CONSTRUCTION THREAD: ONE Greenville (Main @ Washington)

[vicupstate]

I certainly hope you are right citylife. There are currently three major holes in Main St. I hope at least one of starts getting filled soon. The CVS project needs to get started ASAP.

[GvilleSC]

What are you considering to be the major holes? I'm assuming this is limited to the City Center district?

-Woolworth

-Main @ McBee pit

-Northeast corner of Main at Broad (???)

[vicupstate]

What are you considering to be the major holes? I'm assuming this is limited to the City Center district?

-Woolworth

-Main @ McBee pit

-Northeast corner of Main at Broad (???)

Woolworth

Main & McBee

Green Monster site

[Greenville]

Woolworth

Main & McBee

Green Monster site

Of these three, I think we will see Main @ McBee happen first, followed closely by Main at Washington, and then the Green Monster site. I am optimistic we will see construction begin on the first two in 2010, and hopefully see plans finalized for the Green Monster site. What does everyone else expect?

[btoy]

I think you will see Green Monster before Main @ Washington. I don't see Main @ Washington Starting this year.

[gman430]

Of these three, I think we will see Main @ McBee happen first, followed closely by Main at Washington, and then the Green Monster site. I am optimistic we will see construction begin on the first two in 2010, and hopefully see plans finalized for the Green Monster site. What does everyone else expect?

I see Washington Square starting construction in 2011 or 2012. However, I do see Main at McBee and the green monster developments happening in 2010 though.

Edited January 20, 2010 by citylife

[distortedlogic]

Channel 4 did a peice on this site at 5:30 today. They said the site was going to be "massive" and would include the bridge, and all the way back to the parking garage, "almost a whole city block." So it sounds like they are hoping for some major things to develop eventually. However, they did say that "even the insiders don't know what will go here" but that they are "looking" for a developer. They also said that no tenneants are known to have commotted for whatever may go there. No mention or showing of the Washington Sq proposal, and based on what they said, I think it is safe to say that Washington Sq did not materialize. It sounds like they will wait for proposals and developers to come along, so it could be years before we see anything here. None of this surprises me, but I have to say that it looks like the city got this one right this time. I am glad there will be a public green space until something is developed. Perhaps they have learned their lesson from the other walls aound town, and don't want a wall around this one. I am happy to see that it should look better and be more functional than what was there, until something can be built.

[gman430]

Like I said, the city enlisted several different architectural firms to design a project for the site. The design they will go with hasn't been decided yet. TIC Properties is the developer. We're also in a recession so that slows things down considerably. Will we see this site developed in 2010? I highly doubt it unless some large company decides to move their corporate headquarters here and they pick this site for it. 2011 or 2012 sounds more reasonable to me and that's if the economy rebounds by then. It's not a question of if this site will get developed but when. The city is working on getting tenants to this site more than any other one downtown right now.

Edited January 24, 2010 by citylife

[Greenville]

This photo's vantage point makes our downtown look so much more open than it really is. But the cool thing is that it will look super dense when Washington Square is developed.

[GvilleSC]

Wow! I had to stare at this picture for a very long time to determine where it was... Greenville Daily Photo . It's amazing how different it looks without the Woolworth building obstructing the view...

[goodbye]

First off, sorry my last photo was so large. It was much smaller on the site I snatched it from. And I let Photobucket resize these, sorry they are not all the same size.

This morning I had some time to burn before a meeting downtown so I took some "before" photos of the block of this discussion.

This is the Woolworth's building as seen from the across the intersection. Eventually if Pavillion Group can aquire all of the shares of this building or joint venture agreements with the other owners we may see this building come down.

This is the Young Fashions building, it should be coming down soon so that the Plaza @ Bergam, whose rendering can be seen above, can be built.

This is the Piazza Bergamo and it's Bridge Building, the Bridge Building is coming down along with Young Fashions as part of the Plaza @ Bergama project.

This is the GQ Fashions Building next to Woolworth's. I do not know the status of this structure. I assuem that through all this it will come down as well.

This is the vacant lot between GQ Fashions and Young Fashions, I speculate that this will be developed in conjunction with one of the projects on this block. Also notice the BofA parking Garage in the background, that garage is to be torn down as well to make room for 4 new mixed use structures on that corner of the block.

Well, they are finally all gone. I have mixed feelings regarding the loss of the bridge building though. Piazza Bergamo just doesn't feel right now that it is missing.

[goodbye]

I must say that it seems odd to stand in what was recently known as "Piazza Bergamo", look across the newly leveled "yard" and see the row of restaurants along West Washington Street. Anyone think the City could turn the space into some form of race track or miniature golf course until Washington Square is developed?

Edited February 28, 2010 by Skyliner

[swu_BA_student]

Does anyone know when the temp park will be done? Also, any chance they will surprise us in a few weeks and get started with the development?

[Easley_Truckasaurus]

I overheard two distinguished looking fellows (possible developers/realtors) talking in a downtown coffee shop the other day about Main@Washington. They were saying that the developer was considering postponing the project for at least three or four years (2013-2014) until the commercial market improved. Has anybody heard anything to validate this? I'm not really in the know concerning this development. I would hate for this to fizzle out and be stuck with some permanent park. Urban parks are nice, but maintaining the street wall on main is more important in my opinion.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Easley_Truckasaurus

[gvegascple]

I overheard two distinguished looking fellows (possible developers/realtors) talking in a downtown coffee shop the other day about Main@Washington. They were saying that the developer was considering postponing the project for at least three or four years (2013-2014) until the commercial market improved. Has anybody heard anything to validate this? I'm not really in the know concerning this development. I would hate for this to fizzle out and be stuck with some permanent park. Urban parks are nice, but maintaining the street wall on main is more important in my opinion.

It wouldnt surprise me, retail on Main is struggling right now. For those who want a supertall spire that rivals the Daniel buidling this would seem like the best spot for one downtown and if we dont put this off a few years, something smaller in scale will end up in this spot. I wouldnt mind a nice 8-10 story mixed used project in this spot though. As far as the park goes, I understand the argument that maintaining the street wall will pull pedestrian traffice more efficiently than a park, but I think in this case, an empty rotting building probably does more to deter foot traffic than a nice park would. I see the park ending up being a nice destination that could add more people downtown if done right. As we lose more and more retail along this stretch of main, we need an alternate draw in this spot. I hope the park goes up quickly.

Does anyone have any idea of what the park will look like? I have not heard or seen any plans of it and am a little concerned that there may not be any. :-)

[GvilleSC]

Does anyone have any idea of what the park will look like? I have not heard or seen any plans of it and am a little concerned that there may not be any. :-)

I wouldn't get too excited about this "park". Nothing more than what we see at the Washington side of the Bookends is going to take that space, I'd think... grass and a meandering path...?

[btoy]

I overheard two distinguished looking fellows (possible developers/realtors) talking in a downtown coffee shop the other day about Main@Washington. They were saying that the developer was considering postponing the project for at least three or four years (2013-2014) until the commercial market improved. Has anybody heard anything to validate this? I'm not really in the know concerning this development. I would hate for this to fizzle out and be stuck with some permanent park. Urban parks are nice, but maintaining the street wall on main is more important in my opinion.

That sounds about right, I ahve heard 2-3 years as well.

[vicupstate]

If there wasn't the reasonable expectation that something would happen on this site within 1 year, then the buildings should not have come down. We will be looking at a gapping hole for who knows how long.

[GVLbikeNboard]

If there wasn't the reasonable expectation that something would happen on this site within 1 year, then the buildings should not have come down. We will be looking at a gapping hole for who knows how long.

Yeah, I think as a general rule of thumb we should take that 2-3 years, double it, and that's when something might happen! If any of you have ever heard the comedian Mitch Hedberg (RIP), he has a great joke about empty spaces. "I was walking downtown in...i don't know, some town and it had store, store, store, an empty space, then store, store, store. In the empty space it had a sign that said "Coming Soon, The Gap!" I'm like, **** man...it's coming soon and it's already here."

[gs3]

If there wasn't the reasonable expectation that something would happen on this site within 1 year, then the buildings should not have come down. We will be looking at a gapping hole for who knows how long.

Agreed. I always thought the Woolworth building, while empty, at least added to the pedestrian feel. IMO, this was a big mistake. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and trusting that the city knows something we don't.

[GVLbikeNboard]

They could have hung art in the windows or let someone paint a mural on the front/sides (since it would eventually be torn down anyways). What was the deal with the building? Was it too unstable to put something inside? They could have put a temporary skate park inside, an art gallery, temp comedy/music club, mini golf, indoor grafitti walls for anyone (nothing profane or obscene, of course), church services, large gatherings (could be rented out)...endless possibilities. Of course if it's privately owned I guess that can't be done but maybe they could have been talked into it. It's a shame that there will be an empty space for so long.

[gvegascple]

They could have hung art in the windows or let someone paint a mural on the front/sides (since it would eventually be torn down anyways). What was the deal with the building? Was it too unstable to put something inside? They could have put a temporary skate park inside, an art gallery, temp comedy/music club, mini golf, indoor grafitti walls for anyone (nothing profane or obscene, of course), church services, large gatherings (could be rented out)...endless possibilities. Of course if it's privately owned I guess that can't be done but maybe they could have been talked into it. It's a shame that there will be an empty space for so long.

Ever heard of putting lipstick on a pig? I think this place was becomming a danger to the community for falling down or aesbestos contamination. Fill the hole with dirt and throw some grass seed on it, it would be an improvement. I like the vista accross the open space to the BOA building ( I bet they do too, they have been trying to appear as having a Main St address forever). I also like how the "restaurant row" of Barleys, WW, The Gelato place, and Wasabi are now more visable. It shouldnt take much for the city to take advantage of ths space while we wait for development. ANYTHING is better than a rotting building. There have been plenty of studies on how urban pocket parks add to the downtown experience, especially in lieu of empty holes, eyesores, or rotting buildings.

Oh, and INDOOR GRAFFITI WALLS!??! Just something that I have noticed, but your support for skateboarding, graffitti, quickies and the like, seem to show a very biased view for what you would like downtown to look like. One that just suits yourself and not the community at large. I think to be truly forward thinking, one must try to include everyone in the fun.

[vicupstate]

Ever heard of putting lipstick on a pig? I think this place was becomming a danger to the community for falling down or aesbestos contamination. Fill the hole with dirt and throw some grass seed on it, it would be an improvement. I like the vista accross the open space to the BOA building ( I bet they do too, they have been trying to appear as having a Main St address forever). I also like how the "restaurant row" of Barleys, WW, The Gelato place, and Wasabi are now more visable. It shouldnt take much for the city to take advantage of ths space while we wait for development. ANYTHING is better than a rotting building. There have been plenty of studies on how urban pocket parks add to the downtown experience, especially in lieu of empty holes, eyesores, or rotting buildings.

Oh, and INDOOR GRAFFITI WALLS!??! Just something that I have noticed, but your support for skateboarding, graffitti, quickies and the like, seem to show a very biased view for what you would like downtown to look like. One that just suits yourself and not the community at large. I think to be truly forward thinking, one must try to include everyone in the fun.

The building was merely vacant, bricks were not falling off of it. While the building was standing, there was the possibility of it being used for some purpose. The site is just going to be grassed over with some trees, it won't serve any purpose except during a festival or such. The pocket park in front of Wachovia (where Sticky Fingers is now)was never a draw for anything, and it was more landscaped than this 'park' will be.

Demoing the GQ fashions and the 'bridge' building would have opened up the view to the BofA building and eliminated the worse eyesore. That is what should have been done. A huge gapping hole adds nothing.

Edited March 3, 2010 by vicupstate

[gvegascple]

The building was merely vacant, bricks were not falling off of it. While the building was standing, there was the possibility of it being used for some purpose. The site is just going to be grassed over with some trees, it won't serve any purpose except during a festival or such. The pocket park in front of Wachovia (where Sticky Fingers is now)was never a draw for anything, and it was more landscaped than this 'park' will be.

Demoing the GQ fashions and the 'bridge' building would have opened up the view to the BofA building and eliminated the worse eyesore. That is what should have been done. A huge gapping hole adds nothing.

I agree about the demoing GQ Fasions and the bridge, and that is now done. So we already have a positive out of this.

If that building was ever going to be used for something, it has had over 20 years and nothing. The definition of insane is expecting different results without changing anything.

Whether a public space succeeds or fails depends upon design and planning. Each space has to take into account location and public need. An empty parcel of grass at the Wachovia location does not seem to take into acccount either of those hence the failure. However, due to the location of the Main and Washington parcel and its proximity to the bordering nearby piazza, something simpler might work. Time will tell. We gave the spot 20 years so far, I imagine we will see sucessful use of this greenspace by the summer (if they complete it in the spring).

I'd prefer an 8-10 story mixed use project with a Barnes and Noble on the main floor along with retail fronting main street and restaurants with outdoor seating fronting the Piaza de Bergamo, but until that happens, Ill take a pretty public space in lieu of an empty ugly abandoned building

[vicupstate]

I agree about the demoing GQ Fasions and the bridge, and that is now done. So we already have a positive out of this.

If that building was ever going to be used for something, it has had over 20 years and nothing. The definition of insane is expecting different results without changing anything.

Whether a public space succeeds or fails depends upon design and planning. Each space has to take into account location and public need. An empty parcel of grass at the Wachovia location does not seem to take into acccount either of those hence the failure. However, due to the location of the Main and Washington parcel and its proximity to the bordering nearby piazza, something simpler might work. Time will tell. We gave the spot 20 years so far, I imagine we will see sucessful use of this greenspace by the summer (if they complete it in the spring).

I'd prefer an 8-10 story mixed use project with a Barnes and Noble on the main floor along with retail fronting main street and restaurants with outdoor seating fronting the Piaza de Bergamo, but until that happens, Ill take a pretty public space in lieu of an empty ugly abandoned building

You are forgeting that this property was tied up in title problems for almost all of that time? It had a few dozen owners some of which couldn't even be located. It was been in the hands of one property owner for only a year or two. I seriously doubt any attempt was made to anything with this property once the title was clear. the Young's fashion building was used to sell Drive merchandise. So, at least taht building served a purpose for a time.

The longer the parcel sits vacant, the more pressure there will be to fill it with 'something'. So just as the Main and McBee project evolved into something much less, so could Washington Square. That would be less likely to happen with the building still there.