Transportation Projects, Roads, Light Rail, etc

[Mith242]

It appears that the 412 bypass has been put on hold due to funding issues. Though currently in the design phase, the AHDT has halted any further progress. Sounds like it could be quite some time before things get rolling again.

That's disappointing. I guess the only hope is if they somehow get a lot of that potential stimulus money for this project.

[Mith242]

Looks like they'll be putting sensors on a couple of bridges on sections of I-540 south of Fayetteville. We've had problems with freezing bridges on sections from West Fork down to the Bobby Hopper Tunnel. Apparently these sensors will be a test to see how things work and could mean more sensors be put out sometime in the future to help predict when some of the bridges freeze up.

[Senator]

(reposted with minor changes from the discussion about a Fayetteville trolley system)

With the passage of Obama's stimulus package, there are literally billions upon billions of dollars up for grabs to build systems exactly like what NWA envisions for light rail. Though we might not be sure about issues like density, etc., I think that this is too big of an opportunity to pass up to get it built while minimizing the funding we will have to come up with on our own. If we don't do this now, it could take hundreds of millions more dollars from our own pockets. Besides, large-scale infrastructure development like light rail will make sure NWA doesn't lose its momentum during the recession. Here's a message I sent to Mayor Jordan (but haven't gotten a reply yet):

Mayor Jordan,

I noticed that there will be money for mass-transit projects in President Obama's stimulus package, as well as money for rural development, sustainable energy, and smart-grid technologies. I think that this could be a great time to find some funding for a light rail system in NWA that would not only create jobs here immediately but also would spur further development and economic stability and maturity in the region. Besides the massive economic benefits of a light rail system, the project would help to prevent urban sprawl that will hurt the long-term sustainability and cohesiveness of our region. There should be mutliple opportunities for funding if we approach the project in the right way. By creating an electric light rail system that runs in part off of solar, wind, or other clean technologies, we could get money from both the sustainable energy component as well as the mass-transit component. By applying as a growing area in a rural state, we could get money from the rural development component. The lines that would power the system could use smart-grid technologies so that we could get money from there as well. Perhaps there are even more creative approaches like including wi-fi access on the trains so that we could get money from rural internet access programs; we just have to be smart and look for them.

Besides the stimulus package, another idea I had to help fund the project is for the NWA transit authority (or whatever governing body manages the funding) to sell carbon offsets from prevented road travel. The light rail system would greatly decrease the amount of carbon emissions due to gas-powered vehicles, thus creating an amount of prevented carbon viable for sale in carbon markets.

Thank you for your time, and I hope to hear from you soon.

What do you guys think? Is it now or never?

Senator

[Mith242]

I guess my concern is that it might already be a bit late. More incentives could occur later but the initial plans are already being lined up now. I also worry we might have a hard time competing with bigger states asking for all these funds as well. But we really should try to make some move soon and give it a shot.

[slyder1]

What ever happened to widening I-540 to 6 lanes? This is what ARDOT should be focusing on instead of a pipe dream like the Light Rail. There is no way NWA can compete with other cities for funding for a light Rial project on this scale. I-540 is the best bet right now and they better jump on the waggon while they can. When MODOT gets its share of the Simulus money they will start wideing Hwy. 60 from Republic to Monett as well as widening Hwy. 65 in Springfield to 6 lanes from 44 to James River Freeway, and various other projects.

[Mith242]

What ever happened to widening I-540 to 6 lanes? This is what ARDOT should be focusing on instead of a pipe dream like the Light Rail. There is no way NWA can compete with other cities for funding for a light Rial project on this scale. I-540 is the best bet right now and they better jump on the waggon while they can. When MODOT gets its share of the Simulus money they will start wideing Hwy. 60 from Republic to Monett as well as widening Hwy. 65 in Springfield to 6 lanes from 44 to James River Freeway, and various other projects.

Actually what would actually happen before either of those suggestions is a western beltway. Many of the NWA cities have been talking about it and it seems only Fayetteville is the only one not as keen on the idea. Personally I'd rather see I-540 6 lanes before a western beltway is considered. But it seems the idea of having a 6 lane interstate bothers some people. Unless it would cost more money I just don't see how adding a western beltway helps a lot in the near term. Granted maybe they're just planning ahead knowing it will be years, decades even before it ever happens. But I still think we should be looking more into making I-540 6 lanes. I still like the idea of light rail, but that seems to be something that's going to be hard to accomplish. I still think that option should be considered. I don't think we should just assume it can never happen and not bother talking about it anymore. I think if a light rail ever did happen it's quite a way off in the future. But still something like that needs to be planned well in advance. It just doesn't happen overnight. Even if we did somehow get funding for it to be built right now I don't think any of the NWA cities have adequate public transportation to make a light rail function properly. But I do think expanding I-540 or a western beltway will happen before a regional light rail. As far as stimulus money goes I think our area is looking more into getting the Bella Vista bypass and 412 bypass done.

[Senator]

I think we actually have a pretty good shot at getting some of that money. Here's just a few of the good things we have going for us:

• The public interest group Greenway, LLC has already completed basic prefeasibility and feasibility studies (by Beta Rubicon) necessary to get funding, and they would be ready to go to conduct an alternatives assessment (a prerequisite for some federal funding like the Small Starts program).
  
• The A&M railroad supports the project and would even run the system to keep costs low.
  
• The UA Community Design Center recently completed an extensive study of the system and it's impact on the region. There's even a 200-page book being published about it. That would be sure to have an impact on legislators. (http://dailyheadlines.uark.edu/14182.htm)
  
• Public figures like newly-elected Mayor Lioneld Jordan (finally) support the project.
  
• Anchor companies like Wal-Mart (which has a lot of influence in Washington) and others in the NWA region are implementing massive sustainability projects, and the region is working cooperatively to find the best long-term solutions to become a "Green Valley." These efforts are already attracting new companies to the area (though we are sure to face stiff competition if we don't take dramatic, game-changing steps to cement our status).
  

Though we might not have the population now or some of the other necessary feeder transit-infrastructure like bus-systems, we have to keep in mind that it will take 10-20 years to fund and build the light rail system. Think about how much we've grown in the past decade. Current projections are that we will at least double our population to 600k, maybe even more, in the next 10-15 years. Isn't a population nearing 750k, 850k, or 1M large enough to support light rail? By that time, we better have done something, or our growth (which fuels our increases in wealth, standard of living, etc.) will be derailed. Besides, if we can work together to get a big chunk of stimulus cash, we can use our own money to start side projects like bus systems or trolley systems while we use the federal money for the light rail. This system would create the density and high-value development necessary to sustain itself. It system could prevent the need for a Western Beltway or some of the other bypasses being thrown around. Widening 540 or building other roads are just temporary solutions to a bigger problem--as more and more people move into the area and more and more people generate wealth and buy cars, growth outpaces the rate at which we can build roads. It's why cities across the nation are finally abandoning more and more highway projects in favor of sustainable solutions like rail or other mass-transit options. California, for example, recently decided to build a high-speed rail system instead of more and more multiple lane highways, thus saving money (billions of dollars versus road transportation, airports, etc.) while massively reducing environmental impact. Sustainability is not just about reducing carbon emissions; it is about finding solutions that are good investments of our time, effort, and money that will improve quality of life while solving long-term problems. Road transportation just doesn't cut it. It's an obsolete, dirty fuel, imported from dangerous parts of the world that increasingly makes us less and less competitive in the new green economy while increasing our cost of living and conducting business. If we really want to be a "Green Valley," as we most definitely should to secure the continued growth and success of NWA, we have to lead by example by implementing real-world sustainable solutions. Companies are going to come here just because we label ourselves the "Green Valley" and "The Natural State;" they are going to come here because we truly become green and natural. When all of our power comes from a coal plant and all of us drive gas-powered cars, we have to make some big, dramatic changes, or we will be lost in the next stage of development. It really is as urgent as it sounds.

I know that light rail will be incredibly hard to build. And it really, really will be, from the amount of money needed to the political wrangling it will take to get approval. I think it's a shame, though, that we would back away from what we all dream of just because it's hard. We have an unprecedented opportunity to do something huge. A passenger rail system would transform NWA even more than 540 did. One of the best qualities about NWA is that we continue to be the exception to the norm. People used to think that a retail store from Arkansas would never succeed, and we gave them Wal-Mart. People used to think that farms wouldn't become big business, and we gave them Tyson. People used to think that a small southern school would never amount to much, and now the University of Arkansas is one of the premiere public research institutions in the nation. The list goes on and on. And now, people say that we don't have the right density or the right population or some other issue that will prevent us from building a sustainable, long-term solution to growth and transportation like passenger rail. Will we prove them wrong again? I sure hope so.

[Edits: changed "cementing" to "cement", corrected figure of doubling to 300k to 600k (current pop. is ~300k or more)]

Edited February 17, 2009 by Senator

[Snaple4]

Very, Very well put. If you could see me applauding you, I would be.

Keep in mind, many of us on here have not backed away from the idea of light rail. We have just reasoned with the idea that it would be better long-term to try and develop local infrastructure and density before light rail, not to mention easier politically to do a smaller scale version first.

Myself personally, if we had a group that was pushing for the light rail system in multiple cities and if I thought that the region would accept the Light rail system, I would let go of pushing a local option and help. What we have so far is a lot of organizations doing something without a loud central push, an example is the Fayetteville High School issue with location.

Us sending out e-mails to various people just expands on the idea of alternative transportation, not just the street trolley system. And I do agree, the light-rail system would be positioned to receive the federal money, not a trolley.

[Senator]

Hey everyone, I had a couple more ideas:

• Maybe we could find a way to compromise with the Western Beltway and 540-widening groups by using some of the funds for both purposes. While we are clearing right of ways for one project, we might as well clear for both. For instance, we could run a light rail route parallel to a western beltway or down the median of a widened I-540. If we plan for this from the beginning of the widening project, perhaps we could extend the light rail system all the way to Fort Smith.
  
• I'm not sure about the legality of this due to safety regulations, but perhaps we could generate some additional revenue by allowing A&M to transport cargo on the rails at night. Besides these, maybe we could install wind or solar panels (perhaps even installed on top of the railcars) along the route. The managing body could then sell excess power on the open market, or work as buffers on a smart grid system by hooking up cars with excess power back to the grid during non-peak usage.
  
• We could also find new ways to incorporate local communities or companies by including their projects as phases in a larger light rail package. For instance, a trolley system could be included as a local hookupfor Fayetteville, or Bentonville could include a personal rapid transit system for the Wal-Mart campus that hooks up to the light rail system. Not too innovative of an idea here, just pointing it out that it doesn't have to be either/or.
  

I'll try to keep brainstorming new ideas. As always, let me know what you think (thanks for the compliment, Snaple4)!

Edit: To make it a little bit clearer, I mean for the Western Beltway route to be an "express route" between the end of the line (probably connecting with XNA or Bentonville) and the beginning (Fayetteville). This train would travel with no or very few stops, allowing it to greatly reduce the amount of time for transit between the connected cities. By limiting the amount of stops on the route, it would also prevent some of the sprawl issues that might arise if there were a full system of stations. I still think, though, that the Western Beltway is a risky proposition when it comes to sprawl. People will inevitably set up shop to sell those drivers food and gas, followed by more and more services until full-scale development occurs.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Senator

[Senator]

I had another idea already:

• Though it might not be a popular option for funding, perhaps we could introduce a development tax in the immediate area around the new light rail stations. Business owners would profit greatly from the increased customer flow, so it seems logical to tax a small portion of that for the development of the system in the first place. This idea is a little risky, though, because we would not want to discourage development, since that would defeat the density arguments for the system in the first place. We would simply want businesses to take a stake in the system that is helping them grow.
  

[Mith242]

It is an interesting idea, while buying right of way for a western bypass but also light rail as well. I just wonder if it might be a bit far out for Fayetteville. Granted things could change a lot by the time it was actually built. Too bad there wasn't anyone from Arkansas who could have put some funding into the stimulus bill. Apparently there's funding for a high speed maglev train between Las Vegas and Los Angeles in the bill.

[aerotive]

"Isn't a population nearing 750k, 850k, or 1M large enough to support light rail?"

1 million's enough, if that 1 million is dense enough. Getting to 1 million will take, what, another 50 years? Please provide a link to this study that's says the area going to double within 10-15 years. That seems wildly ambitious.

We shouldn't put the cart before the horse. We need a decent bus system, another 500,000 or so people, and we need those people to move into dense housing sited on mostly already-developed land. All of that needs to happen before light-rail.

[Snaple4]

It would be nice to have a reference to that material.

I do also understand that view, that we need more density and better bus systems in place. But what about the 25,000ish employees that work for the Wal-Mart Home office? And the thousands that work around that small area and the individuals that take classes at the NWACC down the road? I think we have the density. Maybe not in the form of residential density but employment we certainly do. Park and ride systems are designed for this type of setup. And if we were to implement a regional light-rail every city that had a large business base would make sure to support a light rail with transit. And then because we have a light rail (Hard infrastructure) density would form around it because of that fact. That is what happened to 540 (Before it was just farmland now it is developed land, sprawl maybe but much more dense than before) and along the UofA Bus system (just drive along Leverett Ave).

This is the argument for light rail now. That we in fact do have the density and that with our growth more density would form around the system making it even more viable. So who is to say that a population of just 50,000 or 100,000 isn't large enough to support a light rail and that we must have near 1M? As long as we have the proper density, the right systems in place and, the mindset, I think it can be done with what we have or even less.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Snaple4

[Mith242]

Yeah I'd say density is a big factor. It's why you see a lot more rail on the East Coast and for that matter Europe and Japan. They have significantly more density than the US.

I think I mentioned something about this a while back ago. But this time I thought I'd post a map as well of possible high speed rail corridors under Obama's stimulus plan. What I'd really like is that they could possibly eventually try to make a connection between Little Rock and Tulsa. That would probably go through the Ft Smith/Van Buren area. Then maybe a possible connection of that line to Kansas City could come through the NWA area. I suppose a route from Tulsa directly to Kansas City might be considered. It would be easier because you could skirt the Ozarks. But though the Ozark terrain could make things difficult why not add another metro like ours to it? Unfortunately we're not in the initial phases. But by the time all of this finally is in place our metro will have had time to grow and hopefully we'd make a better consideration. Just seems like eventually they'll want to try to connect some of these high speed rail corridors. Making a connection between the Chicago Hub network and the South Continental network makes sense. We just have to make sure we make a hard push whenever this eventually comes about.

[butttrumpet]

Thats a really interesting rail map.

[jllive]

The ideal situation here would be to hop onto a train or bus, near my home, and after arriving near my destination be able to walk safely the rest of the way. Now, unless I worked in Benton County and lived in Fayetteville, riding a light rail train wouldn't have much of an appeal for me. I enjoy going up to Rogers occasionally to shop or dine, but it just doesn't have the amenities to support mass ridership on light rail. The same could be said about Fayetteville. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it seems like other than business travel light rail in the NWA corridor would be sparsely used.

The reason that mass transit systems work so well in large urban centers is because traffic and finding sufficient parking is a tremendous inconvenience and expense. Also, and this is really key, pedestrians have easy access to wherever they need to go. Fayetteville and Rogers have all the same basic amenities and are extremely difficult to get around on foot.

Will a centralized, light rail system encourage infill and more dense urban living? It seems like it would, but to what extent? Also, would that growth be enough to attract the necessary amenities to create enough daily ridership to justify a light rail? It seems like the more natural course would be letting population growth determine mass transit development. Certainly, it's necessary to plan ahead and have the infrastructure in place for mass transit development and also key to NWA's future growth is focusing on developing pedestrian friendly urban cores to link through mass transit systems.

[zman9810]

The reason that mass transit systems work so well in large urban centers is because traffic and finding sufficient parking is a tremendous inconvenience and expense. Also, and this is really key, pedestrians have easy access to wherever they need to go. Fayetteville and Rogers have all the same basic amenities and are extremely difficult to get around on foot.

I think this is a very good point- only when traffic, parking and the costs of driving (price of gas) make it too inconvenient to drive everywhere will large scale mass transit in NWA be successful or seriously considered. The mindset of many in NWA is that while traffic is bad in their perspective their solution is to stop development- not accomodate it with better transportation options. Until the elected leaders find the political will to change zoning laws and offer incentives for infill and redvelopment to increase density will anyone at a federal level take the ideas of mass transit seriously in NWA.

Mass transit will help increase density but only after a critical mass of density has been created in order to have mass transit to begin with. Density and population come first.

[Mith242]

Looks like Missouri is getting around to buying the 250 acres of land in McDonald County for their section of the Bella Vista bypass. They had shelved their plans because it looked like Arkansas wasn't anywhere close to getting their section going. Still could be quite a while before we actually see it happen. Missouri's section of the Bella Vista bypass is expected to be around $70 Mil to $80 Mil. The Arkansas section is expected to be around $225 Mil.

[Mith242]

Well the Bella Vista bypass won't be relying on the stimulus funds like many had originally hoped. It can't be considered 'shovel ready' because none of the utilities have been moved yet. What I'm wondering now is that now that the Bella Vista bypass isn't ready for the funding will NWA keep the funds to use for other projects or will the money get moved to some other area of the state?

[zman9810]

Well the Bella Vista bypass won't be relying on the stimulus funds like many had originally hoped. It can't be considered 'shovel ready' because none of the utilities have been moved yet. What I'm wondering now is that now that the Bella Vista bypass isn't ready for the funding will NWA keep the funds to use for other projects or will the money get moved to some other area of the state?

Not to be ungrateful for the money that will be spent in NWA but the area really isn't getting much out of the stimulus package road construction funds. Other than $2 million for the utility relocation for that bypass all NWA is getting is $3 million for I540 interchange improvements and $2.45 million to rehab some of Hwy 412 over by Siloam Springs. As far as highway construction goes those are very small amounts. I did read that the money spent on projects in other areas will free up normal funds for work elsewhere but no indication of where and how much. I sure wish we could change that state funding formula to be a need based distribution instead of the current system.

[Mith242]

I did read that the money spent on projects in other areas will free up normal funds for work elsewhere but no indication of where and how much. I sure wish we could change that state funding formula to be a need based distribution instead of the current system.

That's what I'm really wanting to know. With all the projects that we're waiting on in NWA, I want to know the stimulus money isn't going to end up going to some other part of the state. I feel there's plenty of needs in NWA to get it's deserved share of the stimulus money.

[Mith242]

Looks like they've scheduled to widen Hwy 16/15th St between College Ave and Stonebridge Rd over in the southeast part of Fayetteville in late 2010. The AHTD is planning on getting some public input on whether it will be widened to 4 or 5 lanes. Utilities will be relocated in late 2009.

[Mith242]

It's been revealed that the 2.7 mile widened stretch of Hwy 16will have a new traffic light at the Stonebidge intersection east of Crossover. The road will also be paved wide enough for bike lanes although for some reason they aren't being put in immediately for some reason.

[butttrumpet]

Didn't Jordan brag during the debates that he would have all major aterials become boulevards?

Where is the boulevard discussion?

[Mith242]

Has anyone seen this study about rail transit on the Fayetteville website?

http://uacdc.uark.edu/books/complete/8Visi...st_Arkansas.pdf

While some of the info looks familiar some of the maps and pictures don't. I'm not sure if this is new or maybe I saw an earlier version.