Transportation Projects, Roads, Light Rail, etc

[Mith242]

The Fayetteville City Council Street Committee is recommending to the state that Garland be widened to four lanes. A lot of people along Garland complained about the plan with five lanes. Some wanted only three, but the city wanted to do more than just that. Not going the five lane option also helps save the city from having to try to acquire more right of way. Although it is a state highway so the AHTD could actually do whatever it wanted. But I'm assuming they'll probably follow the suggestion. I haven't heard whether they will plan for bike lanes or not.

[Senator]

"Isn't a population nearing 750k, 850k, or 1M large enough to support light rail?"

1 million's enough, if that 1 million is dense enough. Getting to 1 million will take, what, another 50 years? Please provide a link to this study that's says the area going to double within 10-15 years. That seems wildly ambitious.

We shouldn't put the cart before the horse. We need a decent bus system, another 500,000 or so people, and we need those people to move into dense housing sited on mostly already-developed land. All of that needs to happen before light-rail.

The study is the UA CDC one Mith just linked to in the post above. And since that post I've actually seen that our current population is closer to 450k, but I'll have to find a source for that.

[Snaple4]

I called Ozark Regional Transit today and asked for information on a return trip starting at Fayetteville to Rogers and back. The lady that spoke with me told me no, there is no route that does that nor do they do scheduled transportation between regions or areas... So why again is it called Regional Transit? Because they operate in more than one city even though I am unable to be transported from the two major areas in NWA? Stupid ORT and our car culture!

[Mith242]

I called Ozark Regional Transit today and asked for information on a return trip starting at Fayetteville to Rogers and back. The lady that spoke with me told me no, there is no route that does that nor do they do scheduled transportation between regions or areas... So why again is it called Regional Transit? Because they operate in more than one city even though I am unable to be transported from the two major areas in NWA? Stupid ORT and our car culture!

Hmmm...I thought they did have some city to city transportation. Maybe they don't have it between Fayetteville and Rogers, but like you said, those are two major 'centers' for our metro. That is disappointing to hear. I'm trying to remember but seems like I remember hearing something about some of the NWA cities cutting back on paying funds out to ORT a while back ago. But I don't recall what cities or the details.

[Snaple4]

They have a bus that runs between the cities but not in the Summer months. It will resume when NWACC resumes classes for the fall. I can understand but you would think they would try to encourage business goers to use it in order to maintain the same level of service. If I worked at Wal-Mart or a nearby vendor, I would use it if they provided the service. I hate that drive and not being able to read. Guess this is why we need a Light rail system. Speaking of which, I need to start bugging people about that again.

Stupid ORT

Edited May 28, 2009 by Snaple4

[zman9810]

It's reported that NWA will gain Legislative seats after the next census. Other urbanized areas such as Central Arkansas and NE Arkansas stand to gain seats also as the long term trend of urban areas gaiing population from rural areas contiunues. How many seas won't be known until the actual census numbers are in and disticts are redrawn to reflect the shifts. This is good news in the when it comes to funding transportation projects- it might be possible to change the State Highway Commission funding formula to more of a need based one instead of the current one.

[Mith242]

It's reported that NWA will gain Legislative seats after the next census. Other urbanized areas such as Central Arkansas and NE Arkansas stand to gain seats also as the long term trend of urban areas gaining population from rural areas continues. How many seas won't be known until the actual census numbers are in and districts are redrawn to reflect the shifts. This is good news in the when it comes to funding transportation projects- it might be possible to change the State Highway Commission funding formula to more of a need based one instead of the current one.

I hope so, but I'm not sure how that all works. I thought I'd seen one thing that mentioned the state is divided in to 4 or 5 areas where funds tend to be split between. If that's the case then I don't think population tends to influence matters. Although if a larger population center has needs I do imagine that helps and a project might be taken care of sooner. But outside of Jonesboro in northeast Arkansas just about all the growth is in northwest or central Arkansas. Everything in eastern Arkansas except Jonesboro has really lost a lot of population, just even in the past decade. What would probably work best is both northwest and central Arkansas, the two major population centers, should try to work together and try to wield more influence. Although overall with Little Rock being the capitol it already wields a lot of influence. So perhaps northwest Arkansas needs to find a way to try to work with central Arkansas in that case.

[jdevers]

The only problem is that NWA and LR have more trouble with each other than most of the rest of the state... The only thing that they agree on are things which outright help urban areas.

[aerotive]

I called Ozark Regional Transit today and asked for information on a return trip starting at Fayetteville to Rogers and back. The lady that spoke with me told me no, there is no route that does that nor do they do scheduled transportation between regions or areas... So why again is it called Regional Transit? Because they operate in more than one city even though I am unable to be transported from the two major areas in NWA? Stupid ORT and our car culture!

They had a test express route that ran from Fayetteville to Bentonville. Picked people up at the U of A and the old Washington Regional hospital IIRC. It made stops at the Walmart HO and a couple others in Benton county. I only got to ride it twice before they shut it down--not enough usage.

Edited June 16, 2009 by aerotive

[Mith242]

Read a bit more about continuous flow intersections in the paper today. They had looked at 35 possible locations in the state to consider putting in something like this. It's apparently been narrowed down to 5 possible locations now. The only one in NWA is the intersection of Joyce and College in Fayetteville. Here's a link showing how it works. I believe this link was posted but that's been quite a while back.

http://www.abmb.com/cfi-testdrive.html

Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but overall it doesn't look like it's going to be a big help overall. I guess I'm just wondering if it will help enough to warrant the costs. Or maybe if there's another possibility. I always hear so much about how roundabouts work so well. But overall NWA seems hesitant to implement them. Now I don't know how well a roundabout would work with that heavy of a traffic load. But it seems to me it might possibly do just a well of a job if not better than the other solution. I think the biggest problems with roundabouts is getting people in the area used to them.

[akahogfan]

Read a bit more about continuous flow intersections in the paper today. They had looked at 35 possible locations in the state to consider putting in something like this. It's apparently been narrowed down to 5 possible locations now. The only one in NWA is the intersection of Joyce and College in Fayetteville. Here's a link showing how it works. I believe this link was posted but that's been quite a while back.

http://www.abmb.com/cfi-testdrive.html

Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but overall it doesn't look like it's going to be a big help overall. I guess I'm just wondering if it will help enough to warrant the costs. Or maybe if there's another possibility. I always hear so much about how roundabouts work so well. But overall NWA seems hesitant to implement them. Now I don't know how well a roundabout would work with that heavy of a traffic load. But it seems to me it might possibly do just a well of a job if not better than the other solution. I think the biggest problems with roundabouts is getting people in the area used to them.

Frankly, I think in the case of College/Joyce, that a RTL, or Right-to-turn-Left system, would work much better. No turn signals and no extra lights. Also much easier to get used to.

In the rest of the city I think that turnabouts would be lovely. I agree with your assessment that most are not used to them though. Today I was driving through Shackleford Crossing (bleh) in LR and saw several straight cars turn left into the bloody things. Yikes! Almost caused a few accidents. I won't comment on the gender of each of these drivers.

Oh, and is there some way that we could see the article? Is it online perhaps, or do you know?

Edited June 27, 2009 by akafish77

[Mith242]

Frankly, I think in the case of College/Joyce, that a RTL, or Right-to-turn-Left system, would work much better. No turn signals and no extra lights. Also much easier to get used to.

In the rest of the city I think that turnabouts would be lovely. I agree with your assessment that most are not used to them though. Today I was driving through Shackleford Crossing (bleh) in LR and saw several straight cars turn left into the bloody things. Yikes! Almost caused a few accidents. I won't comment on the gender of each of these drivers.

Oh, and is there some way that we could see the article? Is it online perhaps, or do you know?

It's basically the section where people ask the 'Traffic Guru' about problems or info. I guess I'm still old fashioned in that I still read the newspaper most days, but I sometimes check out their online source. Here's a link to that section.

http://www.nwanews.com/gridlockguru/

But it looks like they haven't put the newer sections in online yet. Can you describe your RTL system or have a link that shows how it works?

[akahogfan]

It's basically the section where people ask the 'Traffic Guru' about problems or info. I guess I'm still old fashioned in that I still read the newspaper most days, but I sometimes check out their online source. Here's a link to that section.

http://www.nwanews.com/gridlockguru/

But it looks like they haven't put the newer sections in online yet. Can you describe your RTL system or have a link that shows how it works?

Thanks. I prefer to read the real thing to, but I am at my parents house for the summer and no longer have access to the university's readership program.

The RTL system is much like the the CFI in that there is no need for turn lanes, thus no need to have extra light cycles. The reason that I like it more than CFI is that it requires no extra lights, only the ones that are already there. In fact, you could actually take away all the turn signals. Here is a link.

The video on the right is the normal intersection. The one on the left is the RTL. If you enlarge the video it is a little bit easier to make out. I would set the video to HD as well, makes it much clearer.

Edited June 27, 2009 by akafish77

[Snaple4]

I think a roundabout with a North/South underpass would be best for college and Joyce.

This is another great example. It shows the before and after.

[Mith242]

That's a very interesting intersection set up. I haven't seen a roundabout quite like that. I wonder where they have some of those at and how well they work. That second example looks interesting as well.

[Snaple4]

It would be nice to know how effective these are. By looking at the designs and assuming that the roundabout was properly used by the motor vehicles, it seems to be a great idea for traffic flow. Pedestrian traffic would need some special attention but nothing too bad. Anyone know who I could submit a suggestion too?

For the top two designs:

You would just strip 71 of its 3rd outermost lane and use that to connect to the roundabout. Then you would have the two North and the two South bound lanes of 71 use the underpass. Joyce would connect to the roundabout (also know that roundabouts can have a dedicated right yields so that lane can only go from say west bound to north bound, this further reduces confusion).

Edited June 29, 2009 by Snaple4

[Mith242]

It would be nice to know how effective these are. By looking at the designs and assuming that the roundabout was properly used by the motor vehicles, it seems to be a great idea for traffic flow. Pedestrian traffic would need some special attention but nothing too bad. Anyone know who I could submit a suggestion too?

I'm not sure. I was looking on the city's website. I don't really see anyone in charge of just roads or transportation. I guess you'd have to email the mayor or the city council members. But College is Hwy 71 of course. Even if the city really liked some of the ideas if the AHTD doesn't then we'd be out of luck. I bit like the Garland situation.

[zman9810]

I second that- the mayor and city council are who you want to send suggestions to.

This is one time I'd rather them try it out somewhere else before they build one here. The idea seems like a good one but the actual construction and traffic flow afterwards might be a little different than what is expected.

On another transportation topic anyone hear about the Blue Ribbon Panel that is looking into transportation issues for the state? This is a group that was made possible by the recent legislative session and I beleive is looking at funding problems primarily. Sounds like they are having some problems getting their focus on how to do what needs to be done. Some members want to do studies and others want to jump right in and do something.

I think if they look at what has worked in the past they might get some ideas. The bond issue that financed the interstate improvements worked wonderfully and would again as long as the bond issue is a one time thing and not a revolving door like what was asked for a couple of years ago. I think the majority of people would vote for a one time bond issue and when that money is spent another election for another bond issue could be held.

[Mith242]

On another transportation topic anyone hear about the Blue Ribbon Panel that is looking into transportation issues for the state? This is a group that was made possible by the recent legislative session and I believe is looking at funding problems primarily. Sounds like they are having some problems getting their focus on how to do what needs to be done. Some members want to do studies and others want to jump right in and do something.

I think if they look at what has worked in the past they might get some ideas. The bond issue that financed the interstate improvements worked wonderfully and would again as long as the bond issue is a one time thing and not a revolving door like what was asked for a couple of years ago. I think the majority of people would vote for a one time bond issue and when that money is spent another election for another bond issue could be held.

I'm also wondering if you're going to have differences or problems between different areas of the state as well. I'm curious to see how a bond issue would do with the current economy.

[zman9810]

I'm also wondering if you're going to have differences or problems between different areas of the state as well. I'm curious to see how a bond issue would do with the current economy.

I get the impression that nothing will done for at least a year or so- hopefully the economy will be stronger by then. If they put out a list of what projects they are looking at so that people can see where their money is going it will help pass a bond issue.

[Mith242]

Next year's census could have a big impact on transportation in NWA. While most of us know our metro is over 400,000. A lot of us might not know how large our urbanized area is. which is basically areas that have population densities above 1,000 people per square mile. In 2000 our urbanized area was around 172,000. With next year's census we're expected to surpass 200,000, perhaps as high as 225,000. Once we hit the 200,000 mark in our urbanized area we become a Transportation Management Area. That means we will have a lot more authority on federal money on transportation issues.

[Mith242]

On another issue, I saw mention of a new book out about the proposed light rail. I'm not sure what's different in the book compared to the pdf file I've seen and posted somewhere on here. (I'll have to take a look for that again). KNWA said you could access their website to get the book but I never saw it. Only an article talking about it. If anybody has any info or has a copy of the book let us know what you think about it. I certainly do like the idea of having a light rail option, I've wondered if we're really ready for it. But after catching some of the city meetings covering the light rail option on tv recently, it's hard not to want to get behind it. While it would probably be better to improve our bus service first then work our way up to a light rail system. I suppose a light rail system would make us improve our bus system as well. I've mentioned this before a lot time ago. I'm still trying to figure out the use of the term. From most of what I'm seeing we're talking about mainly using existing A&M rail. Everything I've seen marks that to me as a heavy rail system. I believe on a light rail system only the passenger trains would have use of the rail. Apparently A&M has been pretty interesting in this. While part of me still feels a bit skeptical as to whether we're really ready for something like this. Seeing people who have done studies on this and seem to think we can do this, it's hard not to get excited about it.

[Senator]

I'm not 100% sure, but it was my understanding that this is the same book as before but that they recently received grant funding to publish it. Either way, though, you can get a free copy by attending a presentation on it (by one of the authors, I think) on 7/30 at the Fayetteville Public Library.

[Mith242]

I'm not 100% sure, but it was my understanding that this is the same book as before but that they recently received grant funding to publish it. Either way, though, you can get a free copy by attending a presentation on it (by one of the authors, I think) on 7/30 at the Fayetteville Public Library.

Thanks. I was trying to see if I could get a hold of one sooner. But guess I can always wait till then.

[Shantytown Architect]

What time is the meeting?