CONSTRUCTION THREAD: ONE Greenville (Main @ Washington)

[gvegascple]

You are forgeting that this property was tied up in title problems for almost all of that time? It had a few dozen owners some of which couldn't even be located. It was been in the hands of one property owner for only a year or two. I seriously doubt any attempt was made to anything with this property once the title was clear. the Young's fashion building was used to sell Drive merchandise. So, at least taht building served a purpose for a time.

The longer the parcel sits vacant, the more pressure there will be to fill it with 'something'. So just as the Main and McBee project evolved into something much less, so could Washington Square. That would be less likely to happen with the building still there.

Ill go back to my lipstick on a pig analogy then. Even if someone decided to replace the windows that were broken and boarded up and threw paint above the awning, would this location look that much better? What kind of business would be suitable to thrive in this location (the rent woudl be enormous considering the square footage and what to fill it with?) especially during the economic downturn? It's been an eyesore and a teardown for a long time, don't kid yourself. I think a lot of people let their nostalgia for the old store cloud their judgment. This building held no archicturactual significance like others that have been destroyed on main in the past. I think the city is finally making lemonaid out of a lemon while we wait. The logic that by having an ugly building occupy a prime location for 20 years somehow puts pressure to build a skyscraper in its place so much so that it overrides the fact that banks or no longer lending money during a recession somehow seems flawed to me.

[vicupstate]

My suggestion is only to demo the worst buildings (bridge and GQ), and leave it as it is. It is vacant, it is not deteriorating. You hardly noticed the old buildings before. Now you can't help but notice the huge hole in the ohterwise pedestrian paradise.

[Easley_Truckasaurus]

The news I'm hearing about the future of commercial real estate (and housing) is pretty dire. I imagine we will be looking at a large gap for some time. I guess that's what happens when half your national economy is dependent on building sprawl and government spending.

Although a grassy field like this one would make an excellent tent city.

[breed]

I wouldn't get too excited about this "park". Nothing more than what we see at the Washington side of the Bookends is going to take that space, I'd think... grass and a meandering path...?

Perhaps my perception is a little off, but in my opinion, I'd much rather have a simple park with a meandering path than a large long-term vacant structure. It may even have a positive impact in terms of helping to drive activity away from Main Street... which is probably the biggest shortcoming of downtown Greenville.

I'm not sure I understand all the hostility. It seems kind of silly. We've been complaining about this vacant structure for eons. Now that it's gone, people want it back? Doesn't make sense.

[gs3]

Perhaps my perception is a little off, but in my opinion, I'd much rather have a simple park with a meandering path than a large long-term vacant structure. It may even have a positive impact in terms of helping to drive activity away from Main Street... which is probably the biggest shortcoming of downtown Greenville.

I've been staunchly against the removal of the structure in all my post. Up until last night, I've only seen the empty lot in daylight hours (which I do not like). Last night after dinner strolling Main Street, I suddenly saw this space differently. For the first time, I noticed the neon that runs down the side of Sushi Murasaki. I noticed Wild Wings and Barley's all from Main Street, all lit up, activity through the trees and it was honestly kind of cool. I guess I defintely saw what you are saying about helping activity off of Main. Honestly, with a few additional trees and paths, this could be a bit of a "Gramercy Park" in Greenville. I can live with it temporarily, and may truely be fond of it once the trees are planted.

Edited March 4, 2010 by gsupstate

[goodbye]

I doubt we will ever see the Washington Square development built as proposed. The only indications on the Internet that this project proposal ever existed are outdated reports from the initial wave of information released to the public, most of which are locally based posts. After visiting the official websites for both TIC Properties and Cousins Properties, it appears that absolutely nothing is mentioned regarding this site. Moreover, Cousins has nothing on their website about any property in South Carolina. You'd think they would be broadcasting this project to the rest of the world if they were seriously interested in landing a potential major tenant.

Regardless, at this point I would rather see a development similar to The Custom House go up on the site instead of a field - unless someone could utilize a portion of the space for a "bandstand" gazebo for casual concerts and a synthetic ice rink for all ages. The block location is far too prime to waste on nothing but grass and trees, in my opinion.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Skyliner

[Greenville]

I doubt we will ever see the Washington Square development built as proposed. The only indications on the Internet that this project proposal ever existed are outdated reports from the initial wave of information released to the public, most of which are locally based posts. After visiting the official websites for both TIC Properties and Cousins Properties, it appears that absolutely nothing is mentioned regarding this site. Moreover, Cousins has nothing on their website about any property in South Carolina. You'd think they would be broadcasting this project to the rest of the world if they were seriously interested in landing a potential major tenant.

Regardless, at this point I would rather see a development similar to The Custom House go up on the site instead of a field - unless someone could utilize a portion of the space for a "bandstand" gazebo for casual concerts and a synthetic ice rink for all ages. The block location is far too prime to waste on nothing but grass and trees, in my opinion.

The initial proposal was legit, as evidenced by the news reports, sign on the side of GQ Fashions, etc. I believe that they were serious about making that project happen. But you are right to say that that proposal is unlikely to occur, and the reason for that is due to the city's increased involvement. As cool as that proposal was, the city wants something even more dynamic. Our city leaders realize that the site can be amazing and dynamic in both architecture and the tenants who locate there.

The park will only be there to have something to temporarily occupy the space until construction starts. Nobody is proposing that we devote such a prime block of downtown real estate to a "field." Everyone wants a development there. Something like Custom House would be a real disappointment for that location. It's great for the West End, but this location needs height, density, national retail anchors, and some trendy architecture. The city wants this to be another focal point along with Falls Park and Main @ Broad.

[btoy]

Due to the lack of success at Terminal in Atlanta Cousins in no longer involved with this project.

[gvegascple]

Those expecting a hole at this location (other than a metaphoric one) are going to be surprised. The area has been filled with dirt and graded now. It looks as though it is tiered with the higher tier being on the same grade as the Piaza de Bergamo. I also noticed workers spraying something green (Fertilizer/Seed mix?) over the area.

Nice to see this moving quickly. I also got a chance to get a feel for what it would look like to be in the park looking out, its quite a view. The two store front vista's that you see (accross the streets at Main and Washington) actually are some of the nicer stretches of storefronts on main if you had to see them in this way. The row of restaurants including Wasabi and WW on Washington and the other row of shops including Stellar and Reys look very nice both in daytime and probably even better at night.

I believe now more than ever that t his space will get used. I think it coulld help bring in business to the nearby stores which they certainly need.

For those who are skeptical, you should see it in person before making judgment. I think you will be pleased.

I am also pleased that the city understands how important this location is and is taking the time to ensure we get the right design and tennants.

[goodbye]

I have been there in person and seen the view. Yes, it is nice in a way, however when you consider the magnitude of importance such a prime piece of real estate would/could/should add to the urban fabric, it is hard not to come away disappointed by its lack of success thus far. Then there is the issue of what to do with the plaza formerly known as Piazza Bergamo.

[Greenville]

I have been there in person and seen the view. Yes, it is nice in a way, however when you consider the magnitude of importance such a prime piece of real estate would/could/should add to the urban fabric, it is hard not to come away disappointed by its lack of success thus far. Then there is the issue of what to do with the plaza formerly known as Piazza Bergamo.

Fear not. The city's involvement with Main @ Washington will ensure that Piazza Bergamo will be enhanced by this development.

[goodbye]

Until we have actual plans for this large vacant lot, I will remain skeptical. It is very difficult to market a development to potential tenants without showing them what it will look like. Once we have a visual reference, it will mean very little unless we see either TIC or the City {or preferably both} proactively market the project. Due to the uncommonly weak economy and the impressive strength of our local Arts scene, let's hope the City is thinking about providing space for artists along the street as part of this development, similar to the highly successful space along the Reedy River as part of the RiverPlace development. Personally, I would prefer to see more artists on Main Street rather than another restaurant or struggling retail shop - unless it is a large bookstore.

[gvegascple]

Until we have actual plans for this large vacant lot, I will remain skeptical. It is very difficult to market a development to potential tenants without showing them what it will look like. Once we have a visual reference, it will mean very little unless we see either TIC or the City {or preferably both} proactively market the project. Due to the uncommonly weak economy and the impressive strength of our local Arts scene, let's hope the City is thinking about providing space for artists along the street as part of this development, similar to the highly successful space along the Reedy River as part of the RiverPlace development. Personally, I would prefer to see more artists on Main Street rather than another restaurant or struggling retail shop - unless it is a large bookstore.

I don't agree with the notion of making another artists row, I rather like having "districts" that give different parts of downtown different feels rather than one homogenous one. IMHO the bottom floor of this development when completed needs a Barnes and Noble and then a mix of retail and restaurants that front both main and the Piaza. A hotel would be nice part of the mix too.

I also think that currently, banks are not loaning money, Hotels arent as full, and there is a ton of vacant office space both downtown and elsewhere. I dont see anything happening right away and even if we do get a rendering, they will be just that and will most likely change by the time the economy is in the right place to support this. In the meantime we finally have something other than a dilapidated building with a mish mosh of broken windows, boarded up windows, taped up windows and untaped windows with a rusting awning overhead. Although I will miss that awning when it rains :-)

[GVLbikeNboard]

Oh, and INDOOR GRAFFITI WALLS!??! Just something that I have noticed, but your support for skateboarding, graffitti, quickies and the like, seem to show a very biased view for what you would like downtown to look like. One that just suits yourself and not the community at large. I think to be truly forward thinking, one must try to include everyone in the fun.

Wow...I was simply throwing out some ideas. Graffiti is not always ugly. Most of the graffiti you see around Greenville is indeed an eyesore, but some cities have beautiful artwork (graffiti) on walls all over (Asheville, for example, if you explore some of the smaller streets). Having an open room for artists to show off their talent is not a terrible idea...and it's certainly better than nothing. It's not like it would be permanent! (assuming anything ever happens) The park is fine by me, I like parks! But I hate to see this project die and nothing happen for years.

I am in no way biased to what I want to see. You think I'm the only skater in Greenville who wants to ride in the downtown area? I'm not...I know plenty of people who are upset over it, and plenty of forward-thinking cities allow skating in their downtown areas. (Portland) Skating (well, more specifically longboarding) is a form of transportation just as good as anything else, not to mention it's healthy excercise. On top of the CBD being off limits to us, more and more places are becoming no-skate-zones. If you are, or were, a cyclist and you were continually being told that the places you ride are now off limits what would you think? And do you honestly have a problem with someone skating in bike lanes, or even on streets, as long as they are not being wreckless?

As far as Qwikees goes, I've stated over and over that I only support the idea of the store. What it offers is needed downtown. The store has made some improvements as far as I can tell, and I think that is at least worth noting. That's all I'm gonna say on the subject because it gets everyone here all upset every time it's mentioned.

I have this feeling that some of you think of me as some skater punk kid who only cares about myself, but if you were to ask a couple of the guys on UP who have met me you'd learn that it isn't true. I have never been in any trouble in my life, I don't like profane and dirty music, I graduated high school with close to a 4.0, I spend more time with my family than I do with friends, I pick up random trash downtown (especially in front of Liquid Highway)...I don't get it...drop the judgement people. I'm far from an angel, but I'm no convict. I'm on UP obviously because I care about this city and it's residents! If I didn't I wouldn't waste my time here contributing to the forums! I want our downtown to continue it's growth and improvements as it has been for the last 10 or so years, and yes...believe it or not I want some things to go my way, just as y'all do!

[btoy]

I don't have a problem with skaters, I do have a problem when they damage preprty skating. For example the new fountain on Pete Hollis next to BB&T. The ledge in front of that fountain is all miscolored from wax and all chipped up from skateboard trucks griding on it and that pisses me off. Tax payer money was just spent on that fountain and the ledge is an eyesore already. I saw some skateboards there friday and I almost called the cops on them for vandelism!!

[gman430]

What happened to the park planned for the site? Ruh roh: http://www.wyff4.com/news/22788713/detail.html

[apaladin]

What happened to the park planned for the site? Ruh roh: http://www.wyff4.com...713/detail.html

Channel 4 tonight quoted Mayor White that a project is planned for the site and soon. The project would bring more people i.e. foot taffic than anyone had imagined. They also said he said an announcement would be coming soon. If this is true there would be no need to spend money on a park.

[Greenville]

Channel 4 tonight quoted Mayor White that a project is planned for the site and soon. The project would bring more people i.e. foot taffic than anyone had imagined. They also said he said an announcement would be coming soon. If this is true there would be no need to spend money on a park.

This sounds quite exciting. I do not think the mayor would make a public statement like this if it weren't a fairly sure deal.

[gvegascple]

This sounds quite exciting. I do not think the mayor would make a public statement like this if it weren't a fairly sure deal.

As the big "park-pusher" on here, I definately would prefer a great exciting mixed use project instead. If Mayor White has enough reason to believe something will materialize soon enough to justify cancelling any plans to make the area open greenspace, than I am all for just that.

However, I do not see any difference between the fence and the old run down building, I stopped going to Trio over a year ago after 3 dissapointing meals in a row. They should be focusing a little more inward when looking to place blame as to why business is poor.

I do think the park would draw more people downtown and help local business, so this information that Mayor White has better be legit, or we are just trading a ratty building for a fence for the next three years. That would be a shame.

[Galley]

I, too, have had a few disappointing experience at Trio's and have no desire to return.

[goodbye]

This sounds quite exciting. I do not think the mayor would make a public statement like this if it weren't a fairly sure deal.

While this sounds exciting on the surface, let's not forget that the City was touting the most recent development proposal for the Gateway site with equal vigor, expressing much greater confidence in the potential success and impact of the project than any of the preceding proposals. Let's also remember the excitement and anticipation following the demolition of the old Kress building, followed by the Firestone service station on McBee Avenue. One development never materialized after several years of marketing. The other became an urban memorial to the financial collapse of the decade and will undoubtedly be almost impossible to redevelop in the near future.

Let's hope the Mayor isn't bluffing this time around. Promising/teasing words are a cheap way to reassure doubters that everything is alright, even if it isn't. Development announcements are better, especially if they include detailed renderings and financial plans, however as we have seen numerous times recently, even the most promising plans have the potential to be completely changed or scrapped for various reasons.

Hope is our friend yet again.

[gman430]

TIC Properties doesn't need bank financing/investor help to build a development on site unlike the developers of the Peacock and Gateway projects. They are a fairly large company with plenty of capital backing to build what they please there. The only thing TIC Properties needs to build something there is tenants. They don't want to build a spec building at this time due to the economy and class A office vacancy rate in downtown Greenville.

Edited March 11, 2010 by citylife

[gs3]

While this sounds exciting on the surface, let's not forget that the City was touting the most recent development proposal for the Gateway site with equal vigor, expressing much greater confidence in the potential success and impact of the project than any of the preceding proposals. Let's also remember the excitement and anticipation following the demolition of the old Kress building, followed by the Firestone service station on McBee Avenue. One development never materialized after several years of marketing. The other became an urban memorial to the financial collapse of the decade and will undoubtedly be almost impossible to redevelop in the near future.

Let's hope the Mayor isn't bluffing this time around. Promising/teasing words are a cheap way to reassure doubters that everything is alright, even if it isn't. Development announcements are better, especially if they include detailed renderings and financial plans, however as we have seen numerous times recently, even the most promising plans have the potential to be completely changed or scrapped for various reasons.

Hope is our friend yet again.

The city did indeed play up both Gateway and the Firestone site with no or failed results. But you seem to be missing a few.....the city demolished the row of buildings in West End that is now Riverplace. The city demolished the old apartments that are now McBee Station. The city demolished the car bridge for what is Liberty Bridge. The city demolished an old warehouse site for what is now Fluor Field and the Fieldhouse. The city demolished the park and old fire station for what is now the new Main at Broad development.On and on. Seems the numbers speak positive FOR the mayor and the cities history of bringing projects to fruition. Why would you assume the mayor is bluffing with so many wins on his side?

[gvegascple]

Driving past it a few minutes ago, it appears as though there is grass seed down, but i was trying to peek under the fence from a moving car

Maybe there is a back-up plan :-)

[goodbye]

Driving past it a few minutes ago, it appears as though there is grass seed down, but i was trying to peek under the fence from a moving car

Maybe there is a back-up plan :-)

I think that is a method used to control erosion and runoff onto the sidewalks, although a silt fence would probably do the same.