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Just a bet of trivia from the past, "Delta" moved it's headquarters from Memphis to Atllanta in the 50's when Atlanta became an International Airport. The Delta in "Delta" is the Mississippi River Delta. The founding airline that Delta was based on was the "Chicago and Southern" in 1929.

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Just a bet of trivia from the past, "Delta" moved it's headquarters from Memphis to Atllanta in the 50's when Atlanta became an International Airport. The Delta in "Delta" is the Mississippi River Delta. The founding airline that Delta was based on was the "Chicago and Southern" in 1929.

Delta was founded as a crop-dusting airline in Monroe, Louisiana in the 1920's. It moved its headquarters from Monroe to Atlanta in the 1940's, though it had a large number of flights in Memphis at least up until the arrival of Northwest.

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Well, it is encouraging that they haven't cut more flights. But I'm not sure how much they can really cut and still operate a bona fide hub. It's about as lean as it gets already. Oddly enough, it is possible that Memphis may actually see an increase in NW traffic from all this. Much of what NW is cutting seems to be point-to-point stuff that bypasses the hubs. They may try to channel more traffic back through the hubs.

There have been rumors about NW pulling out of here for as long as I can remember. We'll see.

I agree...It will be interesting to see if Memphis can grow from all of this. Northwest has been rumored to be either outsourcing jobs or sending them to the three hubs...we'll see! Also, isn't the American Airlines St. Louis hub smaller than Memphis? Same with Continental and Cleveland.

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Delta was founded as a crop-dusting airline in Monroe, Louisiana in the 1920's. It moved its headquarters from Monroe to Atlanta in the 1940's, though it had a large number of flights in Memphis at least up until the arrival of Northwest.

In 1953, Delta Air Lines merged with Chicago and Southern Airlines, giving it access to a Great Lakes route system in the upper Midwest and, importantly, to points in the Caribbean Sea. It was my understanding that after merging that it kept the Delta name and moved the headquarters to Memphis for a period of time until finally moving its headquarters to Atlanta. Even if not, Memphis had been a prime center for flights after the merger and Chacago and Southern was one of the legacy airlines for Delta.

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I agree...It will be interesting to see if Memphis can grow from all of this. Northwest has been rumored to be either outsourcing jobs or sending them to the three hubs...we'll see! Also, isn't the American Airlines St. Louis hub smaller than Memphis? Same with Continental and Cleveland.

I don't know if the hub for American is smaller than the Memphis hub for NWA. I know that the airport is quite a bit larger and that St Louis, even though American cut back on the flights that they got from TWA by a large margin still have a very big presence in St Louis. Certainly not like when TWA had almost all of its flights go through St Louis.

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In 1953, Delta Air Lines merged with Chicago and Southern Airlines, giving it access to a Great Lakes route system in the upper Midwest and, importantly, to points in the Caribbean Sea. It was my understanding that after merging that it kept the Delta name and moved the headquarters to Memphis for a period of time until finally moving its headquarters to Atlanta. Even if not, Memphis had been a prime center for flights after the merger and Chacago and Southern was one of the legacy airlines for Delta.

I don't think that's true, in terms of the hq. I think Delta considered Memphis for its HQ, but decided on Atlanta. I've heard of Delta as a missed opportunity. I never heard of it as a feather that we had but lost. And this is coming from folks who were alive during the courtship (before my time). But, it's still hearsay.

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I don't think that's true, in terms of the hq. I think Delta considered Memphis for its HQ, but decided on Atlanta. I've heard of Delta as a missed opportunity. I never heard of it as a feather that we had but lost. And this is coming from folks who were alive during the courtship (before my time). But, it's still hearsay.

Delta moved its headquarters from Monroe, LA to Atlanta in 1941.

http://www.multied.com/aviation/airlines/Delta.html

Regarding Delta considering a move long ago to Memphis. I have heard that same story in reference to New Orleans and Birmingham. It might just be some Southern apocryphal tale, or it might be that Delta was scouting around for a number of sites--much like auto plants--those cities were under consideration, and just picked Atlanta.

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Regarding Delta considering a move long ago to Memphis. I have heard that same story in reference to New Orleans and Birmingham. It might just be some Southern apocryphal tale, or it might be that Delta was scouting around for a number of sites--much like auto plants--those cities were under consideration, and just picked Atlanta.

What isn't a tale, of course, is that Federal Express was originally headquartered in Little Rock. Prior to beginning regular operations in 1973, Fred Smith could not get the facilities needed to operate a hub there. Instead, he turned to Memphis which was willing to give him an extremely favorable deal on some abandoned Air Force hangars.

What would Little Rock be like today if they had accommodated FedEx's requirements back in 1973? What would Memphis be like??

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  • 2 weeks later...

What would Little Rock be like today if they had accommodated FedEx's requirements back in 1973? What would Memphis be like??

I'm thinking Tennessee as a whole would be a little bit different had FedEx stayed in Little Rock. Yow...perhaps Arkansas would be a bit better to live in.

Update: According to our neighbor at Northwest, they've been given news that they should expect expanded service at Memphis due to the slicing of p2p flights and re-routing things through the hubs. Furthermore, don't expect a merger with Delta considering it is the worse of the worst as far as finances go. Their pension is apparently billions in the hole. Yow.

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I'm thinking Tennessee as a whole would be a little bit different had FedEx stayed in Little Rock. Yow...perhaps Arkansas would be a bit better to live in.

Update: According to our neighbor at Northwest, they've been given news that they should expect expanded service at Memphis due to the slicing of p2p flights and re-routing things through the hubs. Furthermore, don't expect a merger with Delta considering it is the worse of the worst as far as finances go. Their pension is apparently billions in the whole. Yow.

Well, I don't think AR is that bad a place with or without FedEx.

About NWA--who knows what it'll do. For some reason, I don't think Memphis will be cut off if for no other reason than the airline would be giving up its entire southern presence. If it did that, it would turn into a localized midwestern carrier with good connections to Asia.

And like you said, I can't see two bankrupt airlines merging. Even for solvent carriers, mergers cost a lot of money.

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Update: According to our neighbor at Northwest, they've been given news that they should expect expanded service at Memphis due to the slicing of p2p flights and re-routing things through the hubs. Furthermore, don't expect a merger with Delta considering it is the worse of the worst as far as finances go. Their pension is apparently billions in the hole. Yow.

This does not surprise me. They have to reduce capacity without ceding market share. Dropping back to an almost exclusive hub-centric operation is the most efficient way to do this. And contrary to what some may think, MEM is not a bad hub for them. Customers like the short and on-time connections, and it sure saves fuel to be able to taxi straight from gate to takeoff without sitting around for half an hour in congestion.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I agree. I think Memphis Intl. is very efficient and such a commodity for the city.

The more I think about it, I just see Minneapolis as the first of the 3 hubs to fold simply because it is so close to Detroit. Without Memphis, Northwest would be a dinky Midwest carrier with flights to Japan. Wooo. I think Memphis Intl. is going to only get better in the next few years. The renovations are going on throughout the entire airport now and terminal/runway expansions are coming along. Plus, new airlines are coming in as well as FedEx and its A380. I only see a bright future for MEM!

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The more I think about it, I just see Minneapolis as the first of the 3 hubs to fold simply because it is so close to Detroit. Without Memphis, Northwest would be a dinky Midwest carrier with flights to Japan. Wooo. I think Memphis Intl. is going to only get better in the next few years. The renovations are going on throughout the entire airport now and terminal/runway expansions are coming along. Plus, new airlines are coming in as well as FedEx and its A380. I only see a bright future for MEM!

There is no way that NWA will close down Minneapolis as a hub. That is their home. Now if it was taken over by someone else that might not be the case, but given the current state of the industry I don't see anyone wanting to takeover NWA unless it was to break it up for parts. I think that you can use a ditto for all the old major airlines. I don't know that NWA was dinky before taking over Republic and it's hub in Memphis. NWA was much larger than Republic at the time. Yes, it is not the best that it has two hubs as close to one another as Detroit and Minneapolis are, but they are both major cities with a large number of commercial flyers. All of the airline industry is in for turmoil. I would not hazzard a guess as to where the winners or losers will be. Memphis is in a better position than many other city because of FedEx, but that doesn't mean that the situation with passenger flights couldn't take a nosedive.

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There is no way that NWA will close down Minneapolis as a hub. That is their home. Now if it was taken over by someone else that might not be the case, but given the current state of the industry I don't see anyone wanting to takeover NWA unless it was to break it up for parts. I think that you can use a ditto for all the old major airlines. I don't know that NWA was dinky before taking over Republic and it's hub in Memphis. NWA was much larger than Republic at the time. Yes, it is not the best that it has two hubs as close to one another as Detroit and Minneapolis are, but they are both major cities with a large number of commercial flyers. All of the airline industry is in for turmoil. I would not hazzard a guess as to where the winners or losers will be. Memphis is in a better position than many other city because of FedEx, but that doesn't mean that the situation with passenger flights couldn't take a nosedive.

I don't know if Republic was larger than NWA in terms of revenue, but prior to the merger Republic was the largest US airline in terms of cities served. Most people are aware that Republic was a merger of Southern Airlines and NorthCentral Airlines, but it also subsequently acquired Hughes Air West.

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I don't know if Republic was larger than NWA in terms of revenue, but prior to the merger Republic was the largest US airline in terms of cities served. Most people are aware that Republic was a merger of Southern Airlines and NorthCentral Airlines, but it also subsequently acquired Hughes Air West.

Ok, Republic had almost 200 cities that it served. NorthCentral brought in such money makers as Devils Lake ND, Norfolk NE, Huron SD, Janesville WI. We could go on. NorthCentral went to 103 cities with major sites in Detroit, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Southern went to 50 cities. They had 11 cities in common. Hughes flew to 53 cities, but again with some overlap. Republic was large, but was not really in the eastern seaboard markets very strongly. It did fly into Canada and the Caribean. Northwest was flying into 9 European cities, 13 Asian cities, 7 Florida cities, 2 Canadian cities, I think at the time it was going into a total of 42 US cities, but most were major airports unlike Republic which went into a lot of small markets. Not certain about revenues between the two, but it had ~1,000 more employees. You could say it was a merger of equals with each bringing something to the table. My Blog was about it only being a dinky Midwest carrier with flights to Japan. That was just not true.

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My Blog was about it only being a dinky Midwest carrier with flights to Japan. That was just not true.

My argument...and I phrased that incorrectly...is that without the Memphis hub, Northwest would be an air carrier that had a large focus on the Midwest with flights to the major cities in the Northeast and the West. But as for the South, what cities would be served? New Orleans, Miami, Charlotte, Nashville, Memphis, Atlanta...only the major cities in the South. A large portion Northwest passengers would be eliminated. What I'm saying is that after the Milwaukee and Indiana focus cities are cut and (heaven forbid) Northwest still needs cash, the decision is to close Memphis, Detroit, or Minneapolis...I simply doubt that Memphis would be chopped when it is bringing in passengers from airports that the other two don't serve. The Detroit and Minneapolis hubs overlap and essentially serve the same regional destinations. The whole idea that Memphis is being chopped is a rumor from flight attendants and pilots that started the whole "Northwest serves Snow Town, Mo-town, and no town" phrase. I doubt Northwest will close Detroit after millions were poured into their new terminal, so the choice is between Memphis and Minneapolis. I seriously think that Memphis is at an advantage in that race since it makes money for the airline where Minneapolis does not serve. Detroit can easily take over the regional flights Minneapolis has because those destinations are already served by DTW. Detroit and Memphis could take over the international flights that go through Minneapolis, so what I'm saying is that why would Northwest cut Memphis when it is unique to the NW hub list. Without it, Northwest will be holed up with delays in the winter with NO hub to divert passengers through because there is no warmer hub.

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I think airline hubs are still quite important despite the current trends away from H&S. But I think hubs aren't as important for the larger cities. The premise is that those areas would already be served by their local demand to warrant a critical mass of air traffic.

I think it's obvious though how a hub can affect smaller markets (I love the Cincinnati/NKY airport). True that air fares are (perhaps) higher where one line dominates (like in CLT). But look at what happened to Raleigh and Nashville when American Airlines pulled out. I think Nashville is just now starting to see the passenger levels that they had back in 1996. Overall, more passengers bring more travel options (or maybe it's the other way around when a big hub is plopped into a smaller market).

I still fly SWA out of Birmingham or Nashville whenever I can (and I have over 1 million SkyMiles!). I just personally don't like the huge airports.

Airports I hate most:

1. DFW

2. Detroit/Wayne

3. Philadelphia

4. Atlanta Hartsfield

5. Washington Dulles

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without the Memphis hub, Northwest would be an air carrier that had a large focus on the Midwest with flights to the major cities in the Northeast and the West. ...the decision is to close Memphis, Detroit, or Minneapolis...I simply doubt that Memphis would be chopped when it is bringing in passengers from airports that the other two don't serve.

Northernbizzkit, I am not saying that NWA will close any hub, but from another Blog here in UP implanements:

#9 Minneapolis 16,022,988

#10 Detroit 15,754,017

#35 Memphis 5,411,496

NWA is by far the largest airline in Minneapolis and it has the largest number of passengers. Cutbacks have and will take place at all of them, but Memphis is the smallest of the three hubs.

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My Blog was about it only being a dinky Midwest carrier with flights to Japan. That was just not true.

I wasn't trying to imply that NWA was any sort of dinky airline, just trying to say that Republic wasn't.

The whole idea that Memphis is being chopped is a rumor from flight attendants and pilots that started the whole "Northwest serves Snow Town, Mo-town, and no town" phrase.

I thought is was SnowTown, MoTown, and HoTown. :P

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Sleepy, That is bad. It's the "Capital City of the American Nile", "Bluff City", or the "River City" Don't you let those movies make you think that it is that much of a Haven for Ill Repute. :blink:

It should be SnowTown, MoTown, and SoulTown. But that's just me...

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm a pilot for one of the regional carriers serving NWA and I just don't see NWA cutting off Memphis anytime soon. That talk has been going on since 1990 and MEM is still alive and kicking. NWA serves some decent-sized markets not served from DTW and MSP and the overall load factors are very high on MEM flights compared with the other two hubs; of course, cutting capacity to the bone will help inflate those stats.

True, NWA says they want to focus on the Midwest, but they really missed a chance to grow in the South prior to bankruptcy when Delta and USAirways were in worse shape. They underutilized their MEM hub and did not try to pick off business that normally connected through ATL and CLT on those airlines. They could have even taken a run at Continental's Houston and American's Dallas hubs on a smaller scale if they had so desired. That plus their route structure logic has hurt them. Ever wonder why DTW has a non-stop to Mexico City and Memphis doesn't or why they are temporarily cutting flights from MEM to SFO and SEA? Strange...

However, the MEM hub cannot increase its flight numbers much more because of the terminal layout. DTW and MSP are continuous-flow operations with NWA flights departing and arrving at the same time. MEM uses three banks where all the flight arrive, the passengers change planes, then all the flights depart. The narrow alleyways between the A, B, and C concourses are not efficient for simultaneous arrving and departing flights (wide enough for only one aircraft). Some creative scheduling and reconfiguration of the A and C concourses would help these matters, but for now, MEM is probably limited to 5, maybe 6 banks of 50-65 flights apiece, and that's not a bad number at all.

MEM has far better weather than most other hubs, resulting in fewer delays. The airfield is constructed to allow simultaneous ILS approaches and because of FedEx, most of the runways have Cat. 3 capability (essentially land in zero-vis. conditions). The airfield is great, but some terminal improvements are needed before major growth can occur.

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