COMPLETED: Blue Back Square

[Luca Brasi]

I have nothing against Crate and Barrel or Cheesecake Factory or Barnes and Noble, but if you've been to one, you've been to them all. Between Cheesecake Factory and Chili's I am indifferent, but between Cheese Cake Factory and lets say Trumbull Kitchen, there is no contest.

Exactly. Very well put.

[HartfordTycoon]

I don't think Manhattan and Harlem is at all like a mall. Sure there are national chains, but what make NYC, or any city for that matter, stands out are locally owned shops that are unique and interesting. I can't imagine any travel guide will rave about Cheescake Factory, be it Atlanta's, West Hartford's or anywhere else's Cheesecake Factory, instead they will recommand Murasaki, and Azul, and rightly so.

I recently had a chat with a couple from San Francisco who stayed in Hartford for a week for their daughter's graduation at Trinity. They were looking to day trip destinations, when I suggested West Hartford their respond was "but its boring". Believe it or not, I can see their point of view. Sure most shops are local, but they are stale and safe. West Hartford's gift shops don't have local arts and crafts, galleries don't showcases local or regional artists, they only selling prints. There are few interesting ethnic eateries be them African, Caribbean, Morrocan, Ethiopian, Southern, or Soul Food. For a city of sixty thousands, there is no indie film theater. Before you guys think I am a snob, I am not saying WHC should be an alternative hippie town, or a new wave cutting edge type of place, but I do think there should be some diversification. There is no room in West Hartford now, so BBS could have been the place to add some colors. I have nothing against Crate and Barrel or Cheesecake Factory or Barnes and Noble, but if you've been to one, you've been to them all. Between Cheesecake Factory and Chili's I am indifferent, but between Cheese Cake Factory and lets say Trumbull Kitchen, there is no contest. Like Hartfordtycoon said, "truly Interesting and authentic neighborhoods develop on their own", BBS is forced, therefore not interesting and not genuine. If BBS is a movie, it is yet another sequal with no innovation and no excitement. It's a proven formula, but it's a boring formula.

On the other hand, if I can afford the rent, I just might sign up and make butt load pile of money. Who care if it is boring, money can't buy happiness, but it makes misery easier to cope with.

Jcrc, I really do feel your pain. The local flavor in Hartford is pretty much in the less desireable parts of town. So while I enjoy going into no frills ethnic eateries on Albany Avenue and Park Street, many will not do so and the owners can't afford to expand to bring their products Downtown and into WHC. I would love to see a Jamaican Bakery open Downtown, or more run in a grab a bite type of ethnic eateries in the CBD, but the national chains are what will kind of validate the lacation as viable. I think and hope many of our local treasures will become a part of everything once they are sure they won't loose the house so to speak on trying to get into a high rent area.

The fact is while you may not like chains many people do and look at Hartford as a backwater because we don't have all of the chains they have in NYC, Boston, or Atlanta. Many of these chains will help shed light on our local hidden treasures. More people from farther away will surely discover WHC due to the national chains only found there as far as CT is concerned, this will in turn get people coming there more often and exploring the already established areas. I see it as a win-win, nothing to be dismayed about. Let a few chains in to get the ball rolling for the boring people so that things get to the critical mass point that we all want.

What local business would even have the ability to open the large scale restaurants needed to make BBS work? I can't even think of any. These chain restaurant tend to be so much larger than local ones and they deal with extremely huge crowds. I can't envision a local restaurant doing that for BBS, maybe you guys can. I guess I just don't have the imagination it takes to imagine that sort of exposive growth with purely local businesses.

[SOCOM]

Between Cheesecake Factory and Chili's I am indifferent, but between Cheese Cake Factory and lets say Trumbull Kitchen, there is no contest.

Can't disagree with you there. My only point is that I don't mind if there are 3 or 4 chain stores mixed in among dozens of locally owned businesses. The big worry I have is how these chain stores are going to be built. I hope they are not not built as single buildings with parking lots surrounding them. That would be a travesty.

[HartfordTycoon]

Can't disagree with you there. My only point is that I don't mind if there are 3 or 4 chain stores mixed in among dozens of locally owned businesses. The big worry I have is how these chain stores are going to be built. I hope they are not not built as single buildings with parking lots surrounding them. That would be a travesty.

I actually stumbled on a real estate brokerage site yesterday, I don't know it offhand but it said that the buildings will be shared and was advertising retail space still being available if you wanted to be in a building that also houses these household names.

And I'm being honest here, maybe it's because it's in Atlanta, but I've had more fun at 1 visit to Cheesecake Factory or Dave & Buster's than a week of eating a Max's or TK could ever provide. I want these places to be fun, something sorely missing from our region. Some of those great local restaurants can be a bit pretentious.....

[jcrc]

Jcrc, I really do feel your pain. The local flavor in Hartford is pretty much in the less desireable parts of town. So while I enjoy going into no frills ethnic eateries on Albany Avenue and Park Street, many will not do so and the owners can't afford to expand to bring their products Downtown and into WHC. I would love to see a Jamaican Bakery open Downtown, or more run in a grab a bite type of ethnic eateries in the CBD, but the national chains are what will kind of validate the lacation as viable. I think and hope many of our local treasures will become a part of everything once they are sure they won't loose the house so to speak on trying to get into a high rent area.

The fact is while you may not like chains many people do and look at Hartford as a backwater because we don't have all of the chains they have in NYC, Boston, or Atlanta. Many of these chains will help shed light on our local hidden treasures. More people from farther away will surely discover WHC due to the national chains only found there as far as CT is concerned, this will in turn get people coming there more often and exploring the already established areas. I see it as a win-win, nothing to be dismayed about. Let a few chains in to get the ball rolling for the boring people so that things get to the critical mass point that we all want.

I hope you are right. One thing I wish the city of Hartford have is some kind of program that will reach out to places on Albany or on Park and provide funding, training, and location help so that instead of just getting by at poor location, they can prosper at better location with better atmosphere and better presentation. I mean the food is good, it's ashame most people don't get to try them.

By the way I think there is a new Ethiopian restaurant on Farmington Ave, next to Tisane. I hope to check it out soon.

[beerbeer]

I lived in Atlanta for 6 years, in midtown at Colony Square. I thought it was a very boring city. The sports teams were fun but the city was very plastic and antiseptic. It was a southern city that really wasn't in the south. It 's Yuppieland. Cheescake Factory is the height of culture in Atlanta.

[HartfordTycoon]

I lived in Atlanta for 6 years, in midtown at Colony Square. I thought it was a very boring city. The sports teams were fun but the city was very plastic and antiseptic. It was a southern city that really wasn't in the south. It 's Yuppieland. Cheescake Factory is the height of culture in Atlanta.

I wouldn't agree with that assesment, but this is not an Atlanta board. I LOVE ATL!!! Had many of the best times of my life there. But I was in college and it was definately my type of scene. Everything is not for everybody.

[beerbeer]

I still have family in Atlanta. So I still go back frequently. It's a nice town. It's a great place to pick up girls. But as a city it just doesn't have any character.

[HartfordTycoon]

I still have family in Atlanta. So I still go back frequently. It's a nice town. It's a great place to pick up girls. But as a city it just doesn't have any character.

But it's fun with plenty of everything for everyone (except that real urban environment to true blue Urban Dwellers) many residents and visitors. Almost universally Hartford is known to be boring and/or violent. I would much rather be known as fun. Especially if we can't get rid of the violence overnight. Most of the "fun" cities in America have much worse crime problems than Hartford, but you don't notice because you are being entertained. The local restaurants around here are nice, but they are not hang out's for people in my age range. They are always filled with older and middle aged people which is great, but not the most inviting atmosphere to get restaurants and bars packed with 20 somethings. We need thing to keep and attract us here and right now pickings are slim. BBS is a definate step in the right direction in my opinion.

My only real point is that if chain restaurants work to attract a certain segment that may otherwise not have gone to WHC or Downtown, than they serve the only purpose they need to in my mind. Just to clarify, I am not implying that WHC or Downtown are dangerous, they are both quite safe. However to visitors or new college students, they don't really come here expecting much from the region and the only things they've heard is that the area is boring and that Hartford is dangerous.

[jcrc]

I still have family in Atlanta. So I still go back frequently. It's a nice town. It's a great place to pick up girls. But as a city it just doesn't have any character.

Are these girls very plastic and without character? If yes, I am so there.

[HartfordTycoon]

Are these girls very plastic and without character? If yes, I am so there.

In the Atlanta I know, it's like Black Hollywood. It's the fast life plain and simple, late nights, IHOP in Buckhead until 5 or 6 in the morning, pretty much never sleeping, and everyone is all about money. The place totally changed my outlook on pretty much everything. The most beautiful women I've ever seen and the most opulant lifestyles I've ever witnessed. I went to school with the children of celebrities like Samual L. Jackson, who also attended my alma mater, Denzel Washington, even Rudy from Cosby Show (Keisha Knight Paulum - she hates being called Rudy). Future celebs like Eva who won America's Top Model (my brother had her number before the show and didn't even really use it!) and R&B singer Bobby Valentino where in school with us too. Even the rapper Mase was a student when I first arrived. My experience in ATL was unreal.... I even met Muhamed Ali at the Varsity, got to see Ray Charles speak to us and met Samual L. Jackson when he spoke to our class!!! And that's not even the countless number of times that I got to be in the club and party with everyone from Diddy to Nas to Little Jon. I mean, I was into the scene. I loved it.

Not saying that I want Hartford to ever become Atlanta, however we need to spice it up a bit if we want to be a major city. We can't just keep being Sleepytown USA. Downtown needs to embrace nightlife. I would even go so far as to create a special entertainment district Downtown that would allow the bars to stay open at least an hour longer, giving Hartford a distinct nightlife advantage in New England as even in Boston everything shuts down by 1:30 or 2:00 and this is the common complaint I hear from young people throughout New England and is almost universally cited as a reason to leave for a more exciting city. I think we could have a lot of interest from some pretty high quality promoters as far new venues and clubs the likes of which we have not really seen in CT before. I'm a nightlife guy, I think that it's instrumental in attracting new residents and keeping the young ones we have already.

[Cotuit]

And I'm being honest here, maybe it's because it's in Atlanta, but I've had more fun at 1 visit to Cheesecake Factory or Dave & Buster's than a week of eating a Max's or TK could ever provide.

I don't know about Atlanta, but I kind of think of the Cheesecake Factory in Providence as a place to take your grandma for lunch.

[HartfordTycoon]

I don't know about Atlanta, but I kind of think of the Cheesecake Factory in Providence as a place to take your grandma for lunch.

I'm sure it's cool for a lot people. Grandma's probably go to the one in ATL all the time too. Just not at Midnight on Peachtree St.

[drc72]

All right I have to ask this? Is the cheesecake really that good?

[HartfordTycoon]

All right I have to ask this? Is the cheesecake really that good?

Truthfully, the food is OK to me, drinks are pretty good, and the Cheesecake is Great in my opinion.

[MadVlad]

They have a Cheesecake factory in Caesar's in Vegas. I didn't go in, but it was packed....

[HartfordTycoon]

They have a Cheesecake factory in Caesar's in Vegas. I didn't go in, but it was packed....

.....and that's all that really matters. Build some stuff and get people to go to it. It's that simple.

[Cotuit]

They have a Cheesecake factory in Caesar's in Vegas. I didn't go in, but it was packed...

That's one thing you can say about the Cheesecake Factory in Providence, it's always packed.

The food is better than other chains, you know, way better than TGI Fridays or the like. But it's not really great. It annoys me that they give you so much, it's embarrassing when they come to the table with this big heaping trough of food that could feed a small Central American village (I know Americans like big portions and tend to think they're being ripped off if they don't get massive portions, but I can only eat like 10% of their servings, at the end of the meal it looks like I haven't touched my plate and I'm stuffed ). And their menu has a freaking table of contents. Any menu with that many items you should be suspicious of quality. Good restaurants find a niche to focus on, trying to be all things to all people is not usually a good thing in a restaurant.

There's nothing intrinsicly fun about CF, if you're looking to attract a younger demographic, I'd focus on getting a D&B, as far as chains go at least. Cheesecake Factory won't make or break BBS.

[HartfordTycoon]

There's nothing intrinsicly fun about CF, if you're looking to attract a younger demographic, I'd focus on getting a D&B, as far as chains go at least. Cheesecake Factory won't make or break BBS.

Of course it won't make or break it, it's just the latest big name to commit. There will be others, it's just part of what's gonna make BBS work and another new name in the Greater Hartford market.

[drc72]

.....and that's all that really matters. Build some stuff and get people to go to it. It's that simple.

You couldn't be more right about that!!!

[mikel]

I'm just looking forward to street-front retail. I've completely given up on the malls and big-box stores. I haven't been to a mall in literally years. Hopefully there will be some nice trendy clothes stores, it's getting tough traveling to New York to go shopping all the time.

[JimSawhill]

Well I can't say I've ever had the pleasure of visiting Northamton. I don't agree that Manhattan and Harlem are that different from the mall, looked the same to me, same stores and fast food joints. Looked the same as the outdoor shopping area in Boston near the state house whatever that's called. Same Idea is what I'm saying. Do you expect them to build all of these new buildings and put all small businesses in there? Would that even by profitable for the developer? There will be local shops there as well, and let's not forget that the entire rest of West Hartford Center is pretty much locally owned small businesses with an already large following. There will surely be some in the new development as well and the ones already there will quite possibly thrive even more once people start living in the center on a large scale. To me the national names are what was missing from WHC. Everything else was already there. There's nothing wrong with attracting Chains. It's mean you are doing something right on many levels. If you weren't doing something right they wouldn't want to be here. I think most of us would jump for joy if Cheesecake and other national names were even interested in investing in Downtown somewhere.

Tycoon:

Northhampton is a nice town. most of the stores are local -- a few bookstores were 'Alternative Lifestyle' stores, but also, at the old railroad station was a great restaurant and there is a great camping/outdoor store in downtown Northhampton. Every weekend there is something going on and the old Central Massachusetts Railroad rail-trail starts from there.

I'd love to see more local stores in Downtown Hartford.

Jim S

[JimSawhill]

I don't think Manhattan and Harlem is at all like a mall. Sure there are national chains, but what make NYC, or any city for that matter, stands out are locally owned shops that are unique and interesting. I can't imagine any travel guide will rave about Cheescake Factory, be it Atlanta's, West Hartford's or anywhere else's Cheesecake Factory, instead they will recommand Murasaki, and Azul, and rightly so.

I recently had a chat with a couple from San Francisco who stayed in Hartford for a week for their daughter's graduation at Trinity. They were looking to day trip destinations, when I suggested West Hartford their respond was "but its boring". Believe it or not, I can see their point of view. Sure most shops are local, but they are stale and safe. West Hartford's gift shops don't have local arts and crafts, galleries don't showcases local or regional artists, they only selling prints. There are few interesting ethnic eateries be them African, Caribbean, Morrocan, Ethiopian, Southern, or Soul Food. For a city of sixty thousands, there is no indie film theater. Before you guys think I am a snob, I am not saying WHC should be an alternative hippie town, or a new wave cutting edge type of place, but I do think there should be some diversification. There is no room in West Hartford now, so BBS could have been the place to add some colors. I have nothing against Crate and Barrel or Cheesecake Factory or Barnes and Noble, but if you've been to one, you've been to them all. Between Cheesecake Factory and Chili's I am indifferent, but between Cheese Cake Factory and lets say Trumbull Kitchen, there is no contest. Like Hartfordtycoon said, "truly Interesting and authentic neighborhoods develop on their own", BBS is forced, therefore not interesting and not genuine. If BBS is a movie, it is yet another sequal with no innovation and no excitement. It's a proven formula, but it's a boring formula.

On the other hand, if I can afford the rent, I just might sign up and make butt load pile of money. Who care if it is boring, money can't buy happiness, but it makes misery easier to cope with.

jcrc:

Hmmm... sign up? WHC has some great places -- I love LEMON GRASS for Thai food, I love War&Pieces, too.. the ice cream (that used to be a Baskins-Robbins) was good. I'd love to see more locally owned stores -- not chain stores. WHC used to have an Arthur's Drugs.

Abnyway, what would you sign up for... you in retailing?

[JimSawhill]

Jcrc, I really do feel your pain. The local flavor in Hartford is pretty much in the less desireable parts of town. So while I enjoy going into no frills ethnic eateries on Albany Avenue and Park Street, many will not do so and the owners can't afford to expand to bring their products Downtown and into WHC. I would love to see a Jamaican Bakery open Downtown, or more run in a grab a bite type of ethnic eateries in the CBD, but the national chains are what will kind of validate the lacation as viable. I think and hope many of our local treasures will become a part of everything once they are sure they won't loose the house so to speak on trying to get into a high rent area.

The fact is while you may not like chains many people do and look at Hartford as a backwater because we don't have all of the chains they have in NYC, Boston, or Atlanta. Many of these chains will help shed light on our local hidden treasures. More people from farther away will surely discover WHC due to the national chains only found there as far as CT is concerned, this will in turn get people coming there more often and exploring the already established areas. I see it as a win-win, nothing to be dismayed about. Let a few chains in to get the ball rolling for the boring people so that things get to the critical mass point that we all want.

What local business would even have the ability to open the large scale restaurants needed to make BBS work? I can't even think of any. These chain restaurant tend to be so much larger than local ones and they deal with extremely huge crowds. I can't envision a local restaurant doing that for BBS, maybe you guys can. I guess I just don't have the imagination it takes to imagine that sort of exposive growth with purely local businesses.

Tycoon:

One of my favorite restaurant -- yes, for soul food is Peaches in East Hartford. It is a little building, but it is a great place. Unfortunatly, noone ever think about local eateries, but there are much better than chains. Here near me in Florida is a restaurant called MANGROVES. They have great seafood, there and the docks are busy. (Yes...it is on the water and people do boat there.)

Would people know about it? Nope... visitors don't know about Mangroves because it isn't a CHAIN.

Jim

[JimSawhill]

In the Atlanta I know, it's like Black Hollywood. It's the fast life plain and simple, late nights, IHOP in Buckhead until 5 or 6 in the morning, pretty much never sleeping, and everyone is all about money. The place totally changed my outlook on pretty much everything. The most beautiful women I've ever seen and the most opulant lifestyles I've ever witnessed. I went to school with the children of celebrities like Samual L. Jackson, who also attended my alma mater, Denzel Washington, even Rudy from Cosby Show (Keisha Knight Paulum - she hates being called Rudy). Future celebs like Eva who won America's Top Model (my brother had her number before the show and didn't even really use it!) and R&B singer Bobby Valentino where in school with us too. Even the rapper Mase was a student when I first arrived. My experience in ATL was unreal.... I even met Muhamed Ali at the Varsity, got to see Ray Charles speak to us and met Samual L. Jackson when he spoke to our class!!! And that's not even the countless number of times that I got to be in the club and party with everyone from Diddy to Nas to Little Jon. I mean, I was into the scene. I loved it.

Not saying that I want Hartford to ever become Atlanta, however we need to spice it up a bit if we want to be a major city. We can't just keep being Sleepytown USA. Downtown needs to embrace nightlife. I would even go so far as to create a special entertainment district Downtown that would allow the bars to stay open at least an hour longer, giving Hartford a distinct nightlife advantage in New England as even in Boston everything shuts down by 1:30 or 2:00 and this is the common complaint I hear from young people throughout New England and is almost universally cited as a reason to leave for a more exciting city. I think we could have a lot of interest from some pretty high quality promoters as far new venues and clubs the likes of which we have not really seen in CT before. I'm a nightlife guy, I think that it's instrumental in attracting new residents and keeping the young ones we have already.

Tycoon:

Did you go to Moorehouse College?