would you like to see the Rapid "reflect the true cost" of providing rides? I think not. Federal and state money is poured into public transportation systems. That's your and my tax dollars.

A friend of mine once calculated that you could buy each regular passenger of a local public transit system a decent car and pay for a year's worth of fuel and repairs and still come out ahead in costs. It's obvious that finance isn't the only reason we all support a public transportation system.

I'm so tired of do-gooders trying to run everybody else's life. Maybe if the US would invest in its own oil exploration we wouldn't be so dependent on foreign oil. When did we build the last refinery in this country? Maybe if we would build a dozen more nuclear power plants (which have a safety record that beats most other sources of energy) we wouldn't suffer from brownouts. We have not constructed a nuclear power plant in the US for over 30 years!

If the tie-dyed, pony-tailed types in easttown want to take the bus to the food co-op that's fine with me. Just don't start reveling at the high cost of gas when so many people are already living at the edge of poverty. It's a direct hit in the pocketbook to all of us in sales and transportation jobs.

The constructive way to address this problem on a local level is to encourage sustainable traditional neighborhoods and communities that don't force people to hop in a car everytime they need to purrhase a gallon of milk. The disasterous planning models of the 1950s through the 1990s is still standard operating procedure for way too many of our local developers.

[zenstyle]

< sigh >

Outdated stereotypes aside, it's precisely the Eastown "types" who have succeeded in making the neighborhood walkable and car-independent, and would like to see the same outcome for other GR neigborhoods.

"It's a direct hit in the pocketbook to all of us in sales...jobs."

Oddly, enough, I don't weep for salesmen. Presumably, you chose your career of your own volition. You ARE driving a Prius to save costs for boss-man, right?

Perhaps you should change your forum name to "allknowing," eh?

[torgo]

The constructive way to address this problem on a local level is to encourage sustainable traditional neighborhoods and communities that don't force people to hop in a car everytime they need to purrhase a gallon of milk. The disasterous planning models of the 1950s through the 1990s is still standard operating procedure for way too many of our local developers.

I agree with this.

Cars will be in our future, that is for sure, and I think that people who get a kick out of high gas prices aren't affected by them. Obviously, high gas prices will have a tremendously negative effect on our economy as it currently exists, because everything is tied to this cost.

The only "good thing" about the high price of gas is that it may convince people to buy a house in West Grand rather than some sterile subdivison way out in BFE, and if developers saw a trend like that, we might see a lot more reinvestment in our "inner cities". I live within 10 miles of everything I could possibly want or need and then some, so the price of gas doesn't hit me that hard.

And, if traditional neighborhoods that don't require so much driving were built on a large scale, the price of gas would decrease due to the decreased demand. I don't see this happening, though.

[GRDadof3]

But, of course. And, it's never going to change. East Lansing is easily one of the most segregated college town's I've seen. Grand River might as well be a mile wide. lol

How striking would that be if they buried Grand River Avenue like the expressway in Boston? It would probably cost a lot less. Sorry, too much about East Lansing now.

And in regard to the last couple of posts, coming from someone who tends to lean a bit to the right of center (economically moreso than socially), I have stopped listening to the Rush Limbaughs, Al Frankens, Sean Hannitys, Michael Moores, and Arianna Huffingtons of the world. Especially after I saw the so-called humble man Michael Moores' multi-million dollar "cottage" on Torch Lake this summer. These people have beotchized real intellectual discussions and have driven a giant wedge between all of us, all to fill their fat wallets! Now people can't even relate to each other without first categorizing and stereotyping (and I am just as guilty with the Cabelas discussion).

After having Prankster show me the odd parking lot - building - parking lot - building development that has taken place on Ionia by Rockford Construction, I am beginning to realize we have a real problem. The key to keeping Grand Rapids growing is to change what is currently going on. The competition between cities in this country is CUT THROAT in case anyone hasn't noticed. We can no longer just be "a great place to raise a family", because we will get SLAUGHTERED by other cities fighting for businesses and population growth, if we take that selling point. The key to that is to re-focus on our core city, build density, and get people out of their cars more.

Part of taking that next step is to work on changing growth patterns in the region. I am not one for taking away peoples' development rights, but instead changing peoples' attitudes about how we live, where we live, and how we get around. My family right now is taking steps to change the way we do things. I also work in sales, but I certainly don't need to drive a brand new SUV to make a sale. And I may HAVE to drive a lot for work, but that doesn't mean I should also drive a lot to go to the store, take the kids to school, go out to a restaurant, and everything else I use my car for. Expanding the oil supplies in this country, allbusiness, is not going to be nearly enough to counteract the enormous VACUUM of energy use that the Asian region will become in the next 10 - 20 years.

Just my $.02.

[allbusiness]

Perhaps you should change your forum name to "allknowing," eh?

Nope. Just "all opinionated". Just like the rest of us! I don't think it takes much to get any of us started! But I had a good time wiriting it.

[hood]

Avoiding the obvious conservative vs. liberal philosophical discussion, gasoline is only one of thousands of goods and services you and I purchase every year that are not sold at their "true cost". Everything from milk to beer, and sugar to cigarettes are either subsidezed to promote consumption or taxed to death to discourage it. Most of the food you eat is not sold at its real cost. Why pick on gasoline? I know it's one of today's talking points, but let's get real.

The lifestyle in this country isn't going to change soon. I drive 30 miles to work, then spend most of the day in a car in a sales capacity. Public transportation is absolutely useless to me. Even if there was a high-speed rail system my employer would have to purchase a fleet of cars to allow us mobility during the day. The reality is that public transportation (except in very large cities) will continue to serve mostly lower income people living in a community's urban center. It will be a long time before that changes.(Oh, by the way, public transportation is HEAVILY subsidized. Would you like to see the Rapid "reflect the true cost" of providing rides? I think not. Federal and state money is poured into public transportation systems. That's your and my tax dollars.

A friend of mine once calculated that you could buy each regular passenger of a local public transit system a decent car and pay for a year's worth of fuel and repairs and still come out ahead in costs. It's obvious that finance isn't the only reason we all support a public transportation system.

I'm so tired of do-gooders trying to run everybody else's life. Maybe if the US would invest in its own oil exploration we wouldn't be so dependent on foreign oil. When did we build the last refinery in this country? Maybe if we would build a dozen more nuclear power plants (which have a safety record that beats most other sources of energy) we wouldn't suffer from brownouts. We have not constructed a nuclear power plant in the US for over 30 years!

If the tie-dyed, pony-tailed types in easttown want to take the bus to the food co-op that's fine with me. Just don't start reveling at the high cost of gas when so many people are already living at the edge of poverty. It's a direct hit in the pocketbook to all of us in sales and transportation jobs.

The constructive way to address this problem on a local level is to encourage sustainable traditional neighborhoods and communities that don't force people to hop in a car everytime they need to purrhase a gallon of milk. The disasterous planning models of the 1950s through the 1990s is still standard operating procedure for way too many of our local developers.

I couldn't agree more, but I think instead of looking for more domestic oil we should pour a few billion into developing an economical hydrogen fuel cell. IMO hydrogen is the way of the (forseeable) future, hands down.

[torgo]

I couldn't agree more, but I think instead of looking for more domestic oil we should pour a few billion into developing an economical hydrogen fuel cell. IMO hydrogen is the way of the (forseeable) future, hands down.

The only problem with the hydrogen cell is currently it takes more energy to make the hydrogen than what the cell would produce, so it is actually an energy loser. And, the energy used to make them is fueled by you guessed it, oil, coal, etc. I think large scale hydrogen cell usage is still many years down the road. I think it is much more important to create a less auto-dependent daily environment. If hydrogen cells came around tomorrow, then building horrendous sprawl everywhere will continue unabated.

For non-car related energy, I think we should build more nuclear power plants. Its a risk with the potential meltdown, but I don't see a better feasable alternative at this point.