Jump to content

Transportation Projects, Roads, Light Rail, etc


mcheiss

Future Proposed Northwest Arkansas Transportation Projects  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Project is the best option for the future of Northwest Arkansas?

    • 10 Stop Light Rail System
      33
    • Western Bypass
      15
    • I-540 Improvements (6 to 8 lanes)
      35
    • Eastern Parkway
      6
    • Regionwide Bus Service
      8
    • Pedestrian Facilities
      1
    • Bicycle Facilities
      4
    • Ride Share Programs
      1


Recommended Posts

I'm confused... I read all this "hype" about Fayetteville and Northwest Arkansas striving to be the green valley of the universe. Yet, the community transportation infrastructure has no viable car-pooling incentives, no meaningful public transit, the government doesn't mandate bi-annual smog checks on motor vehicles, there are no car-pool or bike lanes, traffic gets clogged on the highways around the employment centers (e.g., Wal-Mart HQ, NWA Mall, and around the UofA), building codes don't demand (or even encourage) sustainability, and my sustainability options pale in comparison to other cities where I've lived and travelled.

Instead, we want to pour more concrete and asphalt (assuming the government/taxpayers can even afford to out-bid the Chinese for it), and hope we can dupe some wanna-be Wal-Mart vendor into opening a field office here because they read a press release that said we're a leader in all things green.

Let's stop kidding ourselves that we're the green valley of the universe, and admit we're way behind the curve on sustainability. First, let's start working towards catching up with the rest of the country on all things green. And, stop following the broken path of believing if we pump out press releases, and pour more asphalt, "they" will come.

The incredibly good news is the Northwest Arkansas community is realistically only about 175,000 citizens. We're not burdened by the challenge of dealing with millions of people needing to rebuild its infrastructure (and mindset) to meet the new world order (sustainability). Set the stage now for where the world (and Northwest Arkansas) is going to need to be. That begins with a new vision and model - and funding - for a viable future in transportation for the region. Then, I'll believe the hype about "green valley".

Hello greenblogger and welcome to the area!

I imagine it's a culture shock if you are from Seattle and living in lil ol' NWA. While Fayetteville is striving to bill itself as the Green Valley, I don't think anyone here has any illusions that it is the model of the green movement. It is making great strides in that direction in great part to the effort of our mayor and and the affects of Walmart's efforts towards a more enivronmentally aware corporate policy. There is a culture of environmental awareness in Fayetteville due to to the presence of the University of Arkansas and the the people that a university atmosphere attracts.

You mention "bi-annual smog checks on motor vehicles", most in NWA will have no idea what that means as NWA has no smog problems. The majority of people in NWA are either long term residents or have moved here from similar areas. There have been many new residents from major metropolitan areas and their influence is what has helped make NWA a better place to live- at least in my opinion. The change to a more green outlook for the entire population will take a lot of time and effort. My hope is that the people who believe in the green movement will become more politically active and elect the leaders that will have the will to enact the policies that are needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


A big reason there is no extensive public transit is that this area just doesn't have the population density to support such a thing. Something like 450,000 people spread over two counties, but the "big" cities only account for around 250,000 of that.

Not enough people, and what people there are don't live close enough together.

That can be changed with more infill development and more residents but that will require many years to accomplish.

The one area that does have a fairly dense population is central Fayetteville and especially the UofA area, and lo and behold that part of town has a decent public transport system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The comments about light rail/public transportation are fascinating. I think its great to dream big. Let me offer my thoughts:

First, population density in NWA, or lack thereof makes this idea completely unrealistic. Its currently nowhere even close.

Second, comments about traffic are all relative. People from larger metros would view NWA traffic issues as a non issue.

Third, and perhaps this is most telling...what would fundamentally be the incentive for light-rail demand between these various cities? I mean, you look at a map and geographically it makes sense, but honestly, why or how often would someone want or need to go between Bentonville and Springdale, or Fayetteville and Rogers? NWA is fundamentally suburban in nature, and there is no real centrality, thus focus or "gravity" for moving people between where they live and where they work. There is no urban center, no downtown. A little bit of everything is available pretty much everywhere - there's not much of a reason to go between Rogers and Fayetteville. Its more of the same. The airport "might" be an option, but its not on the axis.

Realize this: people will NOT utilize public transportation until it is MORE convenient and LESS expensive than driving, AND until there is a real need to go somewhere. If NWA quadruples in size, a dominate urban center develops, and gas is $10/gallon, then maybe. Its a cool idea though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The comments about light rail/public transportation are fascinating. I think its great to dream big. Let me offer my thoughts:

First, population density in NWA, or lack thereof makes this idea completely unrealistic. Its currently nowhere even close.

Second, comments about traffic are all relative. People from larger metros would view NWA traffic issues as a non issue.

Third, and perhaps this is most telling...what would fundamentally be the incentive for light-rail demand between these various cities? I mean, you look at a map and geographically it makes sense, but honestly, why or how often would someone want or need to go between Bentonville and Springdale, or Fayetteville and Rogers? NWA is fundamentally suburban in nature, and there is no real centrality, thus focus or "gravity" for moving people between where they live and where they work. There is no urban center, no downtown. A little bit of everything is available pretty much everywhere - there's not much of a reason to go between Rogers and Fayetteville. Its more of the same. The airport "might" be an option, but its not on the axis.

Realize this: people will NOT utilize public transportation until it is MORE convenient and LESS expensive than driving, AND until there is a real need to go somewhere. If NWA quadruples in size, a dominate urban center develops, and gas is $10/gallon, then maybe. Its a cool idea though...

Good points. Overall I think there's still one big reason to take a serious look into light rail right now. To really even have a shot at getting some sort of light rail in the future you have to start planning early. If we waited till down the road when the metro was larger and there might be actual demand for it then it's probably going to be too difficult to even get it off the ground. If some of the land was acquired now before real estate prices increase due to future growth, you'd be at least a step closer and would also save a lot of expense. It would seem to me to be a good investment as well. If light rail never came about then surely they could sell that land for a profit at some time in the future. Or maybe even use that land for some other purpose. As things stand right now, light rail isn't really feasible. But it's hard to say where the metro will be in say another decade or two. I doubt anyone thought NWA would be where it's at now a couple of decades ago. Although some of the individual cities in NWA are old overall the metro itself is rather young. There's still a lot of maturing that needs to happen I think. But I also think in one way or the other it's going to happen. maybe in ways we can't really fathom right now. Anyway it's possible light rail will never happen in NWA. But I think it's still a good idea to plan ahead just in case that does work out to be a realistic option at some point in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good points. Overall I think there's still one big reason to take a serious look into light rail right now. To really even have a shot at getting some sort of light rail in the future you have to start planning early. If we waited till down the road when the metro was larger and there might be actual demand for it then it's probably going to be too difficult to even get it off the ground. If some of the land was acquired now before real estate prices increase due to future growth, you'd be at least a step closer and would also save a lot of expense. It would seem to me to be a good investment as well. If light rail never came about then surely they could sell that land for a profit at some time in the future. Or maybe even use that land for some other purpose. As things stand right now, light rail isn't really feasible. But it's hard to say where the metro will be in say another decade or two. I doubt anyone thought NWA would be where it's at now a couple of decades ago. Although some of the individual cities in NWA are old overall the metro itself is rather young. There's still a lot of maturing that needs to happen I think. But I also think in one way or the other it's going to happen. maybe in ways we can't really fathom right now. Anyway it's possible light rail will never happen in NWA. But I think it's still a good idea to plan ahead just in case that does work out to be a realistic option at some point in the future.

Mith - you are right. I wasn't intending to imply that planning for a system was inappropriate, just that its very, very early. The time that would have to pass for this to even be a remote possibility is so far out as to render assumptions about growth inaccurate. But, I agree that planning right-of-way acquisition might be fortuitous!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The comments about light rail/public transportation are fascinating. I think its great to dream big. Let me offer my thoughts:

First, population density in NWA, or lack thereof makes this idea completely unrealistic. Its currently nowhere even close.

Second, comments about traffic are all relative. People from larger metros would view NWA traffic issues as a non issue.

Third, and perhaps this is most telling...what would fundamentally be the incentive for light-rail demand between these various cities? I mean, you look at a map and geographically it makes sense, but honestly, why or how often would someone want or need to go between Bentonville and Springdale, or Fayetteville and Rogers? NWA is fundamentally suburban in nature, and there is no real centrality, thus focus or "gravity" for moving people between where they live and where they work. There is no urban center, no downtown. A little bit of everything is available pretty much everywhere - there's not much of a reason to go between Rogers and Fayetteville. Its more of the same. The airport "might" be an option, but its not on the axis.

Realize this: people will NOT utilize public transportation until it is MORE convenient and LESS expensive than driving, AND until there is a real need to go somewhere. If NWA quadruples in size, a dominate urban center develops, and gas is $10/gallon, then maybe. Its a cool idea though...

I have to disagree with your density argument and convenience argument.

Before the great streetcar conspiracy by the big three automakers, which really screwed up this country, you use to be able to take different street cars from Boston all the way to Chicago without walking but a few miles. This negates your density argument as I have both driven and taken Amtrak's Lake Shore Limited on this route, there is a lot of empty space and small towns.

As for convenience as long as the services runs frequently enough and at the right time periods, public transportation will always be more convenient for commutes, unless you are scared of your fellow human being.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to disagree with your density argument and convenience argument.

Before the great streetcar conspiracy by the big three automakers, which really screwed up this country, you use to be able to take different street cars from Boston all the way to Chicago without walking but a few miles. This negates your density argument as I have both driven and taken Amtrak's Lake Shore Limited on this route, there is a lot of empty space and small towns.

As for convenience as long as the services runs frequently enough and at the right time periods, public transportation will always be more convenient for commutes, unless you are scared of your fellow human being.

You fail to consider a huge hole in your argument. Cities during that era were built at a MUCH higher density than now, and were actually structured not only around public transportation, but were pedestrian in nature, as the automobile was only beginning to become ubiquitous - not everyone owned 2 or 3 (Your example about the Lake Shore Limited is not comparable, because of centralized destinations and the sheer amount of traffic and inconvenience at the arrival point - and if you're talking about the time when it was built - it was before many people had cars). The current state of American cities is in no way comparable to what they were 60 years ago, and this difference is particularly pronounced in Washington/Benton counties, which have little to no urban density whatsoever. NWA is fundamentally suburban in nature (there is no density at any starting point, nor any density at any destination point...so how convenient could the stations possibly be?).

Furthermore, there is absolutely no defensible position that light rail would offer any practical convenience given the current state of traffic (or lack thereof), or even fuel costs, not to mention the "why" factor (as in the low demand for moving between these cities). For instance, I can hop in my car at my in-laws in Rogers and be in Fayetteville in 20 minutes, with a vehicle that allows me to arrive at a specific location - which is very important given the fact that Fayetteville is also suburban (i.e. how could any one or two stations possibly be convenient in that environment?). To take light rail, I'd have to DRIVE to a station in Rogers (suburban) - assume an aggressive 5 minutes - wait 5 minutes for a train (right) - get on the train and suffer through multiple stops on the way to my destination - assume 20 minutes (very gracious) - then I arrive and realize that I need to get to my friends house on Old Wire road, which is miles away and I have no way to get there. In this environment, this is categorically inconvenient.

Having said all of that, please know that I'm a huge proponent of public transportation - particularly rail - but I'm not naive enough to think that its even remotely realistic in 95% of American so-called "urban" areas, and I believe that NWA is a particularly bad candidate at today's density, traffic and fuel cost levels. Maybe one day....

p.s. I'm well aware of GM's "streetcar" conspiracy - they bought and closed the entirety of Little Rock's (extensive) streetcar line back in the 50's. Trivia: GM was brought to trial and actually found "guilty" of the charges. Do you know how much they were fined?! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Furthermore, there is absolutely no defensible position that light rail would offer any practical convenience given the current state of traffic (or lack thereof), or even fuel costs, not to mention the "why" factor (as in the low demand for moving between these cities). For instance, I can hop in my car at my in-laws in Rogers and be in Fayetteville in 20 minutes, with a vehicle that allows me to arrive at a specific location - which is very important given the fact that Fayetteville is also suburban (i.e. how could any one or two stations possibly be convenient in that environment?). To take light rail, I'd have to DRIVE to a station in Rogers (suburban) - assume an aggressive 5 minutes - wait 5 minutes for a train (right) - get on the train and suffer through multiple stops on the way to my destination - assume 20 minutes (very gracious) - then I arrive and realize that I need to get to my friends house on Old Wire road, which is miles away and I have no way to get there. In this environment, this is categorically inconvenient.

This has been a big problem I've seen. Even if there's light rail, there has to be good supporting public transportation around it. Very much of NWA has been developed in the last few decades which means little thought was put into pedestrians and everything is based around vehicular traffic. Now there are areas that are more pedestrian friendly. In most cases it's the older parts or town like downtowns. But in most cases the downtowns of NWA are being ignored as developers look elsewhere. As much as west Rogers is being developed, the east part of Rogers with the downtown is ignored. Seems to me unless there are serious changes made you're pretty much going to have to rely on some serious bus services to make a light rail feasible. Otherwise people have no way to get around once they've reached their destination city. I think it's a real shame NWA didn't take off until the last few decades. The lack of density also makes it harder to have adequate public transportation as well. Making it harder to have a supportive bus service in place. All that being said, I still hope for light rail and public transportation system. I just think a serious look at the problems involved needs to be addressed as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has been a big problem I've seen. Even if there's light rail, there has to be good supporting public transportation around it. Very much of NWA has been developed in the last few decades which means little thought was put into pedestrians and everything is based around vehicular traffic. Now there are areas that are more pedestrian friendly. In most cases it's the older parts or town like downtowns. But in most cases the downtowns of NWA are being ignored as developers look elsewhere. As much as west Rogers is being developed, the east part of Rogers with the downtown is ignored. Seems to me unless there are serious changes made you're pretty much going to have to rely on some serious bus services to make a light rail feasible. Otherwise people have no way to get around once they've reached their destination city. I think it's a real shame NWA didn't take off until the last few decades. The lack of density also makes it harder to have adequate public transportation as well. Making it harder to have a supportive bus service in place. All that being said, I still hope for light rail and public transportation system. I just think a serious look at the problems involved needs to be addressed as well.

Hoping for the light rail is like hoping for a Jetsonian society with flying cars and bubble houses. It'll never happen.

NWA is still too spread out and too suburban for public transportation to take hold. You MUST have a city center for their to ever be a need for public transportation and there is not, nor will there be anytime soon, a CBD or downtown NW Arkansas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hoping for the light rail is like hoping for a Jetsonian society with flying cars and bubble houses. It'll never happen.

NWA is still too spread out and too suburban for public transportation to take hold. You MUST have a city center for their to ever be a need for public transportation and there is not, nor will there be anytime soon, a CBD or downtown NW Arkansas.

I wouldn't say it will never happen. But I'm also not saying it will ever happen anytime soon. I think it could work with multiple centers. I think the bigger problem is for one, lack of density and two, the current mindset of people. I think quite a few people see the word 'density' as a four letter word. But I do think you're correct in that there has to be a lot of changes if it were to ever come about. Even if it doesn't, I still think it's something worth talking about. One thing that has impressed me about NWA is that people seem more open and optimistic. In a lot of other places in Arkansas it just seems like people have the attitude of 'oh that could never work so we're not even going to bother improving our city' attitude. Sure it does make people overly optimistic about things but I think that's still a better attitude to have than the give up attitude other communities in Arkansas seem to have. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say it will never happen. But I'm also not saying it will ever happen anytime soon. I think it could work with multiple centers. I think the bigger problem is for one, lack of density and two, the current mindset of people. I think quite a few people see the word 'density' as a four letter word. But I do think you're correct in that there has to be a lot of changes if it were to ever come about. Even if it doesn't, I still think it's something worth talking about. One thing that has impressed me about NWA is that people seem more open and optimistic. In a lot of other places in Arkansas it just seems like people have the attitude of 'oh that could never work so we're not even going to bother improving our city' attitude. Sure it does make people overly optimistic about things but I think that's still a better attitude to have than the give up attitude other communities in Arkansas seem to have. :D

True, people here are more open minded. But, sometimes while looking up and dreaming of what could be, they fail to see the truth right at their feet. The costs of public transportation have to be subsidized by the tax payers and our tax base is directly attributed to the density that we lack. As long as we are growing at the rate we are, and growing outwardly at that, we will not be able to pay for the "big city" ammenities that we all want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I believe I have lacked in my prior statements is that I view rail as a great way to encourage density. NWA is very much in a change or die situation, the area was built upon ICE transportation and its commercial and residential districts where foolishly segregated. If you believe a new fuel source is the solution to the area's problems and one which will allow the current lifestyle of the region to continue, then god bless you. I do not subscribe to this belief, a lifestyle change is what is needed, density and less reliance on low density transportation.

Rail just ads a feeling of permanence, establishes a core area and usually boosts the property value of those owning the surrounding land. It is one of the key factors in creating density.

When people can no longer afford to live here, the area will/should die, remember Arkansas is dirt poor and much more income is expended on transportation in this area. In NYC I spent $82 a month to go where ever I wanted within 300 square miles, how ever many times I wanted and the %9 sales tax in Fayetteville has not made my budget that much smaller than it was in NYC. I assume you have all been experiencing the rapid spikes in gas prices.

To summarize, it is my belief that NWA needs to force itself into much denser development, rail is very much a way to encourage that development, and if denser development does not happen economics will force people to leave and the area will simply die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I believe I have lacked in my prior statements is that I view rail as a great way to encourage density. NWA is very much in a change or die situation, the area was built upon ICE transportation and its commercial and residential districts where foolishly segregated. If you believe a new fuel source is the solution to the area's problems and one which will allow the current lifestyle of the region to continue, then god bless you. I do not subscribe to this belief, a lifestyle change is what is needed, density and less reliance on low density transportation.

Rail just ads a feeling of permanence, establishes a core area and usually boosts the property value of those owning the surrounding land. It is one of the key factors in creating density.

When people can no longer afford to live here, the area will/should die, remember Arkansas is dirt poor and much more income is expended on transportation in this area. In NYC I spent $82 a month to go where ever I wanted within 300 square miles, how ever many times I wanted and the %9 sales tax in Fayetteville has not made my budget that much smaller than it was in NYC. I assume you have all been experiencing the rapid spikes in gas prices.

To summarize, it is my belief that NWA needs to force itself into much denser development, rail is very much a way to encourage that development, and if denser development does not happen economics will force people to leave and the area will simply die.

I wholeheartedly agree with every facet of your post. I did not (surprisingly) think to apply the very positive aspect of rail being a catalyst for more dense development, which it always is (this is clearly happening around Little Rock's local electric rail streetcar system). This would be one way to help facilitate density and centrality which is sorely needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wholeheartedly agree with every facet of your post. I did not (surprisingly) think to apply the very positive aspect of rail being a catalyst for more dense development, which it always is (this is clearly happening around Little Rock's local electric rail streetcar system). This would be one way to help facilitate density and centrality which is sorely needed.

True, I hadn't considered the thought that the light rail itself could be the proponent of density. But it does seem that everyone seems to recognize density being the problem. People here on the forum appreciate the benefits of density. The meetings I attended for Fayetteville's City Plan 2020 made me aware people there also found better density appealing as well. But there's still the problem of getting the average citizen of NWA to not think of density as a bad thing. I keep hoping that as NWA keeps growing that at some point we'll be able to hit some 'critical mass' that will shift thinking from the current suburban way of thinking to a more urban.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Give me a break! Comparing Fayetteville and NWA to New York City? Someone needs to gain a little perspective. Using condescending words and predicting the death of NWA does nothing to further the discussion of how to make the area a better place to live- of course, that is assuming that the contributors here are out to make a positive contribution. I have met people who think the middle of the country is a type of third world area that should be disowned.

In a large metro area where light rail transit has already been established it can be a proponent to increase density. This is happening in Richardson, Tx. where several new developments are occuring close to the DART system in the Dallas metro. The difference is that the density to have a light rail system was already in place. NWA doesn't have that type of density anywhere and until the local governments have the political will to pass the zoning laws that require it, won't have.

I do hope that the NWA Regional Mobility Authority will see the long term need to plan for more public transit. A more regional approach is the only way to afford the huge expense of light rail and the associated bus system to make it work. Planning for facets such as funding and rightaway for pubic transit need to start now even with the immediate needs of expanding the current transportation system.

Edited by zman9810
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has any of the RMA viewed this post or any like it? Anyone know how to contact the members? I did a simple search and found little. I would like to send a link to this post to all the members if possible (not sure if they would care though).

Since the RMA is made up of the mayors or their representatives of the member cities you should be able to just contact one of them directly at their city email address. Someone at the NWA Regional Planning Commission should also know how to contact them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From a conversation with a driver;

Razorback transit seems to be having issues.

Apparently they will loose all federal funding, except for maintenance, after the 2010 census, where in some form of backwards logic the area will then become to populous to receive fed monies. Since the last year diesel prices have gone up substantially, around %100 and a number of the buses have become very unreliable, also due to budget restraints the university has pulled funding.

They were apparently considering initiating a fare, where a card swipe would debit or let students on. But it was determined that it would reduce public ridership and not provide a ROI.

So according to said driver one evening last week they surprised everyone with Verizon ads. They apparently took offers for much more lucrative ads but, if it displaced the pig it was not accepted. So expect more prominent and intrusive ads soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From a conversation with a driver;

Razorback transit seems to be having issues.

Apparently they will loose all federal funding, except for maintenance, after the 2010 census, where in some form of backwards logic the area will then become to populous to receive fed monies. Since the last year diesel prices have gone up substantially, around %100 and a number of the buses have become very unreliable, also due to budget restraints the university has pulled funding.

They were apparently considering initiating a fare, where a card swipe would debit or let students on. But it was determined that it would reduce public ridership and not provide a ROI.

So according to said driver one evening last week they surprised everyone with Verizon ads. They apparently took offers for much more lucrative ads but, if it displaced the pig it was not accepted. So expect more prominent and intrusive ads soon.

Yeah this has been coming for a while. Once the metro passes 500K federal funding for public transportation is cut back. I believe the idea behind it, is that the government is willing to help smaller metros set up public transportation because they'll have a harder time sustaining it. But they also assume that once a metro reaches 500K it should be big enough to be able to have planned ahead and be able to maintain public transportation itself. I don't know if this is a problem elsewhere but it looks like it's going to be a problem here. I think in this instance having a group of similar sized cities instead of one dominant city hurts. Especially take Fayetteville for example. In Fayetteville Razorback Transit seems to dominate public transportation. But at the same time it's more oriented around the university, so there's never been much incentive to expand to other NWA cities. At the same time Razorback obviously doesn't help the other NWA cities at all so they have to rely more on ORT. Just seems to me that public transportation has a hard enough time in our area already. Lack of density and other factors just make it hard for public transportation to get a good start. But then you also have the problem of having two different bus services in the metro. If Fayetteville had to pick one it seems obvious they'd have to pick Razorback. Seems like overall public transportation is on bad footing already. But then take into account the high fuel prices and it seems like there's going to be big problems soon. Cities are going to have to seriously raise funding or it would seem most public transportation is going to disappear. I think Razorback will be able to stick it out. But I don't know what's going to happen with ORT. What if only a city or two in the metro decides to support ORT? Seems like we could be setting ourselves up with public transportation that only covers certain section of the metro core. Officials have known this was coming for a while. But it seems like very little has been done. This is one of those issues that people who don't think light rail will ever happen can point out. Public transportation already seems to have problems now and a lot of it's funding is being supported through the federal government. I'm hoping that things will change and we'll eventually be able to establish better density and also eventually have more people appreciate public transportation. I do think that can happen, but it seems that we're setting ourselves up for a chaotic period right after 2010. I think we'll eventually learn our lesson but how long of a period will we have to go through before some of those goals are set?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I believe I have lacked in my prior statements is that I view rail as a great way to encourage density. NWA is very much in a change or die situation, the area was built upon ICE transportation and its commercial and residential districts where foolishly segregated. If you believe a new fuel source is the solution to the area's problems and one which will allow the current lifestyle of the region to continue, then god bless you. I do not subscribe to this belief, a lifestyle change is what is needed, density and less reliance on low density transportation.

Rail just ads a feeling of permanence, establishes a core area and usually boosts the property value of those owning the surrounding land. It is one of the key factors in creating density.

When people can no longer afford to live here, the area will/should die, remember Arkansas is dirt poor and much more income is expended on transportation in this area. In NYC I spent $82 a month to go where ever I wanted within 300 square miles, how ever many times I wanted and the %9 sales tax in Fayetteville has not made my budget that much smaller than it was in NYC. I assume you have all been experiencing the rapid spikes in gas prices.

To summarize, it is my belief that NWA needs to force itself into much denser development, rail is very much a way to encourage that development, and if denser development does not happen economics will force people to leave and the area will simply die.

As much as I'd love to agree with you, I think this is probably an overly dramatic statement. Is the area at a disadvantage? Of course. Does that mean it will whither and die? No. Think about the millions upon millions of folks in the U.S. that live in areas that have boomed in the last 40 years, that would mean a lot of those places would die as well. Low density development is not unique to NWA or LR or Nashville or OKC or KC, its ubiquitous. When you put it in context, it just doesn't sound so logical anymore. That is not to say McCaslin, Coody, Womack, Van Hoose, and their respective councils are not going to have to adopt more regional mindsets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought I'd mention something else. I'd read recently about someone putting in a high speed rail between Little Rock and Memphis at some point in the near future. I knew there was a rail service going through part of Arkansas but never realized it was considered high speed. The line currently runs from Little Rock down through Texarkana to Dallas. Then it runs from Dallas to Austin and San Antonio. There's also another line that runs from Dallas to Oklahoma City and then ends in Tulsa. I don't know if NWA is considered big enough but I thought it would be interesting to have NWA as a stop making a separate line between Little Rock and Tulsa. Maybe even considering a line running from our area north to Kansas City. It sounded like there is federal funding to try to implement more rail in areas of the country like ours where rail isn't as prevalent as other parts of the country. But like I said before, I don't know if there are certain requirements such as population before NWA might be considered. I suppose another factor that could factor into it is the fact of the topography could make it harder and more expensive. Unless something could be worked out to run on the existing line that runs through NWA. But I thought it was an interesting thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought I'd mention something else. I'd read recently about someone putting in a high speed rail between Little Rock and Memphis at some point in the near future. I knew there was a rail service going through part of Arkansas but never realized it was considered high speed.
There are all of 15 miles of actual high speed track (150+) in this country, that is between NYC and Boston on a small portion of the NEC. So I can assure you there is no high speed track, or even +80 in this state. When the line gets past St. Louis, and before Chicago I believe the track is rated for up to 110.

The line currently runs from Little Rock down through Texarkana to Dallas. Then it runs from Dallas to Austin and San Antonio. There's also
That would be the Texas eagle which I have ridden on from Little Rock to Chicago then transfered to another Amtrak route to NYC.

another line that runs from Dallas to Oklahoma City and then ends in Tulsa.
That is a state supported train called the heartland flyer, which it will soon, or rather one day, connect to Kansas City thanks to a venture by the state of Kansas to fund the extension through their state and into Missouri.

Edit:

I had further broken up your text into further quotes but the board is giving me errors. Use your imagination to realization what points this where in response to.

Congress recently passed by a veto proof margin the Amtrak reathorization bill (Boozemen voted against it), the first time Amtrak has been officially authorized by congress since 1995, Giving Amtrak something around $13 billion for several years and some route expansion, they are considering reinstating another route through Montana which is an extremely well utilized route, it almost breaks even and is rarely not sold out as well as reinstating the pioneer route from Portland to Salt Lake City.

The money you are talking about is from the FTA and is federal matching grant money, such as highway construction for local run transit agencies. I hope this money is only spent in the corriders that desperately need it first, the populated areas of the country such as the North East Corrider, the Texas Triangle, California, Cascadia, the mid west and Florida. With all the money these areas give to the fed you will be very suprised to understand how little they get back and how deceped their infrastructure is, with the exception of the Mid west and Florida, because politicians like to buy electorial votes.

You will probably never see a new interstate rail line laid in this country ever again. It costs far to much money and far to many people will suddenly see fit to sue. With the exception of most of the North East Corrider (look up conrail) Amtrak owns absolutly none of the rail it operates on, so they are beholdent to mile long freight trains that go 50 mph. So if Amtrak were to run in the river valley towards anywhere it would be on a combination of Burlington Northern, Union Pacific and Arkansas and Missouri ROW.

Edited by Galls
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are all of 15 miles of actual high speed track (150+) in this country, that is between NYC and Boston on a small portion of the NEC. So I can assure you there is no high speed track, or even +80 in this state. When the line gets past St. Louis, and before Chicago I believe the track is rated for up to 110.

That would be the Texas eagle which I have ridden on from Little Rock to Chicago then transfered to another Amtrak route to NYC.

That is a state supported train called the heartland flyer, which it will soon, or rather one day, connect to Kansas City thanks to a venture by the state of Kansas to fund the extension through their state and into Missouri.

Edit:

I had further broken up your text into further quotes but the board is giving me errors. Use your imagination to realization what points this where in response to.

Congress recently passed by a veto proof margin the Amtrak reathorization bill (Boozemen voted against it), the first time Amtrak has been officially authorized by congress since 1995, Giving Amtrak something around $13 billion for several years and some route expansion, they are considering reinstating another route through Montana which is an extremely well utilized route, it almost breaks even and is rarely not sold out as well as reinstating the pioneer route from Portland to Salt Lake City.

The money you are talking about is from the FTA and is federal matching grant money, such as highway construction for local run transit agencies. I hope this money is only spent in the corriders that desperately need it first, the populated areas of the country such as the North East Corrider, the Texas Triangle, California, Cascadia, the mid west and Florida. With all the money these areas give to the fed you will be very suprised to understand how little they get back and how deceped their infrastructure is, with the exception of the Mid west and Florida, because politicians like to buy electorial votes.

You will probably never see a new interstate rail line laid in this country ever again. It costs far to much money and far to many people will suddenly see fit to sue. With the exception of most of the North East Corrider (look up conrail) Amtrak owns absolutly none of the rail it operates on, so they are beholdent to mile long freight trains that go 50 mph. So if Amtrak were to run in the river valley towards anywhere it would be on a combination of Burlington Northern, Union Pacific and Arkansas and Missouri ROW.

What I read considered high speed rail lower than 150, it didn't specify but I'm guessing maybe around the 80-100 area. It did specify this was high speed and not bullet trains. I know the Texas Flyer has a bigger route but the impression I got is only the section between San Antonio to Little Rock is considered 'high speed'. The high speed term did throw me because I had never considered anything in this part of the country that category. I still like the idea of having some sort of passenger rail connection to NWA. But I do take your point that other higher populated areas are much more likely to get it. Probably the only way we could manage to get it is that we were just lucky they were going through our area to get to Kansas City. A bit like Texarkana happened to get it because it was between Dallas and Little Rock. But as you said it would also be more complicated because different companies own the rail in this area.

The article was mainly talking about extending the connection from Little Rock to Memphis, what do you think of that idea? I got the impression they are planning on doing it at some point, not just talking about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Skull Creek is officially opening tomorrow even though they are not exactly done, Sycamore and North still have crossing work to be done.

But today I cheated and used the trail and a bike trailer, kid included, to go grocery shopping at walmart.

Total transit time was roughly the same as it would be to drive and it gave me a workout excuse to buy and eat doughnuts.

As for intercity rail between Little Rock and Memphis it would be a great idea. Unfortunately Amtrak's routing is not designed as intercity rail but rather to go through enough congressional districts and cut costs. I am not a rail nut, if I have to go somewhere in a time period rail has to be time effective so intercity pairs are far better than long distant trains that do not serve logical city pairs. Just look at the map and you will see that Little Rock should be connected to Memphis and Memphis should then be connected to St. Louis, this however is not how it works.

Edited by Galls
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just remembered something that I feel I have to add to the discussion, light rail on A&M tracks cannot and will not ever happen, huge brain fart on my part.

Regulations set by the FRA prohibit it from happening. So those sleek little rail cars you see in Seatle, Dallas, Portland and even the Little Rock Trolly cannot be brought here unless the region builds its own tracks that have absolutly no connection to a freight line.

For cars to operate on a active rail line you would be looking at much heavier, bigger and less effecient rail cars to meet crash worthiness standards. These standards are why the Acela in the NE weights twice as much as any European counterpart. You would in essence be using full size commuter rail cars.

Which mayorial candidate was the one who panders to everyone, I believe he is a pusher of this misconception.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.