COMPLETED: Blue Back Square

[HartfordTycoon]

I can't take anyone seriously who claims street oriented development in the center of an affluent, bustling town center is bad, while at the same time aligns themselves with a huge mall on the outskirts of town.

Isn't Providence Place an indoor mall? That doesn't seem to be such a bad thing for Providence. If we were to characterize BBS as a "mall", it would hardly be typical considering the buildings all stand alone and there are streets running through the site.

Anyone who has been to the Shops at Evergreen Walk in S. Windsor or the Shops at Farmington Valley in Canton can tell you that so called lifestyle centers can amount to what is basically an inside out mall. Same old mall stores, same old mall design. The difference in West Hartford will be it is being built in an already urban area, on an existing streetscape, and the buildings will house more than just shopping. It will include extensive condo housing, office use, government use, and of course retail. I think it's going to turn out great though, as Evergreen Walk and Farmington Valley are both successful on a much simpler, less complex scale. I think our region is ready for this type of complex, mixed use development, which to be honest is somewhat new around here.

BBS Website

Here's a new site set up for the housing.

The Heritage - BBS Housing

[SOCOM]

BBS is most certainly a change from the typical West Hartford Center in that it'll have some national chains (Crate & Barrel, Fleming's Steak House, Whole Foods Market), and I guess that scares some people. However, northern CT/Hartford Metro doesn't have a Whole Foods Market or a Crate & Barrel, and I can't think of a better place to put them than West Hartford Center.

West Hartford residents are very progressive...if this development felt like a mall to them, they would have voted it down. Same thing if it had included a Walmart or a Target. The quality of the shops and design is what convinced people to vote for this development overwhelmingly on three seperate occasions.

[Cotuit]

Isn't Providence Place an indoor mall? That doesn't seem to be such a bad thing for Providence.

Yup, it's a mall, but they didn't tear the heart of of Providence to build it.

I wouldn't exactly call Blue Back Square a conventional mall.

I didn't say it was a conventional mall, I said it was essentially a mall.

I do agree that this all seems to have been discussed by fair minded people, and should probably move forward. I also agree that this WHISHP is a joke. But there is something to say for saving old buildings and maintaining the integrety of a town center. Never having been there though, I wouldn't put myself in a postition to speak about in anything other than the abstract.

[SOCOM]

Yup, it's a mall, but they didn't tear the heart of of Providence to build it.

That's a bit dramatic. How can you claim the heart of West Hartford is being torn out when you have never been to West Hartford Center and have no idea what the site looks like? The only thing the developers are "tearing up" is an old car dealership that vacated the site years ago.

It seems you took my comment about Providence Place the wrong way...it was meant to be a compliment on how successful that mall actually is.

[MadVlad]

It's biased because it's all personal opinion and speculation. Like SOCOM said, most of the thing is on an old car lot. It will expand their downtown, and add some downtown housing, not "rip out it's heart and soul" or whatever the hell she said. Not sure about the "historic" buildings it's demolishing. I really don't remember there being being too many buildings there to begin with, and the ones that are there certainly aren't anything too special, or I would remember them...

[basachs]

I went to undergrad at University of Hartford and West Hartford Center has always had a special place in my heart. My wife and I still go back regularly (we met there too!)and love its feel.

I would hate for BBS to have a really manufactured feel. This is very similiar to a lot of developments in the D.C. area. I hope they do a good job of blending with West Hartford center. If not, the downtown area will feel very fractured.

Anyone who is closer to this project have insight into that?

[SOCOM]

I would hate for BBS to have a really manufactured feel. This is very similiar to a lot of developments in the D.C. area. I hope they do a good job of blending with West Hartford center. If not, the downtown area will feel very fractured.

Although I am a big proponent of BBS, I share the same concerns. All I can say is that I've looked at the renderings hundreds of times, and walked past the area many times in the 17+ years I lived in West Hartford, and don't see any problems.

I think the fact that BBS is seperated from the rest of WHC by Main Street (which is 3 lanes wide, plus a very large grassy median) almost makes it disconnected from the start. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but given this, I do think BBS and the existing WHC will feel like two distinctly different areas.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I think Blue Back Square will reinforce West Hartford Center's position as an anchor at the western end of a unique urban corridor. I think the combination of BBS and the downtown Hartford efforts will help put more focus on Farmington Avenue. On or just off this corridor are some notable attractions such as the Mark Twain House and Elizabeth Park with its Rose Garden. Some of the area's finest residential neighborhoods (which I miss in South Florida) are located off this corridor.

That article is biased because the woman who wrote it is from West Hartford and is a big part of the effort to stop Blue Back Square. She is one of three resident puppets filing a lawsuit supported by Westfarms Mall to block the development.

So, I wonder what Westfarms would say about adding a wing to the mall?

[uconn99]

I would think Westfarms would expand after BBS gets off in running. For a mall, Westfarms is nice. It has its mix of the usual mall stores and harder to find upscale shops, along with Nordstroms which most people drive miles for (I have no idea why). Is Westfarms the biggest mall in Ct? I know Buckland is big, but I believe Westfarms has it by 200-300,000 SF.

[SOCOM]

For a mall, Westfarms is nice.

One of the classiest malls in the country for sure. Most malls have that trashy look and feel to them, Westfarms is warm and elegant. I just wish they would stay out of the BBS development!

Is Westfarms the biggest mall in Ct? I know Buckland is big, but I believe Westfarms has it by 200-300,000 SF

No, the largest mall is Danbury Fair Mall. I can't find my 2005 book of lists, but I remember it was around 1.5 million sq. ft. Westfarms was 2nd or 3rd biggest, with about 1.2 million sq. ft (tied with the Brass Mill Center in Waterbury). Buckland Hills has around 900,000 sq. ft.

[Garris]

No, the largest mall is Danbury Fair Mall. I can't find my 2005 book of lists, but I remember it was around 1.5 million sq. ft. Westfarms was 2nd or 3rd biggest, with about 1.2 million sq. ft (tied with the Brass Mill Center in Waterbury). Buckland Hills has around 900,000 sq. ft.

I seem to recall Danbury being the largest as well. I grew up 20 minutes from the Danbury Fair Mall. Save for the cynically preserved Merry-Go-Round (stuck in the back of the food court), it's actually a pretty terrible mall in my opinion. Walking it takes forever, and it's hard to see one level's stores on the other level. It's also hands down the loudest mall I've ever been to, even when empty. The choice of materials and design pretty much ensures that it's an echo chamber... Don't even get me started about how dangerous the parking lots are...

- Garris

Providence, RI

[SOCOM]

yikes, I'm glad I've never been there!

[BJE]

Number one reason why this isn't even "essentially" a mall: mixed-use.

BBS will have residences over retail, and office space over retail, and garage parking over retail. This is much more like traditional downtown development (such as 1920s West Hartford Center) than it is like single-use suburban mall development. Yes, there will be chain stores, but there are already chain stores in WHC (and lots of urban areas, for that matter), and it doesn't detract from the character of the place.

To my eyes, the design looks good. I hope that the materials and construction are top-quality. That will make a big difference, I think. It will be very important to get the detailing right, to avoid the all-too-common "fake facade" quality of your typical strip mall. Street-Works' other projects seem to be pretty good in this regard.

As far as preserving historic buildings, the current historic West Hartford board of education building will be gutted and transferred to the developer to be used in the new development, and will be replaced (at the developer's cost!) with a new one which will be owned by the town. The historic facade WILL be maintained, so the view from Main Street will be preserved. I've never been inside, but almost any muncipal building I've seen from this era is hopelessly chopped up inside, with little to no historic construction remaining. I don't see a big loss here.

All in all, a great infill project, in my opinion. And when their property values double in the next couple of years, I suspect the NIMBYs and Westfarms pawns will secretly love BBS, too.

BJE

[SOCOM]

As far as preserving historic buildings, the current historic West Hartford board of education building will be gutted and transferred to the developer to be used in the new development, and will be replaced (at the developer's cost!) with a new one which will be owned by the town. The historic facade WILL be maintained, so the view from Main Street will be preserved. I've never been inside, but almost any muncipal building I've seen from this era is hopelessly chopped up inside, with little to no historic construction remaining. I don't see a big loss here.

But that nice lady in that article (who obviously has the town as her first interest) said historic buildings are going to be demolished and we should all throw a fit. I can't imagine someone so impartial could be telling us lies.

[drc72]

Today, Wednesday June 22 the community of West Hartford (population about 60,000) is voting for a second time on Blue Back Square. A yes vote would give the developers the chance to start construction even though the Taubman Corporation which owns Westfarms Mall keeps creating lawsuits to delay and/or block the project through its high profile attorneys.

DISCUSS THIS TOPIC, IT'S HOT RIGHT NOW IN GREATER HARTFORD!

edit Old thread mysteriously showing up.

[MadVlad]

Are you sure you aren't reading old posts?

[drc72]

Are you sure you aren't reading old posts?

LOL! I see. Why did this thread show up. I notice from time to time that old threads will show up as people posting today, when they really haven't.

[damus]

LOL! I see. Why did this thread show up. I notice from time to time that old threads will show up as people posting today, when they really haven't.

It's when people vote in the poll. The last person to have really posted is the last poster...

[drc72]

It's when people vote in the poll. The last person to have really posted is the last poster...

Oh I see. I guese I'll have to pay attention to the posted dates more.

[grock]

I think it is good for visitors, overall good for the town, bad for the folks who live near the center.

[asylumhill]

Does anyone know what the status of construction is at BBS. I see two buildings going up, I'm pretty sure one is a parking garage but what is the other one?

[HartfordTycoon]

I think it is good for visitors, overall good for the town, bad for the folks who live near the center.

I think if I already lived near the Center I would welcome it. Maybe that's because I'm a 20 something though and would love to see more shops, bars, and restaurants coming right to me.

Does anyone know what the status of construction is at BBS. I see two buildings going up, I'm pretty sure one is a parking garage but what is the other one?

I bet if you checked the site plan on their website you could kind of figure out what buildings they are.

[grock]

That's the problem if you live near the center. Too much development brings more people and more cars. West Hartford is a great quaint suburb and shouldn't become too urban.

[drc72]

That's the problem if you live near the center. Too much development brings more people and more cars. West Hartford is a great quaint suburb and shouldn't become too urban.

Too late now, it already feels kind of urban when you go downtown. Not a bad thing though.

[HartfordTycoon]

That's the problem if you live near the center. Too much development brings more people and more cars. West Hartford is a great quaint suburb and shouldn't become too urban.

West Hartford is a large urban town. One of the largest in the state population wise. West Hartford is only like 5,000 residents smaller than New Britain. West Hartford really should be a city in my eyes. Look at West Haven and East Haven, both are cities and East Haven is much smaller than West Hartford. The problem is West Hartford purpetuates this false notion that it is Quaint somehow. I don't get it at all. I go through West Hartford on my way to work in Simsbury everyday and just to illustrate my point that transition from Urban to Quaint does not occur until you get halfway up Avon mountain. If you want Quaint, try Simsbury, Avon, and Canton. Not West Hartford, the 3rd largest town in Hartford County.