CONSTRUCTION THREAD: ONE Greenville (Main @ Washington)

[linkerjpatrick]

Would it be that warped and pointy looking on the side or is the drawing just compressed or something? The drawing is kind of freaking me out as if it's jumping out of the ground and going to cut me up or something.

[gvegascple]

Would it be that warped and pointy looking on the side or is the drawing just compressed or something? The drawing is kind of freaking me out as if it's jumping out of the ground and going to cut me up or something.

Perhaps this is a new trend in architecture that Greenville is initiating. I hope that perhaps we inspire other cities to develop more jagged and intimidating structures.

Come to think of it, that buiding in the back, the hotel I think, looks like its many stories but it seems so short in comparison to the building in front. I don't think that they could fit the people in the foreground through the tiny front doors...

Edited September 12, 2008 by gvegascple

[btoy]

Would it be that warped and pointy looking on the side or is the drawing just compressed or something? The drawing is kind of freaking me out as if it's jumping out of the ground and going to cut me up or something.

I am pretty sure the picture just looks like it was taken with a very wide angle lens.

[mallguy]

Looks great.

Two thoughts:

(1) Seems as if downtown is getting a lot more hotel space than the growth of office/retail/entertainment would usually lead to.

(2) The ground floor, being new construction, could be great for a destination retailer, as I'd expect that something like a Joseph-Beth would need modern space rather than having to adapt an older building to 21st-century retail space. (Note, for example, that Staples and Publix went to new construction downtown, rather than an older, narrow building.) Fingers crossed that we'll get something more than a Walgreens!

[gvegascple]

Even though this is just proposed at the moment, I am also very excited about this project. IMHO, this has the potential to have the most significant impact on downtown and the one we need the most over Riverplace phase 3, bookends phase 2, Peacock, Gateway, etc. The volume of potential consumers to the downtown area (and variety from both Hotel and business consumers) will provide the final anchor Main St needs to ensure it's retail viability and re-connect North Main to the West End.

It would be a crime if we cant get a nice bookstore in the bottom of one of those buildings though.

These buildings and the potential bookstore next to the open piazza remind me a little bit of the Cleveland Library and the reading park (complete with trees, fountains, art, and places to sit and read of course) that they have next to it which is very well done. It would be nice to see something like that incorporated into this design. If I can find any pictures, I will put them up.

Edited September 12, 2008 by gvegascple

[adrockc2]

A rendering of Piazza Bergamo redevelopment I grabbed from this video.

Can't remember if we had seen this before.

[benjamesriddle]

I like that! I love the extention into the street.

[gman430]

Occupancy is late 2010 on project. Office building is 12 stories tall and hotel which will be full service will be 13 stories tall. Hotel will be one story shorter looking than the office building. 13,000 square feet of retail/restaurant space. Off West Washington Street, there will be a round-a-bout entrance for the hotel/office buildings very similar to the one at Riverplace between the Terrace at Riverplace and the Hampton Inn and Suites hotel. Project is going for LEED silver. First 2-4 floors of office building will be parking.

[adrockc2]

New renderings courtesy of gman.

Edited September 18, 2008 by adrockc2

[goodbye]

I prefer to see this development plan revised, because it appears that the office tower is laid out to rise directly next to the Main Street sidewalk.

[adrockc2]

God forbid.

[B&R]

Those latest two renderings help a lot in visualizing the final result. The earlier ones were attractive and dramatic but misleading. We still need another one though. The second one shows the Main at Washington block as a rectangle. It is actually almost square. You can see the distortion in the flattened looking trees along Main St and in the Piazza.

I was hoping that the Washington Street side would be better suited to some retail or restaurant use. The other side of the street is cool with all the sidewalk tables and good crowds using them most days.

The buildings are narrower than I thought from the earlier rendering. They will complement the BOA building well. It has the same rectangular shape but turned at a 90 degree angle. Someone standing in Piazza Bergamo will see the narrow end of BOA in front of them and similar narrow ends when they turn to the left. It will create a distinctive arrangement. After the renovation of the Piazza it will also be an elongated rectangle. A pedestrian street.

I don't know that the hotel will be shorter than the office building. In the W. Washington St. elevation the office building is much closer as the hotel is offset a half block from Washington St. I think it is just the perspective.

I would prefer a 3 or 4 story frontage on Main St. but it may have been hard to combine with the constraints of not owning the building at the corner of Laurens and Washington and the need to provide on site parking. How far will the parking garage extend into the office building?

[adrockc2]

Those latest two renderings help a lot in visualizing the final result. The earlier ones were attractive and dramatic but misleading. We still need another one though. The second one shows the Main at Washington block as a rectangle. It is actually almost square. You can see the distortion in the flattened looking trees along Main St and in the Piazza.

I resized it a bit.

[gvegascple]

Those latest two renderings help a lot in visualizing the final result. The earlier ones were attractive and dramatic but misleading. We still need another one though. The second one shows the Main at Washington block as a rectangle. It is actually almost square. You can see the distortion in the flattened looking trees along Main St and in the Piazza.

I was hoping that the Washington Street side would be better suited to some retail or restaurant use. The other side of the street is cool with all the sidewalk tables and good crowds using them most days.

The renderings do not match very well, I am having difficulty understanding the alleyway entrance off of West Main. In the bird's eye, it is depicted as bisecting the two building's completely save for the amenities deck, while on the pedestrian rendering, it is not shown at all. The alleyway reminds me of the one currently at the hampton and this does not look like its designed very well if the intent is to put retail and restaurants along it. It's not connected well to Main St. and it does not seem to promote foot traffic down Washington either. It also looks like it just "dumps" into the Piazza de Bergamo. I hope we can see more detail on how the structure integrates into the areas around it. I know that these are early renderings, I am looking forward to seeing more.

[gs3]

The renderings do not match very well, I am having difficulty understanding the alleyway entrance off of West Main. In the bird's eye, it is depicted as bisecting the two building's completely save for the amenities deck, while on the pedestrian rendering, it is not shown at all. The alleyway reminds me of the one currently at the hampton and this does not look like its designed very well if the intent is to put retail and restaurants along it. It's not connected well to Main St. and it does not seem to promote foot traffic down Washington either. It also looks like it just "dumps" into the Piazza de Bergamo. I hope we can see more detail on how the structure integrates into the areas around it. I know that these are early renderings, I am looking forward to seeing more.

I believe the restaurants and retail line the Piazza Bergamo side of the buildings, as well as some fronting Main.

The plaza off of West Washington also connects to Laurens and is a bit of a round-about for cars....hotel guest drop-off.....and probably the entrance to the parking garage levels.....much like Hampton at Riverplace.

[gman430]

I prefer to see this development plan revised, because it appears that the office tower is laid out to rise directly next to the Main Street sidewalk.

And what's wrong with that? Looks ten times better than what's on site currently. If they were to go back and redesign this complex, the whole project would be set back months. The people working in the office building will be dumped out onto Main Street, West Washington Street, and Piazza Bergamo. This will help the retailers and restaurants that are already located in the area gain more business.

I don't know that the hotel will be shorter than the office building. In the W. Washington St. elevation the office building is much closer as the hotel is offset a half block from Washington St. I think it is just the perspective. I would prefer a 3 or 4 story frontage on Main St. but it may have been hard to combine with the constraints of not owning the building at the corner of Laurens and Washington and the need to provide on site parking. How far will the parking garage extend into the office building?

The hotel will be shorter than the office building. Amount of feet on each floor is shorter in the hotel than in the office building. The first two-four floors of the office building will be used as a parking garage.

I believe the restaurants and retail line the Piazza Bergamo side of the buildings, as well as some fronting Main.

I wouldn't count on any retail/restaurant fronting Main Street in this development. Most if not all of it will be fronting Piazza Bergamo. The idea is to get people off of Main Street.

[gvegascple]

I wouldn't count on any retail/restaurant fronting Main Street in this development. Most if not all of it will be fronting Piazza Bergamo. The idea is to get people off of Main Street.

It will be hard to market these locations if they are not visible from the street (initially that is, once the location is proven to be a draw for consumers, then more folks will be more likely to take the chance, depending upon rent of course). I certainly hope that there will be some sort of Mast-esque anchor store going (read: BIG BOOKSTORE) in the bottom floor(s) of the office building and I am pretty sure that they will not agree to the spot unless they get prime frontage real estate...

[gman430]

It will be hard to market these locations if they are not visible from the street (initially that is, once the location is proven to be a draw for consumers, then more folks will be more likely to take the chance, depending upon rent of course). I certainly hope that there will be some sort of Mast-esque anchor store going (read: BIG BOOKSTORE) in the bottom floor(s) of the office building and I am pretty sure that they will not agree to the spot unless they get prime frontage real estate...

The developers are hoping to make Josepth-Beth the anchor tenant. They wanted Bordes or Barnes and Noble but neither one thought the demand existed downtown to warrant one even though we all know that's not true. It has nothing to do with location either. Staples and Publix aren't located on Main Street and they came downtown.

[gs3]

The developers are hoping to make Josepth-Beth the anchor tenant. They wanted Bordes or Barnes and Noble but neither one thought the demand existed downtown to warrant one even though we all know that's not true. It has nothing to do with location either. Staples and Publix aren't located on Main Street and they came downtown.

Thank God they are going after Joseph-Beth. Sooooo much better than either of the suburban big box brands (Borders / B&N).

[gvegascple]

Thank God they are going after Joseph-Beth. Sooooo much better than either of the suburban big box brands (Borders / B&N).

I agree. IMHO the key to the sucess of a bookstore in this location is how well the store integrates with the surrounding community. Joseph-Beth seems much better suited to do just that.

[mallguy]

I just did some quick research on Joseph-Beth and it looks as if the chain has just a few stores, mostly in cities larger than Greenville and mostly in suburban areas. I'd be great to have. I wonder if the Open Book would come back downtown (it used to have a branch on N. Main St. and at Bell Tower Mall)? When it moved to Pleasantburg Shopping Center, McAlister Square was still going strong, but now that center is somewhat off the beaten path and could use some TLC; I'd think that business would be much better downtown (and yes I know of the new Fresh Market and how much some people love the Pleasantburg/Laurens intersection).

[gs3]

I agree. IMHO the key to the sucess of a bookstore in this location is how well the store integrates with the surrounding community. Joseph-Beth seems much better suited to do just that.

True. The fact that their instore bistro (Bronte) is a wine bar and not just a typical Starbucks, seems a better fit for the Main Street lifestyle as well.

[GVLbikeNboard]

It will be hard to market these locations if they are not visible from the street (initially that is, once the location is proven to be a draw for consumers, then more folks will be more likely to take the chance, depending upon rent of course). I certainly hope that there will be some sort of Mast-esque anchor store going (read: BIG BOOKSTORE) in the bottom floor(s) of the office building and I am pretty sure that they will not agree to the spot unless they get prime frontage real estate...

How is it not visible? You can clearly see into the plaza when walking on Main and people walk through there all the time to and from the Richardson Street garage.

[gvegascple]

How is it not visible? You can clearly see into the plaza when walking on Main and people walk through there all the time to and from the Richardson Street garage.

Im not sure if I follow your logic. People walk where to and from the Richardson Street Garage? The piazza? I dont think people who are already headed to the piazza are the issue. It is the ones that do not know about the would be store, they will need to see it to go there. Many people walk or drive past that piazza everyday without looking or going into it. Add some trees and some people and shops will become less noticable. Frontage is important to setting up shop somewhere, the three rules of real estate come to mind. If they can fill the piazza up with people all the time, that might make people curious to check out what's inside as well as provide a resource pool of would be consumers. How "livable" the piazza is, how successfull it can be at pulling people in and making them stay a while will be very important with respect to keeping stores that are not street facing in business.

[GvilleSC]

You can't really make an effective argument by comparing the future piazza to the current one... Today, there is limited visibility due to the bridge building. Also, people aren't going to be looking or adventuring into the piazza today (other than passing through) because of the nature of the conditions, with the main one being that an entire length of the space is a solid brick wall.

All of that will be changing. There won't be any problem prompting people to discover the ground-level offerings of this development., IMO. I think for them to shun Main Street with no fronting retail spaces would be a shame.